Bringing Downtown Back -- Is quick recovery possible?

[benjenn]

I think it finally hit me... Downtown Downsizing: I think it finally hit me...

[Prunepicker]

I was in downtown OKC in the the 50's though the 70's. I don't mean to
dis Jim Kyle but OKC was never a mecca of excitement. Yes, during the
lunch hour there were many diners that pleased many diners. The Red Barn
Johnny's Topper Burger, Martin's and the Sieber Hotel immediately come to
mind. Of course in the evening there was Kotche's dance hall, but not daily.

[Jim Kyle]

It wasn't what I would call a mecca of excitement, either, but it was better than any alternative available within a 75-mile radius. And when I visited my lady love there for New Year's 1953, Tulsa wasn't any better. (The romance didn't survive when I came home from Korea a couple of years later.)

If you hung out around the Seiber, you couldn't have missed Priddy's little diner diagonally across the intersection from it. Downtown you had Bishop's around the clock, the Anna Maude and Katz during the day, the Greek's in the 400 block N Broadway where the Oklahoman crew gathered after getting off work at 1 a.m., and if your interests ran to that direction you could go pub-crawling along Grand any evening: Little Louie's, The Little White Cloud, and a dozen or so less reputable places. Not that I ever did so, of course (sly grin) but as police reporter I had to be quite familiar with the action. Weekend evenings were always busy downtown in the 40s and 50s, but grew less so as time passed and things migrated out to Uptown (which in those days meant 23 and Walker, not Plaza Court)...

With the razing of downtown in the urban renewal craze, most all of this went away. I left OKC in 1959 and didn't get back until 1962 so I wasn't around for the bitter end of downtown. It was still limping along in the first part of the 60s, but I was too busy with other things to notice (and, frankly, no longer cared so much as I had earlier). Next time I looked, the downtown I had known and loved was a vast wasteland of empty spaces.

[benjenn]

What a fun downtown weekend! Downtown Downsizing: What a fun downtown weekend!

[catch22]

What a fun downtown weekend! Downtown Downsizing: What a fun downtown weekend!

Just a heads up. Bourbon street is on the lower floor canal level. Yucatan is street level.

[benjenn]

Just a heads up. Bourbon street is on the lower floor canal level. Yucatan is street level.

Thanks for the info... didn't know that. Still don't like Bourbon Street... but I'll correct that in a future post. Appreciate the help!

[ljbab728]

Thanks for the info... didn't know that. Still don't like Bourbon Street... but I'll correct that in a future post. Appreciate the help!

Bourbon Street is great for sitting next to the canal with a glass of wine.

[benjenn]

Bourbon Street is great for sitting next to the canal with a glass of wine.

I could definitely do that. It's just their food I don't care for. They probably make more money on their wine anyway so I bet they wouldn't mind.

[Urbanized]

Try the blackened pork chop.

[benjenn]

Try the blackened pork chop.

Well, we have a plant-based diet so pork chops aren't on the menu for us.

[catch22]

I don't like Bourbon Street for a personal reason But I don't think she works there anymore anyway

[PennyQuilts]

Jim, the years slip away so stealthily that sometimes we lose track of them. I'm not sure exactly how long ago Crescent Market moved to Nichols Hills Plaza, but do know that it was more than ten years ago. I know that the first time I shopped there was about 25 years ago in the late eighties...and they were already a well-established fixture in that location. My guess is that the move happened more like 35 years ago, or more.

My grandmother was shopping there in the 70's.

[Jeepnokc]

Well, we have a plant-based diet so pork chops aren't on the menu for us.

I have seen you reference this on your blog and here and am curious as I have never seen the term really used. Is eating a plant based diet different from being a vegetarian? I am assuming plant based means no milk, no cheese, no eggs nor other byproducts of animals so is that the difference?

[benjenn]

I have seen you reference this on your blog and here and am curious as I have never seen the term really used. Is eating a plant based diet different from being a vegetarian? I am assuming plant based means no milk, no cheese, no eggs nor other byproducts of animals so is that the difference?

Hey, Jeepnokc. Glad you asked about the plant-based diet. Always happy to share what we've learned. We watched a movie, Forks Over Knives, about a year and a half ago. It convinced us that eating animal products is a major cause for many of the health problems it seems a lot of people have. Since we have plans to retire in just a few years, we want to stay as healthy as we can for as long as we can. We also have family histories of heart disease and cancer.

Neither my husband nor I had bad numbers or health problems, nor did we take any medications, when we started eating this way - our goal was to try to stay that way. Both of us have seen our cholesterol levels drop from right around 200 to about 150 within 3 months of eating this way. That was pretty cool.

We basically follow a vegan diet but we don't call ourselves vegan because it's not about the animals or animal cruelty for us like it is for most people who say they're vegan. We don't eat meat, dairy, eggs or added oil. But we don't feel deprived because there are a multitude of things we can eat. So we say we follow a whole foods plant-based diet. We try to eat as much unprocessed food as possible. And we're happy that wine is plant-based - LOL.

That may be WAY more info that you wanted but... I'm happy to share anything else you'd like to know about it. I have tons of great recipes. In fact, I even started a blog about it to share my recipes. I'm not as active on that one but... Plant Based Biased

[OKVision4U]

Jim, ...I feel that most accomplishments are created by looking forward and not backwards. Our history (the not so good stuff) holds us back too often. The Dust Bowl, The Great Depression, Pei Plan, Oil Bust 82' folllowed by that hollow echo downtown. 2008 was a year that was almost our undoing, but OKC was a little better off than most other regions.

If we all will let go of our past, we can get there quicker. The energy companies are trying their best to throw OKC into the front of the news papers in JOBS / JOBS / JOBS. They are spending billions in our local economy and this IS the time to "Make Up Some Ground" on the other cities. Our financial institutions should be "leading" not dragging. We are in the middle of MAPS3 ( Parks / CC / The River ) and all the hot properties should be "digging / pouring" piers. But why do we do things "SO SLOW"? ...our history holds us back.

In Texas, their arrogance is what fuels their economy. ...they shift gears, they don't hit the breaks.

We should have several residential towers going up NOW. But we don't, why not? We have $Billions being invested and we are NOT even close to the pace of other cities ( Charlotte, Austin ). Where are the large projects? ...several mixed used 20 story towers?

We need outside investments, just so they can be WITHOUT our knowledge of our history. 21c Museum looked at the great opportunity, purchased it, and is now planning to build....Where are the others? why so slow? ...our history holds us back.

When the large "iron sticks" are being slung around the city, it will drive all the other projects. We need large projects breaking ground at the same time, not phased out. This is why OKC is (stuck in the 70').

The perception becomes the reality. ( YES, build it, and they will continue to come!!! ).

[HangryHippo]

Jim, ...I feel that most accomplishments are created by looking forward and not backwards. Our history (the not so good stuff) holds us back too often. The Dust Bowl, The Great Depression, Pei Plan, Oil Bust 82' folllowed by that hollow echo downtown. 2008 was a year that was almost our undoing, but OKC was a little better off than most other regions.

If we all will let go of our past, we can get there quicker. The energy companies are trying their best to throw OKC into the front of the news papers in JOBS / JOBS / JOBS. They are spending billions in our local economy and this IS the time to "Make Up Some Ground" on the other cities. Our financial institutions should be "leading" not dragging. We are in the middle of MAPS3 ( Parks / CC / The River ) and all the hot properties should be "digging / pouring" piers. But why do we do things "SO SLOW"? ...our history holds us back.

In Texas, their arrogance is what fuels their economy. ...they shift gears, they don't hit the breaks.

We should have several residential towers going up NOW. But we don't, why not? We have $Billions being invested and we are NOT even close to the pace of other cities ( Charlotte, Austin ). Where are the large projects? ...several mixed used 20 story towers?

We need outside investments, just so they can be WITHOUT our knowledge of our history. 21c Museum looked at the great opportunity, purchased it, and is now planning to build....Where are the others? why so slow? ...our history holds us back.

When the large "iron sticks" are being slung around the city, it will drive all the other projects. We need large projects breaking ground at the same time, not phased out. This is why OKC is (stuck in the 70').

The perception becomes the reality. ( YES, build it, and they will continue to come!!! ).

I don't necessarily agree that it's that simple, but I love the hell out of your enthusiasm. This is great!

[OKVision4U]

I don't necessarily agree that it's that simple, but I love the hell out of your enthusiasm. This is great!

Hemingstein, ...in other markets, it is this easy in (explosive) real estate periods when the value of your project has already increased during each phase of your project. These large markets are just more comfortable with this setting. The exposure points are far less in this type of real estate market. This is what you want, if you are in real estate / development.

..and OKC is looking to fail, not succeed. I could take the same project and build it in Austin / Dallas / Houston and it will be met with a much higher level of support, ...but I can take the same idea of a project, and the people of OKC will tell me 100 different reasons why it will fail. ...is it our history that slows us down? ...is it our small minded approach to large ideas?

[boitoirich]

I could take the same project and build it in Austin / Dallas / Houston and it will be met with a much higher level of support, ...but I can take the same idea of a project, and the people of OKC will tell me 100 different reasons why it will fail. ...is it our history that slows us down? ...is it our small minded approach to large ideas?

This I completely agree with. People here really only know one way of doing things: suburban and on the cheap. When it comes to things such as having elevated expectations for projects, urbanizing certain areas, and quality of life initiatives, you can be sure to hear a chorus of "But this is not [any city not named OKC here." It is frustrating, but it's a mindset worth chipping away at if you care about this city.

[Spartan]

Jim, ...I feel that most accomplishments are created by looking forward and not backwards. Our history (the not so good stuff) holds us back too often. The Dust Bowl, The Great Depression, Pei Plan, Oil Bust 82' folllowed by that hollow echo downtown. 2008 was a year that was almost our undoing, but OKC was a little better off than most other regions.

If we all will let go of our past, we can get there quicker. The energy companies are trying their best to throw OKC into the front of the news papers in JOBS / JOBS / JOBS. They are spending billions in our local economy and this IS the time to "Make Up Some Ground" on the other cities. Our financial institutions should be "leading" not dragging. We are in the middle of MAPS3 ( Parks / CC / The River ) and all the hot properties should be "digging / pouring" piers. But why do we do things "SO SLOW"? ...our history holds us back.

In Texas, their arrogance is what fuels their economy. ...they shift gears, they don't hit the breaks.

We should have several residential towers going up NOW. But we don't, why not? We have $Billions being invested and we are NOT even close to the pace of other cities ( Charlotte, Austin ). Where are the large projects? ...several mixed used 20 story towers?

We need outside investments, just so they can be WITHOUT our knowledge of our history. 21c Museum looked at the great opportunity, purchased it, and is now planning to build....Where are the others? why so slow? ...our history holds us back.

When the large "iron sticks" are being slung around the city, it will drive all the other projects. We need large projects breaking ground at the same time, not phased out. This is why OKC is (stuck in the 70').

The perception becomes the reality. ( YES, build it, and they will continue to come!!! ).

Your enthusiasm is indeed great but you miss the mark when you want us to do more superficial things, always more, and more, and more...and less truly great things that take time. Our problem isn't not enough irons in the fire, it's that we have extremely low standards and all of these projects are wasted opportunities.

[OKVision4U]

I agree, our standards are very low w/ expectations in projects, design, & creativity. Spartan, what superficial "things" are you referring to?