NORDSTROM - where would it go?

[BG918]

Logically I would think if Nordstrom announced they were building an OKC location Penn Square Mall would somehow boot JC Penney and a new Nordstrom would be built there to anchor the mall with Dillard's and Macy's. As much as I'd like to see a downtown location I just can't see it at this point.

[Jesseda]

is there talk about a nordstrom being built in okc? is it announced somewhere? or is this just dreaming up post? lmk thanks

[Oil Capital]

Logically I would think if Nordstrom announced they were building an OKC location Penn Square Mall would somehow boot JC Penney and a new Nordstrom would be built there to anchor the mall with Dillard's and Macy's. As much as I'd like to see a downtown location I just can't see it at this point.

It almost certainly would be at Penn Square. However, I think it would make more sense to boot the health club and put Nordstrom over there (probably by adding a new Nordstrom structure)

[Larry OKC]

Think it is just dreaming...the ULI folks basically said it ain't happening and they mentioned Nordstroms specifically...not without something like a $40M "incentive package" (public/taxpayer subsidy).

[Steve]

To answer this question: Not in OKC

[Kerry]

There was an article in the Oklahoman a few weeks ago that quoted a Nordstroms VP saying they absolutly were not looking to add a store in Oklahoma City or anywhere else in the plains or midwest.

I would rather they try and focus on getting a Target downtown as part of a larger retail/office/play development.

[soonerliberal]

I think it would fit nicely into Penn Square. There are a lot of mid-grade Penn Square-like malls in the mid-Atlantic and Northeast that have Nordstroms. I would assume if Penn Square continues to upgrade and move towards being a higher end mall they will drop JcPenney and replace it with something like a Nordstrom or Lord and Taylor.

Is a Saks or Nieman Marcus feasible right now? Not really. But a Nordstrom seems like it could fit well in OKC.

[mugofbeer]

As much as I would hate to rain on the parade, I doubt seriously that enough people in OKC would pay the money Nordstrom, Saks or Nieman charge for merchandise to make them profitable. Yes Penn Square and Quail Springs would be the two locations but it would shock me to see any of them come here in the next 10 years.

[DirtLaw]

I would love to get a Nordstroms but like many have said, I do not think it will happen. Wrong demographics to support it unfortunately. If it did go it, I would expect it to be at Penn Square mall as that would be the best chance to succeed.

[BG918]

Nordstrom has announced they will open 50 new stores in the next 10 years. The majority of those will be additional locations in major metros but I imagine they will open some in new locations. I can see OKC being near the top of the list when that time comes as it would be the only location in the state.

[mugofbeer]

Nordstrom has announced they will open 50 new stores in the next 10 years. The majority of those will be additional locations in major metros but I imagine they will open some in new locations. I can see OKC being near the top of the list when that time comes as it would be the only location in the state.

Unless they are going to lower their standards of income, density and quality - which equates to people paying higher prices for department store goods - I don't see it happening. Maybe a Nordstrom's Rack.

[Kerry]

Nordstrom has announced they will open 50 new stores in the next 10 years. The majority of those will be additional locations in major metros but I imagine they will open some in new locations. I can see OKC being near the top of the list when that time comes as it would be the only location in the state.

Do you have a link to this annoucement? The most recent thing I can find is from 2008 but we all know what has happened since then.

[betts]

I've shopped at many a Nordstrom, and it's not significantly different from Dillards. High end clothing is fairly comparably priced and Nordstrom has plenty of clothing at lower prices. Dillards here has very expensive shoes and purses as well. Nordstrom simply has different brands and might be marginally more expensive in their bigger stores.

That being said, I think their anti-OKC bias has been evidently displayed and I don't think we'll get one. Saks has been having trouble and Neiman's definitely has higher priced merchandise so I'm not expecting one anytime soon. Again, I'd like to see more smaller higher end stores, especially since they don't require the volume of sales that a store like Nordstrom would. Bloomingdales might be another option, as their merchandise is a slight cut below Nordstrom.

[Spartan]

Wait for it...

Tulsa.

[Puppet]

I've shopped at many a Nordstrom, and it's not significantly different from Dillards. High end clothing is fairly comparably priced and Nordstrom has plenty of clothing at lower prices. Dillards here has very expensive shoes and purses as well. Nordstrom simply has different brands and might be marginally more expensive in their bigger stores.

That being said, I think their anti-OKC bias has been evidently displayed and I don't think we'll get one. Saks has been having trouble and Neiman's definitely has higher priced merchandise so I'm not expecting one anytime soon. Again, I'd like to see more smaller higher end stores, especially since they don't require the volume of sales that a store like Nordstrom would. Bloomingdales might be another option, as their merchandise is a slight cut below Nordstrom.

It IS significantly different from Dillards... Much higher end clothing, Much larger/better/diverse shoe selection, and the purse selection is nowhere close at Dillards...
I would love to see it in OKC, but doubt it will happen... oh well, Dallas is only 3 hours away.

[soonerguru]

I think it would look great down near I-240 and Shields. It would blend in well with the manufactured housing dealers.

[bluedogok]

The second Nordstrom location in Austin is on an "indefinite hold" since November of 2008. The Barton Square mall location is it for now. From what I have heard they have significantly scaled back their expansion plans.

[John]

They could take over the entire 'mall' portion of 50 Penn. That's the most logical spot.

Penn Square's land is at max capacity, besides possibly another restaurant @ the NW corner of the parking lot.

[Spartan]

If Austin has two Nordstroms surely Oklahoma can have one. Or two, one for each city. I think realistically, Norman and Tulsa have the best demographics to support a Nordstrom. It's going to be tough for OKC.

[betts]

Spartan, do we really truly know what demographics mean? For instance, if Tulsa's average family income is a few thousand dollars a year higher, does that really mean they'll spend a few thousand more per capita? Because we've got over 300,000 more people shopping than they do. A certain percentage of those people will fit the demographics as well. So, while our average income may be lower, that doesn't necessarily mean we have fewer shoppers who can spend that kind of money. Norman certainly has far fewer shoppers in that income range, no matter what their average income is. And again, the demographics do not factor in how much disposable income any of us have. Oklahoma City actually has as much or more disposable income than Seattle per capita, although we don't have the population they do. Market analysis fails as often as it succeeds, and it's a terribly crude "science" at this point in time.

[bluedogok]

Austin only has one full Nordstrom, the other one here is a Nordstrom Rack outlet store. The Domain location is the one on indefinite hold and may never be built since when/if Phase III is ever started back up (also includes the Whole Foods and Sak relocations) the city tax subsidy may have expired.

[Spartan]

Spartan, do we really truly know what demographics mean? For instance, if Tulsa's average family income is a few thousand dollars a year higher, does that really mean they'll spend a few thousand more per capita? Because we've got over 300,000 more people shopping than they do. A certain percentage of those people will fit the demographics as well. So, while our average income may be lower, that doesn't necessarily mean we have fewer shoppers who can spend that kind of money. Norman certainly has far fewer shoppers in that income range, no matter what their average income is. And again, the demographics do not factor in how much disposable income any of us have. Oklahoma City actually has as much or more disposable income than Seattle per capita, although we don't have the population they do. Market analysis fails as often as it succeeds, and it's a terribly crude "science" at this point in time.

Well Nordstrom just seems to have something against Oklahoma. I don't know if their CEO is Cashville from SkyscraperCity or what, but they seem to be rectifying staying as far away from Oklahoma as possible with the demographics line. That sort of implies that they're being very strict with the demographics threshold. When people look at Norman's demographics they typically include a lot of South OKC (the better areas).

[Oil Capital]

If Austin has two Nordstroms surely Oklahoma can have one. Or two, one for each city. I think realistically, Norman and Tulsa have the best demographics to support a Nordstrom. It's going to be tough for OKC.

Tulsa's demographic advantage over Oklahoma City has not been as large as Spartan suggests in recent years and is rapidly evaporating altogether. In fact, the recent MSA median household income reports I have seen (for 2007 and 2009) put OKC's above Tulsa's.

[Oil Capital]

Well Nordstrom just seems to have something against Oklahoma. I don't know if their CEO is Cashville from SkyscraperCity or what, but they seem to be rectifying staying as far away from Oklahoma as possible with the demographics line. That sort of implies that they're being very strict with the demographics threshold. When people look at Norman's demographics they typically include a lot of South OKC (the better areas).

In what cities that are demographically similar to either OKC or Tulsa (in size and median income) does Nordstrom currently have stores, giving you the idea that Nordstrom has "something against Oklahoma"?

[Oil Capital]

Spartan, do we really truly know what demographics mean? For instance, if Tulsa's average family income is a few thousand dollars a year higher, does that really mean they'll spend a few thousand more per capita? Because we've got over 300,000 more people shopping than they do. A certain percentage of those people will fit the demographics as well. So, while our average income may be lower, that doesn't necessarily mean we have fewer shoppers who can spend that kind of money. Norman certainly has far fewer shoppers in that income range, no matter what their average income is. And again, the demographics do not factor in how much disposable income any of us have. Oklahoma City actually has as much or more disposable income than Seattle per capita, although we don't have the population they do. Market analysis fails as often as it succeeds, and it's a terribly crude "science" at this point in time.

I am confident they look at a combination of median, average, per capita and household income numbers and population.