Will Rogers World Airport

[Urbanized]

So you're saying people in Enid, Stillwater and Ardmore choose one airport over the other because it has a better perfume shop (or whatever)? Lemme answer that one for Chris: of course they don't. They get on Travelocity or wherever and they find the best combination of the cheapest fare and the easiest connections and/or least PITA layover. Period.

If another airport enters into the equation for them, drive time/convenience plus parking expense/ease are really the only other factors that they are likely to consider. Even building a freaking DUTY FREE FACTORY OUTLET MALL on the flight side of the TSA checkpoint wouldn't change that.

[gopokes88]

Do you think with nicer amenities, more comfortable surroundings, and better flow WRWA might be able to capture some of the leakage to DFW? If so, wouldn't that lead to better service. Competition is supposed to improve service but not if one chooses to surrender first.

No. It's such a stupid idea I shouldn't even respond to it. We would capture very little to no leakage. For starters the people that leak to DFW do it because either flights or price.
There is very little we can do, basically nothing, to get the flight schedule that DFW offers. DFW is the 7th largest CSA in the country. (7.2 million and growing at an insane 5.7%) Even if they weren't a hub, they would still have a ton more flights then us. They have the population for that. Add in the fact the DFW metro has a tremendous amount of HQs for companies and there's a reason their airport has 69 million passengers.
Second if a flight out of Dallas is cheaper and someone is willing to drive 7 hours and 360 miles round trip to book it, I seriously f'in doubt more comfortable surroundings is going to change their mind. What planet do you live on? If someone is that budget careful, an improved flow of the airport isn't even going to cross their mind. I work with cheap people all day everyday, I can assure you when someone makes it completely about price the only thing on their mind is $. You're trying to sell a Mercedes to someone who only thinks about the depreciation cars take.

Let's say I'm wrong about all that (I'm not but let's say ok in JTF's fantasy someone decides well it has 2 starbucks now, so I'll stay in OKC) Your whole premise of lets get more of the leakage from DFW still isn't going to work. Spending all this money to make you happy isn't going to lower prices at WRWA it's going to raise them. Rents will go up and so will landing fees to pay for the stupid new airport. Those fees will be passed to customers and make WRWA flights more expensive. So in reality your idea would cause more leakage not less.

Third unless you have some actual numbers on leakage it's stupid to even bring it up. The business side of my brain says very few people like to add to the stress of flying by adding a 3.5 hour drive on the front and backside of the flight. Oh don't forget parking in the DFW garages is substantially more expensive and one wreck on a Dallas freeway at the wrong time and that 3.5 hour drive becomes 4-5 easily. The leakage number is so small we would spend a billion to save a million, but JTF would be happy....oh wait no he wouldn't he generally dislikes everything OKC.

Have you ever seen the Simpsons episode Marge vs. the monorail? You're the person always proposing to build the monorail despite every economic fact screaming the opposite and the city not having the money to do it. Then you just strawman everyone and say stupid things like, well guess we will never be great.

I love WRWA, it's clean, security takes 10 minutes tops, parking is cheap, and I'm usually a connecting flight away from just about anywhere. (Thanks Dallas, Chicago, SF)

[Just the facts]

So now we are just talking in circles so what's the point? It's your airport so you can live with. I just have to tolerate it.

[Just the facts]

Gopokess88 - you do understand I am the only person saying OKC can be great. The rest seem to be saying OKC is already good enough and trying to be better is a waste of money - including you.

[bradh]

I don't think anyone ever said we have to stop at "good enough." We just don't believe in your ideas for becoming great.

If we're improving anything at the airport, I'm all for improvements noted behind the scenes that seem more urgent per catch22.

[Just the facts]

I don't think anyone ever said we have to stop at "good enough." We just don't believe in your ideas for becoming great.

If we're improving anything at the airport, I'm all for improvements noted behind the scenes that seem more urgent per catch22.

Are you sure because I got the distinct impression that most people are happy with it right now. If not, then what has the last 30 posts been about?

As for my ideas, there needs to be at least 20 more feet between the check-in lines and the outter wall so people can move freely in the terminal. How can that possibly be done in the current structure? One shouldn't have to cut through an adjacent airlines check-in line to get to security, but I have to do it every single time. I have personally heard people say, "This is ridiculous.", and go outside to get to security.

[bradh]

Are you sure because I got the distinct impression that most people are happy with it right now. If not, then what has the last 30 posts been about?

As for my ideas, there needs to be at least 20 more feet between the check-in lines and the outter wall so people can move freely in the terminal. How can that possibly be done in the current structure? One shouldn't have to cut through an adjacent airlines check-in line to get to security, but I have to do it every single time. I have personally heard people say, "This is ridiculous.", and go outside to get to security.

Just means we see there are bigger fish to fry right now in OKC.

And I agree with your point about the lines, or what they should do is force each carrier to put up the retractable aisle deals (real technical term there lol) and force people to maze their way through them before they get to a counter. Right now you are correct it's an absolute CF. United being where they are though is causing some of that, they should have kept them down where CO was.

[Just the facts]

Another issue I see people, including myself, have is navigating that right turn as soon one enters the front doors to go through the second set of doors. Making that turn with 2 or 3 pieces of luggage isn't the easiest thing to do. Of course, they couldn't make it go straight if they wanted to because the escalator is in the way.

[catch22]

OKC is an attractive, yet functionally awkward airport.

I really do enjoy the aesthetics of the terminal and concourse.

I just think the parking garages are an eyesore, and the functionality of the airport behind the scenes lacks other airports due to the small size of the former terminal building which they bolted the current glass/stone architecture to.

Also, the tile floor is incredibly noisy. While I understand the airport's decision to go with tile, as it is cheaper to maintain than carpet, it is very noisy. Bag wheels "click-click-click" on it for hundreds of steps, multiplied by 100's of people at a time. The hard surface reflects the noise, there is nothing "soft" to absorb any noise. Overhead announcements, loud shoes (heels), baggage wheels, and people talking all create a busy, flustering sound which does not allow one to relax.

PDX uses the carpet approach, and for an airport with 4 times as many passengers, it is very quiet in the concourse. I can reliably get a good 3-4 hours of uninterrupted naptime in the concourse between shifts at work, with 4 times as many people walking around. The carpet simply absorbs the "busy" noise.

As Kerry mentioned, placement of escalators and elevators is very short-sighted, with meaningful impacts on the flow of the concourse. The terminal expansion study/survey specifically mentioned this as an issue. One of the elevators reduces the terminal lobby/checkin area by 50% in an area, which creates a large bottleneck for passenger flow. It also impacts sight-lines: you cannot see past it to see signage or check-in counters on the opposite side. It does confuse many people.

[gopokes88]

Gopokess88 - you do understand I am the only person saying OKC can be great. The rest seem to be saying OKC is already good enough and trying to be better is a waste of money - including you.

We have vastly different definitions of "great"

[ljbab728]

I guess I don't get it. I said WRWA was the airport OKC citizens deserve (and really I think the people of OKC deserve a better airport) and ljbab728 said it was a better airport than the people of OKC deserve - and you are directing your comment to me?

That's absolutely not what I said, Kerry.

[Just the facts]

That's absolutely not what I said, Kerry.

It is entirely possible I misunderstood your comment in the context of the discussion at that point.

http://www.okctalk.com/transportatio...tml#post905329

[Josh Ryan]

The OCAT meeting this morning might be of interest to you. The conceptual design for our terminal expansion project will be presented at the top of the meeting. Starts at 9AM.

Here is a link to City Channel 20 on YouTube.

[HangryHippo]

I was pretty surprised by the striking difference between the old airport design and what they've designed for the new addition.

[Josh Ryan]

If you missed the presentation this morning regarding the terminal expansion conceptual design, you can scroll back about an 1 hour and 40 minutes (currently) on the Channel 20 live stream to view it.

[Josh Ryan]

Those concerns have been expressed to the architects and consultants. We definitely don't want to create a feeling of old concourse/new concourse. We've asked them to make the transitions between the finishes as seamless as possible.

[Josh Ryan]

Today's OCAT Meeting has been loaded to our YouTube channel. Here is a link to the terminal expansion presentation. The design includes the return of a public access observation deck.

[catch22]

Today's OCAT Meeting has been loaded to our YouTube channel. Here is a link to the terminal expansion presentation. The design includes the return of a public access observation deck.

That's great news. Glad to see my pressuring the airport over the past 10 years has had some impact, I hope. Too late for me to use, but glad to see it return.

[catch22]

[Bellaboo]

Very Nice ! Now if they can continue back to the west some day.

[Just the facts]

So am I to understand that they are going to scale the new wing down so as to not make the existing part look bad?

[ljbab728]

So am I to understand that they are going to scale the new wing down so as to not make the existing part look bad?

That certainly isn't my understanding. It sounds like they just want it to fit in when the design of the rest of the building as much as possible.

[catch22]

So am I to understand that they are going to scale the new wing down so as to not make the existing part look bad?

No, there is not enough demand to build the full 9 gate extension. This is a two phase expansion.

[ljbab728]

No, there is not enough demand to build the full 9 gate extension. This is a two phase expansion.

I don't think that is what Kerry was referring to. I believe it was about these two comments.

I was pretty surprised by the striking difference between the old airport design and what they've designed for the new addition.

Those concerns have been expressed to the architects and consultants. We definitely don't want to create a feeling of old concourse/new concourse. We've asked them to make the transitions between the finishes as seamless as possible.

It will actually mirror the current west wing better when the second phase is complete.

[mugofbeer]

I hope this expansion goes through. I think much of the problem with Frontier Airlines was having their gate so far away. Having more gates so close may result in more Airline success and more competition.