Big retailer is eyeing OKC & Tulsa

[MWCGuy]

I have yet to see this so called problems that come along with businesses being built. I remember when they were building the Supercenters on Danforth and I-35. Everybody acted like it was going to be the end of the world. The stores opened and operated just like any other store in country. No crime, No heavy traffic other than those who already live in the area.

I think the key to new development is requiring businesses to adhere to the same standards home owners have to live by. The parking lot should always be kept clean. There should be a reasonable amount of landscaping and it should be properly maintained.

The way I see it if you want to live in a peaceful country setting you should move to a rural area. You shouldn't move to a suburb and expect it to be a peaceful utopia until the day you sell your house or die. Development should be viewed as something that will happen at some point.

If Walmart or any other retailer comes to town, hold them to high standards and hold the city's feet to fire to make sure those standards are enforced. We have to stop this kindergarten garbage of "This is my neighborhood mine, mine, mine and you can't play here because I was here first."

Every retailer can and will develop a tasteful store if the people demand it. Besides, the days of building big box stores are just about over.

Even Walmart has discovered that gargantuan stores are no longer necessary. The neighborhood market they built at Reno and Midwest Boulevard in MWC is much smaller than the neighborhood markets they built about 5 years ago. The place is kept very clean and the outdoor lighting is not the bright intrusive lights they put on stores back years ago. It's nice ambient light that lights up the parking lot in the areas that need to be lit. The areas just off the edge of the property are dark as if no store exists at all.

As far existing locations are concerned, many times retrofitting and demolition of existing sites cost more than building your own space. Not to mention, some of the existing developments want crazy rent rates because they are in one location over another even though there property is lack luster compared to what the retailer wants for there store.

[bchris02]

From a friend with homeland, the rumor there is that a Reasors is replacing the homeland thats about to close on SantaFe and 2nd in Edmond.

Cool. I hope they do a complete remodel of the location. That was probably the worst of the three Edmond Homelands so I see this as a good thing. In my opinion, a lot of Homelands fail because of neglect, not bad location. As OKC continues to get better options, dated, dirty Homeland locations won't be able to hold on. My guess is 122nd and May will be on the chopping block soon.

And also I see no reason why Reasor's can't be in that location as well as eventually Spring Creek. If you look at the Tulsa metro, they tend to have more stores that are closer together than does Crest. Buying up old Homelands as they go out is probably a good strategy for them.

[Plutonic Panda]

There's so much history there, and the issue is much more complicated than this. Many folks have/built homes there, when it was residential, and there was a house there. I wouldn't be happy if someone decided to put a Wal-Mart behind my house, and would certainly fight it was well. I know I chose my current neighborhood (as it was being built) partly because the zoning around the neighborhood (it's all residential and office). And I try to stay informed by any future developments and changes. Light and noise pollution is a thing, and it does matter to folks. Their concerns are no less valid than your desire for a flavor of the week new grocery store. In fact I'd say the owner of land around the site has more of an investment and right to have an opinion that someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight. It's not like there aren't already plenty of available sites/venues for a shop, as you point out. Edmond has a large amount of empty retail space, and there are some developments that have stayed empty for many years. Maybe some of those should get filled first?

The owner needs to buy the property and not put anything there if they don't want anything. This isn't a Walmart, it is an upscale grocer. They already put a bank there, there are tons of banks, churches, and single story office buildings and park all around Edmond, it's ridiculous. The city is growing and for the better. When you move to a house that has vacant land nearby, you are taking a gamble. There is a reason zoning can change.

[Plutonic Panda]

The way I see it if you want to live in a peaceful country setting you should move to a rural area. You shouldn't move to a suburb and expect it to be a peaceful utopia until the day you sell your house or die. Development should be viewed as something that will happen at some point.

This times a million. If you move in a suburb of a major metropolitan area, you should expect vacant land around you to be developed and expect the unexpected(referring to zoning changes).

I agree with every other part of your statement except the big box construction stopping. I just don't see that once the economy gets back up and running.

[jerrywall]

I have yet to see this so called problems that come along with businesses being built. I remember when they were building the Supercenters on Danforth and I-35. Everybody acted like it was going to be the end of the world. The stores opened and operated just like any other store in country. No crime, No heavy traffic other than those who already live in the area.

I think the key to new development is requiring businesses to adhere to the same standards home owners have to live by. The parking lot should always be kept clean. There should be a reasonable amount of landscaping and it should be properly maintained.

The way I see it if you want to live in a peaceful country setting you should move to a rural area. You shouldn't move to a suburb and expect it to be a peaceful utopia until the day you sell your house or die. Development should be viewed as something that will happen at some point.

If Walmart or any other retailer comes to town, hold them to high standards and hold the city's feet to fire to make sure those standards are enforced. We have to stop this kindergarten garbage of "This is my neighborhood mine, mine, mine and you can't play here because I was here first."

Every retailer can and will develop a tasteful store if the people demand it. Besides, the days of building big box stores are just about over.

Even Walmart has discovered that gargantuan stores are no longer necessary. The neighborhood market they built at Reno and Midwest Boulevard in MWC is much smaller than the neighborhood markets they built about 5 years ago. The place is kept very clean and the outdoor lighting is not the bright intrusive lights they put on stores back years ago. It's nice ambient light that lights up the parking lot in the areas that need to be lit. The areas just off the edge of the property are dark as if no store exists at all.

As far existing locations are concerned, many times retrofitting and demolition of existing sites cost more than building your own space. Not to mention, some of the existing developments want crazy rent rates because they are in one location over another even though there property is lack luster compared to what the retailer wants for there store.

Really?

Edmond Police Focus On Crime Spike Along Danforth - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Property values have also been affected in the houses that border the Wal-Mart.

Noone says new construction can't happen, but there seems to be a feeling by folks (who I wonder if they're ever owned their own home) that property and home owners shouldn't fight for their own best interests. They should just sacrifice home value, security, and quiet for the common good. This is why they hold hearings and votes on rezoning.

As for the empty land BS, that's just that... BS. That's folks who don't know the area or the history. The bank and much of what's there? That was housing. They tore down residential houses in for the Spring Creek developments. It's 100% valid to be shocked if they tear down housing to put in commercial. I'd be shocked as hell if they started bulldozing part of my neighborhood to put in retail.

I love how generous people are with other folks money, property, and standards/peace of living. They attack the NIMBYs, but I'm not sure they ever have to burden the same standard.

[jerrywall]

The owner needs to buy the property and not put anything there if they don't want anything. This isn't a Walmart, it is an upscale grocer. They already put a bank there, there are tons of banks, churches, and single story office buildings and park all around Edmond, it's ridiculous. The city is growing and for the better. When you move to a house that has vacant land nearby, you are taking a gamble. There is a reason zoning can change.

Like I mentioned, this wasn't vacant land. This was residential with housing, that was torn down.

[Plutonic Panda]

Really?

Edmond Police Focus On Crime Spike Along Danforth - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Property values have also been affected in the houses that border the Wal-Mart.

Noone says new construction can't happen, but there seems to be a feeling by folks (who I wonder if they're ever owned their own home) that property and home owners shouldn't fight for their own best interests. They should just sacrifice home value, security, and quiet for the common good. This is why they hold hearings and votes on rezoning.

As for the empty land BS, that's just that... BS. That's folks who don't know the area or the history. The bank and much of what's there? That was housing. They tore down residential houses in for the Spring Creek developments. It's 100% valid to be shocked if they tear down housing to put in commercial. I'd be shocked as hell if they started bulldozing part of my neighborhood to put in retail.

I love how generous people are with other folks money, property, and standards/peace of living. They attack the NIMBYs, but I'm not sure they ever have to burden the same standard.

That crime is by Edmond standards. Edmond has had really low crime and the crime is going to go up with OKC's growth. Hopefully it won't go up much, but when cities grow, so does crime and all of the other things that come with it. You can't expect not to see crime around this area. It is Walmart, I don't think a Reasors will bring crime with it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Like I mentioned, this wasn't vacant land. This was residential with housing, that was torn down.

I didn't know that. What condition where the houses in? Just to clarify, I am talking about the land adjacent to Pelican Bay.

[jerrywall]

I didn't know that. What condition where the houses in? Just to clarify, I am talking about the land adjacent to Pelican Bay.

Can't comment on the conditions, but yes, the land right next to Pelican Bay. They tore down the housing about 5 years ago and leveled the land, removing all the trees there.



The same thing was done on the NW corner of 15th and Bryant.

The only reason these developments look as nice as they do is because the horrible NIMBYs forced so many concessions from the developers and keep the developments in line.

[Plutonic Panda]

Can't comment on the conditions, but yes, the land right next to Pelican Bay. They tore down the housing about 5 years ago and leveled the land, removing all the trees there.



The same thing was done on the NW corner of 15th and Bryant.

The only reason these developments look as nice as they do is because the horrible NIMBYs forced so many concessions from the developers and keep the developments in line.

I'm sorry, but the only thing I've ever heard of NIMBYs doing is just stopping developments from happening entirely. If they really have made developers raise the standards of their developments, then I'll lighten up on them.

[bchris02]

I'm sorry, but the only thing I've ever heard of NIMBYs doing is just stopping developments from happening entirely. If they really have made developers raise the standards of their developments, then I'll lighten up on them.

Sometimes they simply want to raise the standards, which is a good thing. Other times, such as the Spring Creek Reasor's, their goal is to stop the development entirely. NIMBYs have their place and can do some good. What's frustrating about this specific case is that its a Reasor's, which is the kind of grocery store many in the metro area have wished we had for a long time. If it was a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market, NIMBY opposition would be much more understandable and probably more supported.

[jerrywall]

Sometimes they simply want to raise the standards, which is a good thing. Other times, such as the Spring Creek Reasor's, their goal is to stop the development entirely. NIMBYs have their place and can do some good. What's frustrating about this specific case is that its a Reasor's, which is the kind of grocery store many in the metro area have wished we had for a long time. If it was a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market, NIMBY opposition would be much more understandable and probably more supported.

Part of the problem with this, is that when this was rezoned in the first place, a bunch of promises were made by the developers to both the city, and the residents. It was supposed to be a retail anchor (department store) and not open 24 hours. The developers have moved the goalposts.

[bchris02]

I agree with Panda that in a fast growing suburban area, development should be expected. Fighting to increase development standard is a good thing, but trying to stop development entirely because there may be a little noise isn't. As he said, Reasor's isnt Wal-Mart. I lived right behind a 24-hour flagship Harris Teeter when I lived in Charlotte and I loved having it there. I can completely understand people's desire to want to live somewhere without any noise or traffic, but if that's your desire, moving somewhere like SE OKC on the other side of Draper may be a good option. That area will probably never see major development.

[bluedogok]

I'm sorry, but the only thing I've ever heard of NIMBYs doing is just stopping developments from happening entirely. If they really have made developers raise the standards of their developments, then I'll lighten up on them.

Sometimes they raise standards and sometimes they kill projects, both has happened in various Austin projects that I know about. Once the anti-Walmart group in the Allandale area found out they couldn't stop the store they changed tactics to get concessions from Walmart on store hours, truck hours and design (even though it was going in what was once an enclosed mall). This angered the more militant anti-WM people who tried to do everything they could to stop it.

[Pete]

BTW, although Costco is definitely coming to OKC I still think this 90,000 sq ft retailer that I mention in the OP is something different, probably still WinCo.

[zachj7]

How do you know Costco is coming to OKC? Or is that just inevitability? Have they said anything?
Hope that retail from the west coast is not Winco.

[OKCisOK4me]

How do you know Costco is coming to OKC? Or is that just inevitability? Have they said anything?
Hope that retail from the west coast is not Winco.

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-deve...otiations.html

[bchris02]

Any update on this?

I don't understand why people are against Winco. It may not be the trendy grocer many, including myself, hope for, but I have no doubt its better than many of the stores already in the market. If the selection is good, I'll shop there.

[flintysooner]

People like to complain especially on forums. It hasn't been long ago that "if only we had a Whole Foods" then things would be great. Whole Foods came and apparently things aren't great. My Dad and I used to watch the cows always trying to eat the grass on the outside of the fence when there was plenty of grass on the inside. We had some great conversations about that although I didn't really appreciate them that much at the time. It will always be the one thing we don't have that everyone wants. Just the way we are.

[onthestrip]

Can't comment on the conditions, but yes, the land right next to Pelican Bay. They tore down the housing about 5 years ago and leveled the land, removing all the trees there.



The same thing was done on the NW corner of 15th and Bryant.

The only reason these developments look as nice as they do is because the horrible NIMBYs forced so many concessions from the developers and keep the developments in line.

I dont recall houses on the NW corner. On the SW corner (BOK and offices) it was one house and a goat farm. Ya, strange to think it was a goat farm only about 15 years ago. And on the NE corner it was owned by a couple, their old house is still standing. It is in the area of where the Reasors would be going. Cant really remember if the Sooner Land (the Reasor developers) tore any houses down where that Bank First is.
And the NIMBYs always seemed to be more worried about traffic, noise and trash and less about look. The developers of Spring Creek Plaza and Village already had the stadards raised because it was Edmond and it needed to look nice. Also, the city of Edmond is quite demanding when it comes to building materials, ie more brick, less other crappy stuff.

[jerrywall]

I know there were houses on the NW corner because my uncle and cousins lived in one of them. I spent quite a bit of time over the years in that house. A very nice (albeit older) house, with a large back yard.

[bchris02]

People like to complain especially on forums. It hasn't been long ago that "if only we had a Whole Foods" then things would be great. Whole Foods came and apparently things aren't great. My Dad and I used to watch the cows always trying to eat the grass on the outside of the fence when there was plenty of grass on the inside. We had some great conversations about that although I didn't really appreciate them that much at the time. It will always be the one thing we don't have that everyone wants. Just the way we are.

Whole Foods is great. It has really got the ball rolling on bettering the grocery situation in this city, which I not exaggerating when I say it is mindnumbingly dismal for a city this size. As a result of Whole Foods coming, Spouts has entered the market, and Buy for Less and Crest have both introduced new formats that are a step up in quality from the previous standard and more along the lines of what is standard in other cities. However, there are still many, even affluent parts of the metro that lack convenient access to a quality alternative to Wal-Mart.

[adaniel]

People like to complain especially on forums. It hasn't been long ago that "if only we had a Whole Foods" then things would be great. Whole Foods came and apparently things aren't great. My Dad and I used to watch the cows always trying to eat the grass on the outside of the fence when there was plenty of grass on the inside. We had some great conversations about that although I didn't really appreciate them that much at the time. It will always be the one thing we don't have that everyone wants. Just the way we are.

LOL, good analogy. I'm going to have to put that away for future use, if you don't mind.

I do agree though, we had a Whole Foods open up, only to have people on here complain because some cities were on their second. Never mind that a quick look at their website shows that other "peer markets" (Louisville, Memphis, Richmond, Jacksonville, Milwaukee) typically only have one. In terms of grocery stores, I am kind of surprised how many people here just forgot about Sprouts. They have 3 locations here, am from what I have heard they are all some of the company's top stores as far as store performance goes. But then again they do well in mid-level markets in the Western US. The prospect of them expanding here is much higher than Whole Foods. But Sprouts lack the status in some people's minds, even though they provide what a lot of people clamor for (a more high quality grocer). Sometimes I think that some on here are a little more concerned with style over substance.

[bchris02]

I do most of my shopping these days at either Sprouts or Buy for Less on NW Expressway. Sprouts is always so packed its hard to get around in it so I have no doubt this city could support more locations.

[gamecock]

LOL, good analogy. I'm going to have to put that away for future use, if you don't mind.

I do agree though, we had a Whole Foods open up, only to have people on here complain because some cities were on their second. Never mind that a quick look at their website shows that other "peer markets" (Louisville, Memphis, Richmond, Jacksonville, Milwaukee) typically only have one. In terms of grocery stores, I am kind of surprised how many people here just forgot about Sprouts. They have 3 locations here, am from what I have heard they are all some of the company's top stores as far as store performance goes. But then again they do well in mid-level markets in the Western US. The prospect of them expanding here is much higher than Whole Foods. But Sprouts lack the status in some people's minds, even though they provide what a lot of people clamor for (a more high quality grocer). Sometimes I think that some on here are a little more concerned with style over substance.

The reality is that it is hard to shop regularly at Whole Foods if you live in Norman. I think the complaining is mainly regarding the ratio of upscale/regular grocery stores to the number of low cost grocery stores in the OKC metro. I agree, though, that even Homeland and others have improved since Whole Foods came to OKC. Sprouts is nice, but it isn't the kind of place where you would grab some food and sit down and enjoy it. My family likes to go to Whole Foods, sit out on the patio, and eat there. Some of us get something from the hot bar, others get sandwiches, others get pizza, or sushi. Maybe we'll share some goodies from the bakery for dessert. Then, we'll do our shopping. If you've ever been to Central Market in Dallas, they have live music, and lots of folks are hanging out and eating in the restaurant, enjoying gelato, etc. For some reason, some people here don't understand that these stores are more than just a grocery store. I agree that if you just need to pick up bread and milk, Walmart Neighborhood Grocery and Homeland are just fine. But there are other grocery stores that offer a whole lot more, including catering, cooking school, fresh meals, and so forth. Again, it's just a matter of having more good options to choose from on the high end as well as the low end (of which there are already plenty from which to choose even without WinCo).