Classen Curve

[OKCTalker]

A retail building needs to deliver customers to the tenants, and this one doesn't. The building faces in not out, it is built with long runs instead of a cluster, it is visually cold and stark, parking is tight due to an abundance of restaurants, and there are no adjacent neighborhoods or employment generators encouraging people to walk or ride a bike without having to cross busy streets (Grand & Classen). The restaurants, Red Coyote and perhaps On A Whim are destination businesses - people will go no matter where they are - but the others need foot traffic that isn't coming.

Any word on a tenant for the never-finished space next to Anthropologie?

[BoulderSooner]

A retail building needs to deliver customers to the tenants, and this one doesn't. The building faces in not out, it is built with long runs instead of a cluster, it is visually cold and stark, parking is tight due to an abundance of restaurants, and there are no adjacent neighborhoods or employment generators encouraging people to walk or ride a bike without having to cross busy streets (Grand & Classen). The restaurants, Red Coyote and perhaps On A Whim are destination businesses - people will go no matter where they are - but the others need foot traffic that isn't coming.

Any word on a tenant for the never-finished space next to Anthropologie?

what retail center in Oklahoma City has neighborhoods or employment centers that provide shoppers via walking??

[Mississippi Blues]

what retail center in Oklahoma City has neighborhoods or employment centers that provide shoppers via walking??

Lol, that's the point...

[wsucougz]

This wasn't expensive construction technique or material

Compared to what?

[Rover]

Compared to more expensive construction. These were simple shells and common materials. Tenant fit out separate from construction. These are basic shells.

[OKCTalker]

what retail center in Oklahoma City has neighborhoods or employment centers that provide shoppers via walking??

I'll be more specific to say "district" instead of "center," and a partial list includes Midtown, Plaza District, Automobile Alley, Deep Deuce, Nichols Hills Plaza, Western District...

[Pete]

The real question is what will happen when Chesapeake stops subsidizing the tenants at Classen Curve.

I'm sure that has already happened and for that reason the remainder of the space is going to be very difficult to lease. At the same time, all the current tenants will eventually have to renew their leases and you can bet that the new landlords -- those now in control at CHK or someone they may sell to -- will view CC as a business and not some sort of amenity for Chesapeake employees.

[BBatesokc]

My money is on Green Goodies being the next tenant to vacate.

[OKCTalker]

Pete - were most leases likely on a 36 month term? Do you have a list of occupancy/commencement dates?

[onthestrip]

Pete - were most leases likely on a 36 month term? Do you have a list of occupancy/commencement dates?

Surely 5 years Id think. Although I suppose they could just be guaranteed for only 3.

[bchris02]

All this just makes me think of what a wasted opportunity Classen Curve was. I have no idea why it couldn't have been designed like a lifestyle center rather than a strip mall. That would have made all the difference. Also, getting a major retailer to anchor it would have been a good idea.

[Pete]

I've thought all along that it would have been far, far better to have not built Classen Curve at all.

It was a residential neighborhood that could have been left in tact, while the money, resources and tenants could have been directed to NH Plaza.

Now we have two half-empty shopping centers and a bunch of empty lots between them.

[Pete]

Pete - were most leases likely on a 36 month term? Do you have a list of occupancy/commencement dates?

I honestly don't know.

However, I have heard that all the tenants there were given substantial incentives in the form of build-out allowances, reduced / free rent, and relocation expenses.

And at least in the case of Baliet's, AKM actually invested in the company itself. Given his relationship with Pops and the Deep Fork Grill (and restaurant group) I wouldn't be surprised if he has some level of participation in some of the restaurants there.

I also know that Whole Foods was given massive incentives; you can bet Anthropolgie was as well.

[HangryHippo]

I've thought all along that it would have been far, far better to have not built Classen Curve at all.

It was a residential neighborhood that could have been left in tact, while the money, resources and tenants could have been directed to NH Plaza.

Now we have two half-empty shopping centers and a bunch of empty lots between them.

This would have been the way to go. Redo NH Plaza, build that out, up, whatever the hell you wanted, but Classen Curve was a mistake.

[warreng88]

I am not sure why all the talk about CC being so empty. Yes, there are open spots, but it is far from empty. The whole north side of the shopping center is full. I think the only building that is completely empty is the one across from the new Red Coyote location. There is a space open next to Tucker's. Lululemon will go in next to Liberte. And that is about it. I understand the complaint about the design.

What I wished they would have done is take out the two entrances to the center from Classen on the west facing the graveyard and put two more buildings facing each other. That way, you would have to enter the shopping center from the south by the shave shop or by Republic to the north and there would be uninterupted shopping for at least two city blocks.

[Pete]

This would have been the way to go. Redo NH Plaza, build that out, up, whatever the hell you wanted, but Classen Curve was a mistake.

They actually moved several tenants from NH Plaza to CC, and provided incentives for them to shift.

And of course, they basically ran out Crescent Market and NH Drug in favor of Whole Foods. In retrospect, they could have found a way to work WF into NH Plaza and concentrate on making that great before running off in 10 directions all at the same time.


The entire plan had me nervous from the outset and I'm somewhere between angry and relieved that it didn't turn into a complete disaster, which it certainly would have if AKM had been forced out before Classen Curve was at least somewhat finished.

[Just the facts]

Somewhere in this thread are a whole bunch of "I told you so's" from the usual suspects.

[soonerguru]

I've thought all along that it would have been far, far better to have not built Classen Curve at all.

It was a residential neighborhood that could have been left in tact, while the money, resources and tenants could have been directed to NH Plaza.

Now we have two half-empty shopping centers and a bunch of empty lots between them.

Could not agree more. It's particularly appalling when we learn the developers and architect were trying to create OKC's "Utica Square" or our version of the Plaza in KCMO. What a sad facsimile of either of those shopping destinations.

[soonerguru]

They actually moved several tenants from NH Plaza to CC, and provided incentives for them to shift.

And of course, they basically ran out Crescent Market and NH Drug in favor of Whole Foods. In retrospect, they could have found a way to work WF into NH Plaza and concentrate on making that great before running off in 10 directions all at the same time.


The entire plan had me nervous from the outset and I'm somewhere between angry and relieved that it didn't turn into a complete disaster, which it certainly would have if AKM had been forced out before Classen Curve was at least somewhat finished.

Still have no idea why they ran out Nichols Hills Drug. Makes me angry! That didn't compete with Whole Foods. WTF?

[OKCTalker]

They actually moved several tenants from NH Plaza to CC, and provided incentives for them to shift.

And of course, CHK basically ran off Crescent Market and NH Drug in favor of Whole Foods. In retrospect, they could have found a way to work WF into NH Plaza and concentrate on making that great before running off in 10 directions all at the same time.


The entire plan had me nervous from the outset and I'm somewhere between angry and relieved that it didn't turn into a complete disaster, which it certainly would have if AKM had been forced out before Classen Curve was at least somewhat finished.

JTF - I think we finally have the advantage of hindsight to affirm our suspicions that CC didn't make economic sense. Worse, when you rob tenants from a nearby retail property it damages them both.

Looking at how subsidies were liberally offered, it is now clear to me that they were given to Crescent Market until it (CM) became an obstacle to landing Whole Foods, at which time the subsidies were essentially redirected from Crescent to WF. It was understood that Crescent wouldn't survive without subsidies. The right decision would have been to replace Crescent with WF and not develop the Triangle until a later date, if at all.

I think that Aubrey was obsessed with landing previously-uncatchable national credit tenants by giving them whatever they wanted, even if it didn't make economic sense.

[Pete]

Don't forget that Aubrey had a grandiose plan to bring in another market where Crescent and NH Drug had been, as well as some form of updated lunch counter.

So a grocery at NH Plaza and Whole Foods were to have coexisted.

Of course, what they should have done is provide Crescent with the same sort of incentives given to CC tenants and Whole Foods. All they needed with a remodel and resonable rent and they could have adapted and kept rocking. And of course, the demise of the lunch counter was completely silly, even when they were looking to directly replace it... What on earth was the thinking there?

[OKCTalker]

So a grocery at NH Plaza and Whole Foods were to have coexisted.

Of course, what they should have done is provide Crescent with the same sort of incentives given to CC tenants and Whole Foods. All they needed with a remodel and resonable rent and they could have adapted and kept rocking.

I don't think that Pemberton was long for this world, even with free rent. Under his management the Crescent Market had been in decline long before NHP was bought by CHK, with narrowing product selections, mediocre produce, threadbare carpeting, and antiquated POS systems and clerks. Their only strength was their meat market. Which means another grocer would have to be found, and what grocer in their right mind would move within three blocks of a brand-new, subsidized Whole Foods?

I'm sure that the Crescent space was offered to everyone in the industry - with incentives - and they all passed. CHK even pulled the plug on the two guys they hired to open and operate the grocery store, likely a desperate Hail Mary when all other options had failed.

[warreng88]

For the record, Crescent Market was already planning on closing before Whole Foods opened. I think they might have been able to survive just WF being open down the street, but Sunflower Market (now Sprouts) opened a month before they announced closing. Robert Pemberton said Labor Day weekend of 2011 was like a normal weekend and it was usually the busiest weekend of the year.

Here is the article about their closing: Oklahoma's oldest grocery, Crescent Market, set to close | News OK

[Pete]

But even if Crescent was on it's last legs, why not configure/expand for Whole Foods instead of building new on a completely separate island??

The whole way this stuff evolved defied common sense and as I said earlier, OKC is darn lucky Aubrey wasn't booted earlier, otherwise that area would have been permanently scarred. Although I'm still not convinced that Classen Curve is even viable in the long term and remain somewhat worried about NH Plaza.

[bchris02]

But even if Crescent was on it's last legs, why not configure/expand for Whole Foods instead of building new on a completely separate island??

The whole way this stuff evolved defied common sense and as I said earlier, OKC is darn lucky Aubrey wasn't booted earlier, otherwise that area would have been permanently scarred. Although I'm still not convinced that Classen Curve is even viable in the long term and remain somewhat worried about NH Plaza.

Classen Curve is in such a prime location I would hate to see it just sit vacant. Hopefully eventually it will get a new owner that can find a way to make it work.