Windsor District

[Geographer]

WABG

Newly created "Windsor District" (listed on the urban redevelopment district page for the City of OKC), along NW 23rd between I-44 and Peniel (Bethany city line). It'll be interesting to see what happens in this area. It screams walkability. I was over there recently and where sidewalks SHOULD be there are dirt paths. It's a very diverse area and already functions well to an extent. It'll be interesting to see what happens in this area once the new streetscape is completed for the area

[Just the facts]

Wasn't that area one of termination points for the old streetcar system? If they are going to make that area walkable they better start removing a lot of parking lots.

[Geographer]

I believe so...is the old route the red line I've drawn?

[Jim Kyle]

I believe so...is the old route the red line I've drawn?]

I don't think so. When I lived at 3325 NW 21 in 1939-40 (and attended 3rd grade at Linwood) the Linwood streetcar line's track stopped just past Independence, and connected into the belt line there but had a derailer installed to prevent any traffic.

When I drove that diagonal stretch of NW 19, in 1947-48, to the corner of NW 19 and NW 23, it was a single-lane dirt farm road once you passed Portland. The city limits stopped at Portland, and everything west of NW 23 and Portland and south of NW 23 was planted in wheat! Never was any need at all for street cars to go out that far.

[foodiefan]

I live in this area so am hoping for good things!! Despite some pockets that are a little "sketchy", there are some wonderful neighborhoods/homes and accessiblity to US 66/I-40/I-44/Lake Hefner Pkwy is a snap. I'm 10 minutes from Penn Square and 15 from downtown/mid-town/Western Avenue. Can walk to the grocery store (Crest) and movie (B&B/first run). Love the "small town" feel of the Post Office and shops in Bethany.

[UnFrSaKn]

City of Oklahoma City | Brownfields Redevelopment Program

[bchris02]

I am all for revitalizing more districts. I hope this turns out great. I also hope it doesn't take away from any of the current developing districts and prevent them from reaching critical mass.

[soonerguru]

This is a very effective and motivated group. There's a lot of potential on that part of town with some very nice neighborhoods.

[lasomeday]

City of Oklahoma City | Brownfields Redevelopment Program

I see Windsor and Friends of 10th..... I have never heard of Friends of 10th?

Also, why doesn't the Farmer's Market District have a listing?

[bluedogok]

My father works with the Friends of 10th group.

[Geographer]

This is a very effective and motivated group. There's a lot of potential on that part of town with some very nice neighborhoods.

I can confirm that statement. They are very committed to the longevity and viability of this area. It's got a ton of character and there are several businesses and people that desire it to become the next "destination" and place where people want to be. This group has "socials" that all local businesses are invited to attend every once in a while to get people involved with their group. Once the 23rd street scape gets underway here, don't be surprised to hear more from this group/district.

[OKCisOK4me]

They're resurfacing NW 23rd east of Meridian. Guessing this is part of the project or is it only temporary?

[Geographer]

I would guess that's only temporary, from the renderings that I've seen they'll be redoing everything... Adding a median, side walks, street lamps, etc. But it definitely could be the beginnings of the project.

[OKCisOK4me]

I would guess that's only temporary, from the renderings that I've seen they'll be redoing everything... Adding a median, side walks, street lamps, etc. But it definitely could be the beginnings of the project.

Do you have access to those renderings and can you post them on here? That would be cool if you could do so.

[Chicken In The Rough]

I grew up in this area and support this thread and this area as a "district." The Musgrave-Pennington neighborhood is a gem, and the Windsor Hills shopping center has loads of potential. But, can you describe how it has become more walkable? Last time I was there was 15 years ago, but I remember strip malls, small homes converted to offices, fast food restaurants, gas stations, etc. - fair typical inner-ring suburban development.

[OKCisOK4me]

When it comes to what I believe the definition of walkable is...it is definitely not that at all right now. There are still those worn paths through grass fields and even though the city put in their ramps on all of the street intersection crosswalks, there are no sidewalks anywhere around NW 23rd & Meridian. That's what we'll see done with this project. Basically a beautification. Also, Meridian north and south of 23rd is slated for a sidewalk on at least one side with money from the 2007 general obligation bond.

[zookeeper]

Again, with so many areas like this, it has sketchy parts that are largely due to section 8 apartments, the bane of so many otherwise nice areas.

[soonerguru]

The area is walkable in the sense that there are destinations to walk to: Walgreen's, Crest, Braum's, etc. However, the walkability will increase dramatically once they put sidewalks in on both sides of NW 23rd.

The Musgrave-Pennington neighborhood is a great place to walk and you will see everyone walking their dogs, etc., but there aren't sidewalks in the residential area, a minor setback.

Right now, the neighborhood is being "discovered" by many young couples right now. It fits people who want to live in OKC but can't find what they're looking for in closer in neighborhoods. It's very charming and is historical in flavor and it's very close to downtown, Plaza District, etc.

[Geographer]

Do you have access to those renderings and can you post them on here? That would be cool if you could do so.

I can try to get a hold of the pictures that I saw, but what I saw was in person on printed paper, so I am not sure an available digital copy exists

[Geographer]

I grew up in this area and support this thread and this area as a "district." The Musgrave-Pennington neighborhood is a gem, and the Windsor Hills shopping center has loads of potential. But, can you describe how it has become more walkable? Last time I was there was 15 years ago, but I remember strip malls, small homes converted to offices, fast food restaurants, gas stations, etc. - fair typical inner-ring suburban development.

I agree with the others have said. It hasn't become more "walkable" per se, but the potential for a VERY walkable stretch of 23rd exists. 23rd is strewn with dirt paths where people have walked and I think the sidewalk improvements would only encourage and grow the number of walkers in the neighborhood. The problem is that the current street scape and condition of the old stripcenters are so unfriendly in form and scale that it isn't a pleasant place to walk currently.

Speaking of the strip center at 23rd and meridian...I believe the owner of this strip center is a group of out of state investors that don't necessarily care about the neighborhood or improving the district. But we shall see! Hopefully the street scape will be the catalyst to improve the area (of course without displacing current culture and people).

[Geographer]

Found a document detailing the NW 23rd West Streetscape Plan....

http://www.okc.gov/planning/documents/nw23%20west.pdf

[soonerguru]

Musgrave-Pennington is 85% owner-occupied. This is a higher percentage than many closer-in nabes in OKC. This is a great foundation to build upon. These added improvements are the catalyst needed to push this neighborhood to the next level.

[Geographer]

What time period was the Musgrave-Pennington neighborhood developed?

[Just the facts]

If this group is serious they should start by getting ride of the zoning map on page 23 and replace it with a form-based Smart Code.

SmartCode Central

They can rebuild all the sidewalks and medians they want but until they fix what is causing the problem it won't do much good. You have to treat the disease (auto-based land-use and poverty concentration) and not the symptoms (missing sidewalks and bland streetscape).

[Geographer]

I totally agree. Form based codes are the way to go. Traditional euclidean zoning leads to (IMO) bad cities. Fortunately, since form based codes may be a bit of a reach here in OKC in the near future, the urban design districts have sort of filled the gap between euclidean and form based zoning. That's why we're able to have places like plaza, midtown, etc. I'm all for form based codes. Ft Worth just came out with a new code that includes several form based zones (at the base level of zoning and not a "district" like we have here).

I'd be interested to see what kind of development that the Neighborhood Business zoning category could have in an area like this. It's rarely used in OKC but it's in our zoning code book.