Nichols Hills Plaza

[Pete]

Information & Latest News

8/22/13: Chesapeake marketing NH Plaza & Classen Curve
3/11/13: McCledon's departure leaves unfinished business
1/17/13: Drugstore leaving
1/20/13: Lunch counter closes
11/4/11: Crescent Market to close
2008: Chesapeake floats complete redevelopment plan
1/6/06: Chesapeake buys for $27.4 million
Links

Official Site
County Assessor Record 1
County Assessor Record 2

Gallery

Chesapeake-owned properties shaded as follows: yellow = wholly owned; green = partially owned; pink = recently sold

[Pete]

Interesting article from OKC.biz. Hopefully this isn't just C of C hyperbole:


Despite interest from national high-end retailers, until a suitable lifestyle center is built, they won’t come

Anyone listening carefully in May likely could have heard a collective “Hurrah!” from women around the metro when Anthropologie sent word that it was coming to town. But with the news of the 10,000-square-foot store was something a little unexpected: When it opens in February, it won’t be coming to a mall near you.

In years past, most every national upscale clothing and accessory retailer has set up shop in a traditional mall, with Penn Square topping the list.

Those have included Banana Republic, J. Crew, Eddie Bauer, Apple and Coach. For Anthropologie, experts say Penn Square seemed the most likely choice, but the company, owned by Philadelphia-based Urban Outfitters, plans to open next to Whole Foods Market in a space that has yet to be built: a development dubbed Triangle at Classen Curve.

“I was somewhat surprised,” says Mark Inman, a retail broker with CB Richard Ellis|Oklahoma. “It’s a bit unusual, but I think they’re on to something.”

This departure from the traditional mall is a trend toward some upscale retailers locating in lifestyle centers, according to local retail experts, but don’t write off malls just yet.

“People don’t need to worry about malls going away,” says Jim Parrack, senior vice president at Price Edwards & Co. “They are a unique part of our shopping culture.”

One thing that helps malls such as Penn Square is that the metro area does not have a large lifestyle center that could lure its tenants away. Inman says a true lifestyle center has at least 200,000- 250,000 square feet.

“That’s kind of the magic number of cotenancy square footage, where you can attract other high-end stores,” he says. “Since we don’t have that, our option is Penn Square.”

While the metro area has a smattering of upscale centers, including Spring Creek Village and Spring Creek Plaza in Edmond, each with about 60,000 square feet, there is nothing comparable to Tulsa’s more-than- 400,000-square-foot Utica Square.

Chesapeake Energy Corp., owner and developer of the Whole Foods and Triangle sites, has been tight-lipped about additional development on that block. Until such a time that a lifestyle center comes along, Penn Square likely will be where many upscale brands land.

“Penn Square is still ground zero,” Inman says. “There is a co-tenancy of higher-end stores, and it’s a very strong mall.”

With many malls around the country and around the metro area struggling, one website, Deadmalls.com, is dedicated to tracking those, but no one is writing an obituary for Penn Square. With almost consistent 100% occupancy, it continues to be one of the healthiest malls in the region, and is hardly gathering cobwebs, says Alison Oshel, director of community redevelopment for the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber.

On the heels of the Anthropologie announcement, Penn Square picked up two additional national tenants: women’s retailer

Apricot Lane is set to open in August, and Fossil, known for its watches, handbags and apparel, is set to open in September.

With Penn Square staying full, it provides a stumbling block for the chamber’s efforts to lure additional upscale retailers. Oshel says there is plenty of interest, but few options for retailers looking to open shop here. She says if the Triangle is developed with additional retail, there would be no problem filling that future space. It is located just west of the Chesapeake campus at N.W. 63rd Street and Western Avenue.

“If Chesapeake would develop all the land it has for retail, we could fill it up,” she says. “We’ve got that much interest.”

Parrack says, at some point in the near future, developers may need to begin looking at building a large lifestyle center here. For now, he says nothing is in the works. With financing hard to acquire and retail just rebounding from the recession, a lifestyle center will be needed, but where it would be, and who would pay for it are questions that remain.

“If we’re going to attract more highend retailers, we’re going to need a project built that is of the quality and in a location to satisfy the needs of those kinds of retailers,” he says.

[Pete]

If CHK can get the city of NH on board, I could see a fantastic lifestyle center on the site of NH Plaza, with underground parking, tons of plazas and water features and an updated take on tudor architecture, as a call-back to what is currently in the south section.

There is plenty of room, about the same size as Utica Square if you bulldoze the surrounding condos (mostly owned by CHK already).

There are tons of national retailers that have not yet come to town, so plenty of opportunity to make this a real shopping destination. I could see a smaller Nordstrom or Bloomingdales, Barneys Co-op, Crate & Barrel, Restoration Hardware, plus some of the better restaurant chains. You just know that sort of lineup and setting would be wildly successful at that location.

[BG918]

If CHK can get the city of NH on board, I could see a fantastic lifestyle center on the site of NH Plaza, with underground parking, tons of plazas and water features and an updated take on tudor architecture, as a call-back to what is currently in the south section.

There is plenty of room, about the same size as Utica Square if you bulldoze the surrounding condos (mostly owned by CHK already).

There are tons of national retailers that have not yet come to town, so plenty of opportunity to make this a real shopping destination. I could see a smaller Nordstrom or Bloomingdales, Barneys Co-op, Crate & Barrel, Restoration Hardware, plus some of the better restaurant chains. You just know that sort of lineup and setting would be wildly successful at that location.

Agree, I've thought the same thing for several years as I watched CHK redevelop that area. A mini-CHK campus with retail instead of offices on the site of NH Plaza would be very cool. Hopefully it would be more urban than Classen Curve.

[Pete]

I think CHK is still planning to make this happen and may end up moving many of the existing NH Plaza tenants to CC or the Triangle, then make that site for the big boys.

I'm sure they are still working behind the scenes to relocate NH City Hall to the church property and to get residents on board. Even if those hurdles are cleared, the timing isn't quite right due to the national economy and the state of most high-end retailers.

Another year and maybe we'll see a big announcement. They have close to $100 million already invested in NH Plaza and the adjoining condo complexes and didn't spend all that money to leave things as is.

[Spartan]

I think CHK is still planning to make this happen and may end up moving many of the existing NH Plaza tenants to CC or the Triangle, then make that site for the big boys.

I'm sure they are still working behind the scenes to relocate NH City Hall to the church property and to get residents on board. Even if those hurdles are cleared, the timing isn't quite right due to the national economy and the state of most high-end retailers.

Another year and maybe we'll see a big announcement. They have close to $100 million already invested in NH Plaza and the adjoining condo complexes and didn't spend all that money to leave things as is.

I have heard this possibility phrased as "bringing NH to their knees," because they can be very wealthy, but they are still reliant on sales tax just as anyone else. CC is in OKC proper.

[Pete]

I think I mentioned in another thread that CHK could really cripple the city of NH by driving out the NH Plaza tenants.

I believe that is their sole source of sales tax, with the possible exception of OKC Golf & CC.

[soonerguru]

I think I mentioned in another thread that CHK could really cripple the city of NH by driving out the NH Plaza tenants.

I believe that is their sole source of sales tax, with the possible exception of OKC Golf & CC.

Not to pick on NH, but that would be mildly amusing.

[Pete]

The converse to this, of course, is that a completely redeveloped and expanded NH Plaza would bring in infinitely more sales tax revenue.

No matter how you look at it, CHK has plenty of leverage here. I'm sure this is going to happen and probably sooner rather than later.

[Spartan]

Not to pick on NH, but that would be mildly amusing.

Oh it would totally serve them right. A lot of informed observers around town wouldn't even be able to help but to laugh. A lot.

[Pete]

Just researched this and since CHK bought NH Plaza in 2006, sales tax revenues have gone down for the city of NH.

That has to be at least partially due to closing the gas station on the corner of 63rd & Western. But more recently, several tenants have moved from the plaza to CC.

[Spartan]

That's not even a fraction of how much hurt Chesapeake could cause them.

It's so strange, because if I lived in Nichols Hills, I would be extremely excited about this possibility. I would even be working with the city and CHK, volunteering as much time and organizing as many neighbors as possible, to be involved in the process and improve the livability of the project. Nichols Hills could use a new downtown, and that could be a very exciting opportunity for the region.

But I guess I can't even comprehend the NIMBY extremists to begin with. Just oppose everything, anything, for the sake of it? Gee, hope that's not how people see me..

[betts]

I think I mentioned in another thread that CHK could really cripple the city of NH by driving out the NH Plaza tenants.

I believe that is their sole source of sales tax, with the possible exception of OKC Golf & CC.

That is true. They make money on water as well, but it has always seemed kind of shocking that the massive property taxes people pay there go to the county and NH doesn't get a penny of it.

[bluedogok]

But I guess I can't even comprehend the NIMBY extremists to begin with. Just oppose everything, anything, for the sake of it? Gee, hope that's not how people see me..

Here's a blog piece about NIMBY's
NIMBY Nation: Mad as hell and I don’t blame ‘em. For now.

We have had them make inroads into the Austin City Council again, now they are trying to kill the new water treatment plant already under construction out near Lake Travis. Killing it now would end up costing the City of Austin something like $350 Million. Some say these are the same people who blocked any kind of highway construction in the Austin area years ago in the line of thinking that if traffic got so bad here no one would want to move here....now they think they can do that with water.

[Pete]

This may be heresy to some, but the current state of NH Plaza is nothing worth protecting. The north section is down-right ugly and the south section has some charm but there isn't much to it and it isn't that special IMO. I think the only place in the plaza I've ever been more than once is the Coach House.

I realize the people that live there want to preserve the status quo but really they don't have a lot to lose and so much to gain. It's not like CHK doesn't have the money to do things right.

[Spartan]

Or the will.

[betts]

This may be heresy to some, but the current state of NH Plaza is nothing worth protecting. The north section is down-right ugly and the south section has some charm but there isn't much to it and it isn't that special IMO. I think the only place in the plaza I've ever been more than once is the Coach House.

I realize the people that live there want to preserve the status quo but really they don't have a lot to lose and so much to gain. It's not like CHK doesn't have the money to do things right.

Like many small "towns" there are people who are opposed to change of any sort. They're the ones who turn out en masse any time there's something new being discussed and they can make a lot of noise. There are older people who have lived in Nichols Hills all their lives and they worry about traffic and everything else you could imagine. They don't think far enough into the future to see how losing all that sales tax revenue will hurt Nichols Hills, although they're the first ones to call the NH police if they see someone "odd" in the neighborhood. The police blotter in the Friday paper that covers NH is hysterical. "Notified of strange person walking into neighbor's back yard. Police checked and it was the yard man."

I agree that the north side could go away and the architectural world might breathe a sigh of relief. However, there are some great stores on that side: Bebe's, Gretta Sloane, Luxe, Curtain Exchange and of course Chica's, Saturn Grill and Starbucks. CK and Co is about the only store now on the south side, along with the drugstore and Crescent Market. If Crescent Market moves (which it's hard to believe will not happen when WF opens or soon thereafter, I wouldn't be shocked to see CK and Co either move to CC or the north side and some renovation begin on the south. The plans I saw were for a three story Tudor design (which pays homage to GA Nichols' original designs) that reminded me of Liberty of London. He might have better luck with a three story building on the south side, since it doesn't back up to people's back yards. It will be interesting to see if he does a piecemeal renovation, because he is allowing stores to move to the north side. Curtain Exchange is in the process of doing so right now. I also know that leases for offices on the south side are not being renewed, as I have a friend who has one with about two years to go and he's been told it won't be renewed.

[Pete]

Thanks for that great insight, betts.

I assume the plans you saw included taking out most of the surrounding condos and opening up the south section to 63rd?


This shouldn't be that hard to make work for everyone involved. As mentioned, merely consolidate the remaining south tenants to the north or CC, then lay waste to pretty much everything but the north section and rebuild from the ground up. Then, the north section could get it's turn.

The good news is that the plaza is already two levels pretty much all the way around, so that would make it easier for them to build something with at least some height. As for residences, those could be built across 63rd or Western within easy walking distance; they don't necessarily need to be part of the plaza, especially since that seems to be a sticking point with NH.

[windowphobe]

...it has always seemed kind of shocking that the massive property taxes people pay there go to the county and NH doesn't get a penny of it.

Actually, they get 26.54 mills, compared with Oklahoma City's 15.91.

Then again, by law, any property tax dollars that go to the cities have to go to debt service, so what they can do with it is decidedly limited.

[betts]

Hmmm. The police chief of NH told me that all the property taxes go to the county. Maybe he means the spendable dollars.

[Pete]

betts, can you give a full description of the CHK plans for NH Plaza?

[betts]

It was several years ago, and I don't know how much has changed. Also, my memory has never been great. I remember that they were planning to acquire the south side of the street just north of the Plaza and use it for angled parking. I cannot remember the name of that street now, Fenwick maybe? There was going to be underground parking in the center of the Plaza as well. I'm quite sure there was still a "square" feel to the area and I specifically remember three stories on the north side, with the top floor planned as residential. The building was distinctly Tudor, with cross-timbering and variation in brick design. It reminded me of picture of pre-Victorian London townhouses, a little higgledy-piggledy. I thought it looked great, given all the original Tudor houses GA Nichols built.

[Pete]

The street due north of the plaza is Cumberland and I hadn't realized until you mentioned this that they have acquired all the houses on that street except one. Or at least, a group called Cumberland DR LLC has purchased all of them. Fenwick is the next street north but perhaps they wanted that, too. Haven't acquired anything there that I can see.

Did the plans show NH Tower staying put? Were all the surrounding condos to be demolished?

[Spartan]

Hey Pete, can you separate the parts of this thread that have to do with NH Plaza into a separate thread FOR the Plaza? We will want this info in tact at a later date, and we will never find it in a pointless thread about H&M, who is not coming to OKC for at least 20 years anyway.

[Pete]

Here's a quick graphic; CHK owns the properties in yellow and is working on acquiring the ones in green: