Bringing Downtown Back -- Is quick recovery possible?

[Larry OKC]

Jim: There was some talk that they might relocate back downtown after getting kicked out by Chesapeake...may have been false hope though as I haven't heard anything about it since then

[Plutonic Panda]

Downtown is on its way back. I think the next line to cross will be when downtown is a self-sustaining district to live, work, and play and you no longer have to go to suburban areas for basic necessities. Some of our peer cities like Louisville actually have full-fledged retail downtown, integrated well into the downtown fabric (We have to be VERY careful not to allow developers to build suburban style big box stores with massive parking lots downtown). I don't think downtown is quite there yet. I would love if Buy for Less would build an Uptown Grocery in Midtown. That would be a complete game changer for downtown OKC.

Hank Binkowski told me he is thinking about new locations and that it is likely to see that when I asked him at orientation. I now work at Uptown Grocery and it will be a big success! Man I really wish I had the money to invest right now. By the time I get the money(or if I ever get the money), there will already be established grocers and pharmacies in these areas. :/

[bchris02]

Hank Binkowski told me he is thinking about new locations and that it is likely to see that when I asked him at orientation. I now work at Uptown Grocery and it will be a big success! Man I really wish I had the money to invest right now. By the time I get the money(or if I ever get the money), there will already be established grocers and pharmacies in these areas. :/

Awesome! So a Midtown Uptown is really a possibility and not just a pie in the sky wish? This will be excellent for Buy for Less, Midtown, and all of OKC if it happens as they will be basically cornering the market before the big chains do. I would much rather see a quality local grocery like that than a Wal-Mart or Target, even if the chains were to adhere to urban design standards.

[Just the facts]

Kyle, you might be interested in this book. It is fresh off the press and is available at Barnes and Nobel.

The End of the Suburbs: Where the American Dream Is Moving: Leigh Gallagher: 9781591845256: Amazon.com: Books

[Urbanized]

Jim, the years slip away so stealthily that sometimes we lose track of them. I'm not sure exactly how long ago Crescent Market moved to Nichols Hills Plaza, but do know that it was more than ten years ago. I know that the first time I shopped there was about 25 years ago in the late eighties...and they were already a well-established fixture in that location. My guess is that the move happened more like 35 years ago, or more.

[Pete]

Crescent Market moved to Nichols Hills Plaza in 1963.

[Urbanized]

Well, there you go. 45.

[Urbanized]

Haha I fixed a typo in my previous post and lost soonerguru's "like". I guess that's automatic so you can't change the meaning of a post and make it look like someone agrees with you...

[UnFrSaKn]

From the business chat:

Steve: The scale and importance of the next wave of development, not just in terms of buildings, but in terms of added people to the downtown mix, the types of people being added to the mix, the advancement of downtown retail, and many more fundamental changes coming will finally begin to emerge. We're looking at changes that will truly bring life to downtown on weeknights. We're looking at a diversification of downtown's population and workforce. We're looking at 2014-2020 being an era of incredible transformation for Oklahoma City's urban core, and the public will be getting a good glimpse of all this fairly soon. Small print caveat: all of this is subject to change if Congress, the President, Wall Street or the folks at 23rd and Lincoln find a way to screw up the economy for Oklahoma City.

[Praedura]

"The scale and importance of the next wave of development, not just in terms of buildings, but in terms of added people to the downtown mix, the types of people being added to the mix, the advancement of downtown retail, and many more fundamental changes coming will finally begin to emerge. "

An interesting item on this topic -- a blog by a recent empty nester who is moving to downtown OKC:

Downtown Downsizing

[no1cub17]

"The scale and importance of the next wave of development, not just in terms of buildings, but in terms of added people to the downtown mix, the types of people being added to the mix, the advancement of downtown retail, and many more fundamental changes coming will finally begin to emerge. "

An interesting item on this topic -- a blog by a recent empty nester who is moving to downtown OKC:

Downtown Downsizing

Good stuff and an interesting read for sure. What I'd really like to see is a young couple with kids blog about life downtown with a family. Like sidburgess or the Native Roots owners. So many ignorant OKCers still think downtown is only for singles or retirees, ridiculous how people have no idea what's going in their own city -and that yes, you can actually (gulp!) raise a family in downtown here.

[no1cub17]

Kyle, you might be interested in this book. It is fresh off the press and is available at Barnes and Nobel.

The End of the Suburbs: Where the American Dream Is Moving: Leigh Gallagher: 9781591845256: Amazon.com: Books

Read it yesterday from start to finish. What an easy, fascinating read. I get the feeling that in a few years, these books will be discussing downtown OKC's renaissance too. It's quite the accomplishment to build a walkable neighborhood of any sort in the car-centric West. Any other suggestions? Suburban Nation is next.

[bchris02]

Kyle, you might be interested in this book. It is fresh off the press and is available at Barnes and Nobel.

The End of the Suburbs: Where the American Dream Is Moving: Leigh Gallagher: 9781591845256: Amazon.com: Books

The future is choice, not one or the other. People will be able to choose urban living or suburban living depending on their preferences. I don't understand why so many people think the urban renaissance in cities nationwide represents the complete end of the suburbs.

[Plutonic Panda]

+1. I believe the suburbs are going to get nicer and the urban areas are to grow stronger and get nicer as well.

[no1cub17]

+1. I believe the suburbs are going to get nicer and the urban areas are to grow stronger and get nicer as well.

Certainly possible -that book spends a lot of time discussing changes in the suburbs themselves (to make them more "urban"). I think we're getting to the end of the "suburbs as we know them", not just a blanket end to the suburbs. I know I wouldn't miss suburbia though.

[bchris02]

Certainly possible -that book spends a lot of time discussing changes in the suburbs themselves (to make them more "urban"). I think we're getting to the end of the "suburbs as we know them", not just a blanket end to the suburbs. I know I wouldn't miss suburbia though.

We are already seeing this kind of thing happen in other cities. Suburban mixed use developments with a "town center" for retail and recreation are starting to pop up. The Ballantyne area of Charlotte is the perfect example of this. That neighborhood combines the best of suburbia and new urbanism.

[Plutonic Panda]

Certainly possible -that book spends a lot of time discussing changes in the suburbs themselves (to make them more "urban"). I think we're getting to the end of the "suburbs as we know them", not just a blanket end to the suburbs. I know I wouldn't miss suburbia though.

Tons and tons of traditional suburban housing is still either under construction or planned. I think the building styles will be of better quality and will be little more urban but not much outside of the town core.

Like bchris said, the future is choice and that means suburbs developing their own core. I would certainly hope an entire suburb would not become urban, I would not like that. Edmond ought to define its core and build a great urban core for itself while preserving suburban development outside of its core. This will give people a choice. 6 lane all the roads outside of it and narrow Broadway going through downtown to 2 lanes. I would love to see a streetcar in DT Edmond as well. More choices for people is the way to go and overtime I think it will only get better here.

[hoya]

Suburbs are hurt by rising transportation costs. If $8-10 per gallon gasoline is in our future, then the suburbs have a big obstacle they have to overcome. The other thing that hurts suburbs is the rising cost of infrastructure. Building 6 lane roads everywhere costs money. Building huge freeways costs a lot of money.

Eventually the Feds will change how they finance the interstates, and states will have to adapt. Those that are dependent on loads of federal highway dollars may be in trouble.

Now if tomorrow someone invents a flying car that runs on rays of happy sunshine then all these matters may change.

[mkjeeves]

Suburbs are hurt by rising transportation costs. If $8-10 per gallon gasoline is in our future, then the suburbs have a big obstacle they have to overcome. The other thing that hurts suburbs is the rising cost of infrastructure. Building 6 lane roads everywhere costs money. Building huge freeways costs a lot of money.

Eventually the Feds will change how they finance the interstates, and states will have to adapt. Those that are dependent on loads of federal highway dollars may be in trouble.

Now if tomorrow someone invents a flying car that runs on rays of happy sunshine then all these matters may change.

Once again, most of the jobs in the metro aren't downtown.

[no1cub17]

Once again, most of the jobs in the metro aren't downtown.

There sure are a ton of people working downtown though, way more than before. Or at least closer to the city's core.

[mkjeeves]

Top employers.

Greater Oklahoma City Economic Development - Major Employers

$8 to $10 gas might actually help the burbs. Under those conditions, if your job wasn't downtown you sure don't need to live there and commute for everything but a Thunder game.

[hoya]

Top employers.

Greater Oklahoma City Economic Development - Major Employers

$8 to $10 gas might actually help the burbs. Under those conditions, if your job wasn't downtown you sure don't need to live there and commute for everything but a Thunder game.

How many of those jobs are in Yukon? Or are Northwest of Lake Hefner? Not very many.

High gas prices might help certain burbs. It would certainly hurt others. Living close to your job is fine, whether it's downtown or not. The problem is with a lifestyle that requires a very long commute. Our current growth pattern encourages that, and that is something we need to be very careful of in the future.

[mkjeeves]

How many of those jobs are in Yukon? Or are Northwest of Lake Hefner? Not very many.

High gas prices might help certain burbs. It would certainly hurt others. Living close to your job is fine, whether it's downtown or not. The problem is with a lifestyle that requires a very long commute. Our current growth pattern encourages that, and that is something we need to be very careful of in the future.

Exactly. The point is, the broad brush "suburbs" is irrelevant when the residents work, shop and carry on their everyday functions with the least amount of commuting, as many of us do who live in the metro "suburbs."

How many of those jobs are in Yukon? Or are Northwest of Lake Hefner? Not very many.

Integris of Yukon, Xerox, the multitude of commercial businesses up and down Garth Brooks Blvd., the outlet mall, the industrial areas that line I-40 west are closer to Yukon than the urban core. I'd have to pull out a map but I'd guess the same is true for Hobby Lobby. Similarly for NW of Hefner, Mercy, Paycom, Integris Cancer Center and the NW shopping corridors (plural) are all closer to NW than downtown.

[betts]

If the highways are any evidence, someone has a long commute. They have gotten exponentially more crowded over the past few years. Time for a train.

[benjenn]

Hey, everyone! I'm the blogger writing about downsizing and moving downtown (Downtown Downsizing). We're actually moving in this weekend after living in Edmond the last couple of years and Yukon before that. Neither my husband nor I work downtown so that's not what lured us there. And, while we're downsizing, we're not old (49 & 50), we're just looking forward to shedding some of the responsibilities of having a high-performance home and being close to all the exciting things that are going on in downtown OKC. I think living downtown can and should appeal to people of all ages -- but the expense of living downtown will certainly cause some people to think more than twice.

Having been born and raised in OKC, I can remember a time where downtown was the LAST place I'd want to be. The idea of living downtown would have never occurred to me as a kid or even a younger adult. Times have changed that and it's still changing. It's going to be interesting to be there to see downtown grow and change and become more and more a place where people want to not just go to on the weekend or game night, but where people want to live.

I don't think I buy into the decline of the suburbs. We've had too many people ask us if we are crazy for wanting to live downtown... but I bet they're some of the first to come visit us once we get settled in, too.