Crossroads Mall

[megax11]

I would not doubt that discussions are being watched by those who have future interest in CRM. Seems to me they would have someone checking out post on this topic. I hope some of the positive comments will be useful to them from a consumer view. We consumers have not because we ask not. The website they had showed a totally different business concept that OKC has ever thought about seeing.

Megax11, would you believe the cracks are in too? Blew me away when I heard that part, not so much the color.

That's crazy. I do agree about those who have interest in the mall watching over these threads.

The kind of flooring in the mall is the latest trend by Walmart in their new stores. It is easier to clean and easier on the eyes (it helps absorb the bright light and the excessive white shelves). But for the mall, I would say to liven it up with marble floors and glass railings. Not sure if they can completely remove it all or apply atop.

I believe it was a mistake to remove the fountain. They could have just made it smaller and apply upgrades to appearance.

I'm not sure what the issue with the lighting. I've never notice a problem. What is it that bothers some people here?

And as for the roof, leave it alone. Maybe some enhancements.

Glass railing would be cool. I do miss the fountain. I say redo the floors, and the brick that is in the middle of the mall, surrounding the kids area, should be spread throughout the mall.

I know it's wishful thinking, but I wouldn't mind seeing an arcade back in the mall. Hey, Quail Springs Mall has one. ANything is possible, but if it is a market center, they probably run things differently.

Only time will tell.

[megax11]

Missed my point dude. Oh Well I tried next... Oh by the way I have seen randaok69, same gal from fb on old CRM thread and I have noticed she has checked out some of your profiles. Go and look.... have not seen her here yet.

The plot thickens...

Then again, it's really common sense. I'm sure any party who has interest in something, in a state they're testing the waters with, will try and browse public forums to gauge interest or see how the community would respond to certain news and rumors.

[lovokc]

The plot thickens...

Then again, it's really common sense. I'm sure any party who has interest in something, in a state they're testing the waters with, will try and browse public forums to gauge interest or see how the community would respond to certain news and rumors.

I have done some consulting work for companies. Before considering to locate in a new area they do have people "test the waters". My point is ideas are worth money. So lets quite bs ing here and talk!

[flintysooner]

South Oklahoma City leaders lament loss of tax base
As Crossroads Mall has struggled, many retailers have relocated south to Moore.


Read more: http://www.newsok.com/south-oklahoma...#ixzz12j7gmi88

[megax11]

South Oklahoma City leaders lament loss of tax base
As Crossroads Mall has struggled, many retailers have relocated south to Moore.


Read more: http://www.newsok.com/south-oklahoma...#ixzz12j7gmi88

Interesting that Toys R Us scrapped the idea of building a Toys R Us in Moore... So much for Moore sapping southsides business.

Maybe everything happens for a reason. Maybe Moore sapping southside of its retail is what paved the way for Oklahomas first market center? Guess where that will reside? SOUTHSIDE!!!

I'll take change over the same old thing anyday, especially when it's a first. I guess southside can be honored by that feat.

I wonder if the city sees how often Moore patrons piss and moan about how crowded Moore has gotten? Moore patrons miss the roads that used to bear less traffic. I have seen them say (on these very forums in the suburb section), they wish all of those businesses weren't around there.

I guess they always say, "the grass isn't always greener on the other side."

I honestly think this is NewsOK trying to create drama out of nothing. I can't wait to see southsides future.

[Easy180]

Traffic isn't that bad now that 19th has been widened...Sadly mistaken if you believe we don't enjoy all of the shopping, dining and having one of the best theaters in the nation within 5 minutes of the casa

[Spartan]

Interesting that Toys R Us scrapped the idea of building a Toys R Us in Moore... So much for Moore sapping southsides business.

Maybe everything happens for a reason. Maybe Moore sapping southside of its retail is what paved the way for Oklahomas first market center? Guess where that will reside? SOUTHSIDE!!!

I'll take change over the same old thing anyday, especially when it's a first. I guess southside can be honored by that feat.

I wonder if the city sees how often Moore patrons piss and moan about how crowded Moore has gotten? Moore patrons miss the roads that used to bear less traffic. I have seen them say (on these very forums in the suburb section), they wish all of those businesses weren't around there.

I guess they always say, "the grass isn't always greener on the other side."

I honestly think this is NewsOK trying to create drama out of nothing. I can't wait to see southsides future.

Yeah and I can't stand all the damn construction downtown, either. Can Crossroads also please take all these damn lofts and skyscraper projects off of our hands?

[megax11]

Yeah and I can't stand all the damn construction downtown, either. Can Crossroads also please take all these damn lofts and skyscraper projects off of our hands?

Exactly... Show them who's boss. Get down there and give them a piece of mind.

[bombermwc]

I've avoided this one like a plague because I've never bought into the "you'll get shot at Crossroads" world. But I'm going to make an honest attempt at some suggestions that I think would help get Crossroads back up again.

#1 - Get rid of the stores that attract the people you don't want there. If there is a safety concern at the mall, analyze what attracts the dangerous element to the mall and remove it. Also, add some younger than 60 security to the mall....that do more than just ride around in the parking lot or sit under an escalator. I'm not pointing any fingers at any particular race/class/etc of person here, my question is generic. In my experience, the locally owned mom and pop stores are the ones that cause the issues in malls (look at Heritage before it finally closed).

#2 - Go wing by wing and start making the facelift changes that really count. Don't just paint the railings...get rid of them. When you paint like they did before, you just make it worse. They don't need lights on the railings, and the railings themselves just need to be functional. We don't have to match Penn Square in style here. In fact, right now, they could simply close off the second floor and consolidate everything to the first floor. Once it's working, open up the second floor again to more businesses.

#3 - Flooring is another part of this. The sealed concrete is NOT what people are looking for today (sorry thunder). What they want is STAINED concrete...not just sealed. Cracks are also part of a conrete floor. Anywhere that has exposed conrete will have cracks from settling, it's just part of the world of concrete. What they can do, is put a new floor down on top of it. You don't want to put tile like ceramic down for many reasons. One being the fact that it would raise the height of the flooring and the transitions into each store would be a tripping point...even with thresholds. Another being ceramic cracks under heavy weights as well...not to mention the costs of ceramic. As cheap as it looks, a linoleum tile is probably the best choice in cost/functionality for Crossroads. They do come in varities better than what your elementary school had.

#3 - Food Court - as mentioned in this thread, a food court can be a great gathering location, but Crossroads didn't design one in. They could, however get one added. I believe it was the Macy's wind that had Chic-Fil-A and Babbages??? That wing is short and could easily be altered to pull the store fronts back so all you have is the normal food court front ordering counter. That frees up space for seating. Not to mention the area in the middle of the mall right there could also have tables.

#4 - Anchors - they aren't as important as well all like to make them out to be. We don't NEED Dillard's there. What we need is something that attracts foot traffic...but it doesn't neccessarily have to be the traditional anchor. Think outside the box, and don't assume that the store has to take the entire anchor space. Split the space into the first and second floor. Something like a Pier 1 could take a smaller floor space but then still has that outside access. Same goes for something like a Barnes and Noble, which is no where to be found on the south or east side. With so many anchors moving out of malls these days, you HAVE to look outside the box. A space as large as the Dillard's area could convert to office space and house a very large number of people.

#5 - don't screw with the ceilings though. It's a high celing building that actually feels very roomy. But it needs a lighter color paint on the inside surfaces to make it brighten up and feel less gloomy.

Failing into bankruptcy is probably the best thing for this mall. They need a chance to start over from scratch if they want to survive. And they need someone to make an honest attempt of it instead of just going cheap. And also NOT a company like Simon that will just drain the money and send it to another mall.

I'm not going to pretend that it's going to be easy...or that it would even happen, but it's a thought.

[megax11]

Traffic isn't that bad now that 19th has been widened...Sadly mistaken if you believe we don't enjoy all of the shopping, dining and having one of the best theaters in the nation within 5 minutes of the casa

Well I used to go out there every Monday and Wednesday to take my son to karate, the roads really haven't expanded too much. I say this because I go out there at least once a week, to visit Vintage Stock. It always feels so cluttered there.

I've avoided this one like a plague because I've never bought into the "you'll get shot at Crossroads" world. But I'm going to make an honest attempt at some suggestions that I think would help get Crossroads back up again.

#1 - Get rid of the stores that attract the people you don't want there. If there is a safety concern at the mall, analyze what attracts the dangerous element to the mall and remove it. Also, add some younger than 60 security to the mall....that do more than just ride around in the parking lot or sit under an escalator. I'm not pointing any fingers at any particular race/class/etc of person here, my question is generic. In my experience, the locally owned mom and pop stores are the ones that cause the issues in malls (look at Heritage before it finally closed).

#2 - Go wing by wing and start making the facelift changes that really count. Don't just paint the railings...get rid of them. When you paint like they did before, you just make it worse. They don't need lights on the railings, and the railings themselves just need to be functional. We don't have to match Penn Square in style here. In fact, right now, they could simply close off the second floor and consolidate everything to the first floor. Once it's working, open up the second floor again to more businesses.

#3 - Flooring is another part of this. The sealed concrete is NOT what people are looking for today (sorry thunder). What they want is STAINED concrete...not just sealed. Cracks are also part of a conrete floor. Anywhere that has exposed conrete will have cracks from settling, it's just part of the world of concrete. What they can do, is put a new floor down on top of it. You don't want to put tile like ceramic down for many reasons. One being the fact that it would raise the height of the flooring and the transitions into each store would be a tripping point...even with thresholds. Another being ceramic cracks under heavy weights as well...not to mention the costs of ceramic. As cheap as it looks, a linoleum tile is probably the best choice in cost/functionality for Crossroads. They do come in varities better than what your elementary school had.

#3 - Food Court - as mentioned in this thread, a food court can be a great gathering location, but Crossroads didn't design one in. They could, however get one added. I believe it was the Macy's wind that had Chic-Fil-A and Babbages??? That wing is short and could easily be altered to pull the store fronts back so all you have is the normal food court front ordering counter. That frees up space for seating. Not to mention the area in the middle of the mall right there could also have tables.

#4 - Anchors - they aren't as important as well all like to make them out to be. We don't NEED Dillard's there. What we need is something that attracts foot traffic...but it doesn't neccessarily have to be the traditional anchor. Think outside the box, and don't assume that the store has to take the entire anchor space. Split the space into the first and second floor. Something like a Pier 1 could take a smaller floor space but then still has that outside access. Same goes for something like a Barnes and Noble, which is no where to be found on the south or east side. With so many anchors moving out of malls these days, you HAVE to look outside the box. A space as large as the Dillard's area could convert to office space and house a very large number of people.

#5 - don't screw with the ceilings though. It's a high celing building that actually feels very roomy. But it needs a lighter color paint on the inside surfaces to make it brighten up and feel less gloomy.

Failing into bankruptcy is probably the best thing for this mall. They need a chance to start over from scratch if they want to survive. And they need someone to make an honest attempt of it instead of just going cheap. And also NOT a company like Simon that will just drain the money and send it to another mall.

I'm not going to pretend that it's going to be easy...or that it would even happen, but it's a thought.

1: I don't think it's the stores. Without stores like the Buckle, Hollister, Hot Topic, Deb, A&F, Dillards, Penny's, etc, malls can't thrive. CRM needs those stores to really attract business, and as you can see, crime is going up around Penn Square Mall. Any piece of land or area in this whole world can be subject to crime.

2: I agree about the railing. CRM could add a new style of railing that is more modern than even PSM and QSM. They don't have to imitate, when they can innovate. I don't agree with closing the second floor though. The more stores and accessibility, the better.

3: I totally agree with you on the food court matter. When I go to PSM and QSM, their food courts look very busy and have a good feel to them. I hope when CRM makes its comeback, they dedicate a section of the mall to a food court of sorts.

4: I can agree with this as well. The mall needs at least a couple of anchors (I say this for a reason), and for those anchors, they can attract any type of store. Hell, a 2 story Toys R Us inside the mall would be pretty awesome. Again, this comes down to innovating, not imitating.

5: Again, I agree. The ceilings were fine and modernized back in the 90's, so they're more new than the floors in the mall. They need to brighten the floors, which will make it feel even more roomy. I like the feel and look of CRM, but by god, the floors have to be brightened in my eyes.

I think what happened to the mall, happened for a reason. It will make a comeback. You strike some good opinions on what you would like to see.

[jn1780]

Failing into bankruptcy is probably the best thing for this mall. They need a chance to start over from scratch if they want to survive. And they need someone to make an honest attempt of it instead of just going cheap. And also NOT a company like Simon that will just drain the money and send it to another mall.

I'm not going to pretend that it's going to be easy...or that it would even happen, but it's a thought.

That already happen, the mall is currently owned by the U.S. zombie reserve bank. (Federal Reserve) or Maiden Lane properties to be more technical about it. What the mall needs at this point is a new private owner willing to improve the mall and/or the property.

Edit: After reading what you wrote again, I think you already knew this. Sorry.

[bombermwc]

Well I was just offering some personal opinion suggestions. Obviously not a whole blueprint plan for the place, but just some ideas to toss around. I agree places like The Buckle are a good fit there. What I was reffering to are store like the "N More" sort of places. The type of places that have stuff hand on the wall and barely even look like a store....with the grafiti looking t-shirts for sale...random purses and junk. That's the sort of place I'm talking about getting rid of.

Their website doesn't have an accurate list of the store directory anymore either. I'd be curious what the real list looks like now.

[Midtowner]

Southside has the mall it deserves.

[megax11]

Southside has the mall it deserves.

Southside will innovate again, while others will imitate soon. It's only a matter of time.

So yes, we have the mall we deserve, if you want to call it a mall in the future.

The elitists everywhere else see southside rollin', they hatin' -

http://www.allmotivated.com/pictures...they_Hatin.jpg

[lovokc]

Southside has the mall it deserves.

Why do you believe this?

[bombermwc]

Define "southside". Because really, if you are only speaking of the area north of 240, you're leaving out half of the "southside". There are two very distinct parts to the south metro....but last time I checked, the precious NW side was the same way. There's some real crap up that way folks, in fact, that's one of the larger gang areas.

Don't lump Capital Hill in either because that's technically central.

So again, i ask, define "southside".

[earlywinegareth]

Speaking for the "south of 240" crowd, Sooner Mall in Norman gets a lot of our business. With the growth of retail in Moore, we don't feel underserved. Seems to me the only area that doesn't have a mall fairly closeby is the Mid-Del crowd. Maybe they drive to Shawnee?

[metro]

who on earth would drive to Shawnee to shop, that makes no sense. any of the metro malls would be closer and offer a better selection

[Midtowner]

Define "southside". Because really, if you are only speaking of the area north of 240, you're leaving out half of the "southside". There are two very distinct parts to the south metro....but last time I checked, the precious NW side was the same way. There's some real crap up that way folks, in fact, that's one of the larger gang areas.

Don't lump Capital Hill in either because that's technically central.

So again, i ask, define "southside".

I think of OKC in terms of quadrants. The natural dividing lines are Broadway/Shields and the N. Canadian River.

As for the southside having the mall it deserves, it is generally thought that Crossroads was the mall which served that part of town. The residents in that area chose to patronize retail establishments in Moore and Midwest City rather than their mall. The crime down there, presence of gangs whatever, that's all irrelevant. Those stores would have stayed open if people were buying things from them. That didn't happen and won't happen.

[earlywinegareth]

who on earth would drive to Shawnee to shop, that makes no sense. any of the metro malls would be closer and offer a better selection

Ah, that would be Eastern Oklahoma Countians wanting the nearest Dillard's or Sears.

[earlywinegareth]

An interesting case is JCPenney. JCP was one of the original anchors since the '70s. They announced the closing of the CRM location in '07 along with plans for new stores in Moore and MWC.

It's apparent to me that JCP market research concluded the local JCP customer base was still here, it's just that the customers did not want to go to CRM. CRM did not provide a pleasant/safe experience. The market spoke and JCP responded.

[megax11]

I think of OKC in terms of quadrants. The natural dividing lines are Broadway/Shields and the N. Canadian River.

As for the southside having the mall it deserves, it is generally thought that Crossroads was the mall which served that part of town. The residents in that area chose to patronize retail establishments in Moore and Midwest City rather than their mall. The crime down there, presence of gangs whatever, that's all irrelevant. Those stores would have stayed open if people were buying things from them. That didn't happen and won't happen.

BZZT! Wrong...

First off, the merchants kept demanding the owner of the mall to modernize the place, as it was dark and outdated. The owner refused their request. That makes merchants unhappy. Why? Look below.

The merchants were unhappy about losing business to places like Quail Springs and Penn Square Mall, due to their renovating to bring those malls up to modern standards. What didn't help matters also, is that Crossroads Mall owners got a case of the greeds and kept charging high rent to the merchants, whose needs weren't being met.

It has nothing to do with gangs. The mall looks uhly inside, even when full. The floors are straight out of 1974, and they did little to improve the mall like merchants and customers wanted.

If gangs came into play, I guess the rising crime at Penn Square Mall means that mall is on its deathbed, right? Wrong again. That mall is flourishing, and even has a one of a kind store in Oklahoma, like the Lego Store. You didn't see that going to Quail Springs, despite the lack of bad news surrounding that mall. It went to a place where crime is rising.

I doubt bootleg thugs, crooks, whatnot said, "oh, okay. We cleared out Crossroads Mall with our antics. Time to make sure another mall dies now. Fellow gangmembers, unite. We march forward to Penn Square Mall. We don't stop until that mall is dead. We have a hidden grudge against malls."

The owners were at fault, because they wanted to capitalize on money, while not meeting the needs of the merchants.

I don't find it one bit coincidental that Heritage Park Mall suffered the same fate, and we didn't hear about all sorts of crime coming from that mall either.

It was greed that killed CRM and HPM. They had the same owners, and aparently, they liked brown.

[Steve]

Megax, there's a lot of folks I know who would say you just nailed it.
(But the mall still hasn't sold)

[jn1780]

BZZT! Wrong...

First off, the merchants kept demanding the owner of the mall to modernize the place, as it was dark and outdated. The owner refused their request. That makes merchants unhappy. Why? Look below.

The merchants were unhappy about losing business to places like Quail Springs and Penn Square Mall, due to their renovating to bring those malls up to modern standards. What didn't help matters also, is that Crossroads Mall owners got a case of the greeds and kept charging high rent to the merchants, whose needs weren't being met.

It has nothing to do with gangs. The mall looks uhly inside, even when full. The floors are straight out of 1974, and they did little to improve the mall like merchants and customers wanted.

If gangs came into play, I guess the rising crime at Penn Square Mall means that mall is on its deathbed, right? Wrong again. That mall is flourishing, and even has a one of a kind store in Oklahoma, like the Lego Store. You didn't see that going to Quail Springs, despite the lack of bad news surrounding that mall. It went to a place where crime is rising.

I doubt bootleg thugs, crooks, whatnot said, "oh, okay. We cleared out Crossroads Mall with our antics. Time to make sure another mall dies now. Fellow gangmembers, unite. We march forward to Penn Square Mall. We don't stop until that mall is dead. We have a hidden grudge against malls."

The owners were at fault, because they wanted to capitalize on money, while not meeting the needs of the merchants.

I don't find it one bit coincidental that Heritage Park Mall suffered the same fate, and we didn't hear about all sorts of crime coming from that mall either.

It was greed that killed CRM and HPM. They had the same owners, and aparently, they liked brown.

I think you need to read Midtowners post again.

The crime down there, presence of gangs whatever, that's all irrelevant.

I agree with you about poor management. However, now that those stores are already gone with many investing in standalone buildings, any future Crossroads owner needs to think "outside the box" in order to bring life back to the mall.

[megax11]

Megax, there's a lot of folks I know who would say you just nailed it.
(But the mall still hasn't sold)

It's the truth.

I talked to many merchants there, and I believe some merchants came here and spoke about the situation, on the "End of Crossroads" thread.

HPM and CRM both suffered the same fate, because they both had the same owners, who wanted more ching-ching. More money, while spending less on the mall, while charging more rent, makes for unhappy merchants and customers.

LOL, maybe they knew we were heading for a recession, so they got whatever money they could and bailed out. They probably own a grand mall in another state, where they devoted the money from these two malls, to keeping that mall up to modern standards.