Proposed Fire Dept budget cuts

[Redskin 70]

Mike, unfortunately cuts that deep into coverage and manpower will drop our ISO rating and the first anyone will know about it is when their property insurance jumps. Hopefully the city will have answers for the citizens who will have to find a way to "deal with it" as Plansit so artfully puts it.

ISO? whats that and what does it mean?

[Wambo36]

It's the rating system that insurance companies use to determine your municipalities insurance rates. The lower your rating, the lower your homeowners or other property insurance rates.

Right now OKC has a 3 rating, but that is based on the coverage and manpower currently on board. If those decrease significantly and your response times, manpower on scene, rigs responding etc. go with them, then they re-evaluate your ISO rating. If it goes up so does your property insurance rates.

As an example, MWC has an ISO rating of 1. If my house was in the city limits of MWC instead of OKC my homeowners insurance rates would be $800-$1000 less per year.

[Redskin 70]

So my house In OKC of which I pay $1235 per year full coverage, if it was in MWC I would only pay $235 full coverage? Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand how this ISO thing works......A quick phone call to my home insurance provider, when presented with this scenario said my Insurance from the 3 to the 1 would only lower my premium less than $100 per year. Is he wrong?

OKCity has a rating of 3 and MWC has a rating of 1.

Now from doing some research on the net I see that MWCity is the only ISO rating of 1 in the entire state of Oklahoma and that Texas has a completely different rating system than Oklahoma.

What are all the factors that go into this ISO rating, how difficult are they to achieve and why haven't more Oklahoma Cities tried to meet this rating system......

Are the standards so impossible to meet that most simply cant.

I dont get it.

[Wambo36]

We built our house 3 years ago amd my insurance man is an old high school friend and someone I'ver been close friends with for over 30 years so I trust him. He kept asking me if I was sure that we didn't live in MWC because of the savings on our premiums. Those were the numbers he quoted and I checked his quote against our old insurance carrier and his was lower. That's as far as I went into it because I had no intention of moving again.

As far as getting a better ISO rating in OKC, it's not likely we will ever be better than a 3 unless they change the requirements. A city our size could never meet the response times required to get to a 1 without putting in a significant number of fire stations. Not feasible at this time. This one requirement alone would keep us from getting there. There are numerous requirements from the types of rigs you have making each call to the training level of the people on those rigs. OKCFD meets alot of those but several, like the response time one, we probably won't ever meet. At least not in my life time. Therefore we will probably not get any better than a 3.

What I was saying in my earlier post is that we could very easily get a worse one if we start closing down stations and making the response times longer than they are now. Or lower the number of FF's who show up on scene. Those are things that would affect it.

On edit: Wife just informed me the difference was going to be between $600 and $800 roughly, according to deductibles and coverages. Not as much but still substantial.

[Redskin 70]

We built our house 3 years ago amd my insurance man is an old high school friend and someone I'ver been close friends with for over 30 years so I trust him. He kept asking me if I was sure that we didn't live in MWC because of the savings on our premiums. Those were the numbers he quoted and I checked his quote against our old insurance carrier and his was lower. That's as far as I went into it because I had no intention of moving again.

As far as getting a better ISO rating in OKC, it's not likely we will ever be better than a 3 unless they change the requirements. A city our size could never meet the response times required to get to a 1 without putting in a significant number of fire stations. Not feasible at this time. This one requirement alone would keep us from getting there. There are numerous requirements from the types of rigs you have making each call to the training level of the people on those rigs. OKCFD meets alot of those but several, like the response time one, we probably won't ever meet. At least not in my life time. Therefore we will probably not get any better than a 3.

What I was saying in my earlier post is that we could very easily get a worse one if we start closing down stations and making the response times longer than they are now. Or lower the number of FF's who show up on scene. Those are things that would affect it.

On edit: Wife just informed me the difference was going to be between $600 and $800 roughly, according to deductibles and coverages. Not as much but still substantial.

Thank you, thats good info to know. Helps clear up some of my confusion.

[Wambo36]

No problem. The thing is, I grew up in MWC and have several friends on their FD. In our discussions about their rating we agreed that OKCs biggest obstacle would be the response time issue. They have 5 stations placed strategically around their city and you're never more than a few minutes away from help. The other requirements that we don't currently meet, and I don't remember all of them, were at least remotely possible for us to reach.

My biggest concern is that we don't start going backwards.

[Mikemarsh51]

Midtowner, how long have you been a lawyer?

[Midtowner]

I was born that way.

Explain to me how that's relevant to anything in this thread or see what you can dig up with the search function.

[Redskin 70]

I was born that way.

Explain to me how that's relevant to anything in this thread or see what you can dig up with the search function.

Great answer to a mortal enemy.

[Mikemarsh51]

I think it goes to your credibilty, last July you stated you could not give legal advice, now your a lawyer. If you've passed the bar, congrats! If not, are you to be considered trustworthy?

[CaptainCouch]

Several misconceptions in this thread that anyone with a newspaper subscription could rebut:

As has been written in the newspaper, the Fire Chief was asked to propose how he would make a 12 percent cut in FY 2011. It’s the Council’s prerogative to use the MAPS 3 use tax, so that he doesn’t have to make any cuts in the end, but he’s not in a position to count on that at this point in the process, so he has to propose cuts. But, it’s been well-documented in the paper that the Council does not intend to make any public safety cuts, thanks to the MAPS 3 use tax. The only remaining debate is whether the MAPS 3 use tax will also be used to increase the public safety staffing, as the Mayor proposed, but that’s not the issue at hand. Bottom line - there has been multiple public assurances by Mayor and Council that there will not be cuts to public safety in FY2010 or 2011, and there is no evidence yet to the contrary.

The idea that people need to start worrying about jumps in their home insurance costs over public safety cuts that aren’t happening is just silly.

Someone asked how use tax that hasn’t been collected yet can offset FY 2010 public safety cuts. Money is fungible, and the City does have a cash reserve. They can dip into that and then replenish it with the use tax when it is collected. Or a line of credit with minimal interest can be taken out, as with the Ford Center project. Not that big of a deal.

The Ford Center project is coming in under revenue estimates, but it’s also coming in under cost estimates. The hole really isn’t going to be that big. The idea that MAPS 3 contingency money will be used to fill the Ford Center hole is silly. That money won’t be available for years, and obviously it will likely be needed for MAPS 3. That’s why it was put there.

[Midtowner]

Credibility? We have a difference of opinion. I'm not saying anyone should believe me more than you because I have certain degrees and licenses. My arguments stand for themselves.

[LordGerald]

Credibility? We have a difference of opinion. I'm not saying anyone should believe me more than you because I have certain degrees and licenses. My arguments stand for themselves.

And unlike MikeMarsh, you work more than three days a week...

[okcsmokeandfire]

3 days a week, what a deal.

Where do I sign up for that gig?

Oh, you mean I have to work for 24 hrs. and not 9 am to 4 pm.

I gotta get all hot, sweaty and dirty and may not come home from work due to injury or death, wow,
hmmm.
On second thought, I am definitely out on that.
That dont sound like too good of a deal to me.

[Redskin 70]

3 days a week, what a deal.

Where do I sign up for that gig?

Oh, you mean I have to work for 24 hrs. and not 9 am to 4 pm.

I gotta get all hot, sweaty and dirty and may not come home from work due to injury or death, wow,
hmmm.
On second thought, I am definitely out on that.
That dont sound like too good of a deal to me.

Than why do you do it?

[okcsmokeandfire]

Im just poking a little fun at all of the uptight guys on here.

Sorry guys, just a little humor.....

[Mikemarsh51]

LordGerald almighty, where have you been hiding? Let's look again at hours worked. Average Joe works 52 weeks, 40 hours a week. That equals 2080 hours a year. Firefighters are on one of three shifts. So they will work 1/3 of the time. That equals 2912 hours a year. So your snippy little quip is nothing more than a falsehood. Man, if your going to be a prick at least try to get the facts right.

[LordGerald]

LordGerald almighty, where have you been hiding? Let's look again at hours worked. Average Joe works 52 weeks, 40 hours a week. That equals 2080 hours a year. Firefighters are on one of three shifts. So they will work 1/3 of the time. That equals 2912 hours a year. So your snippy little quip is nothing more than a falsehood. Man, if your going to be a prick at least try to get the facts right.

You're starting to crack MM. I was going to recommend you for the campaign director job for the coming public vote to get you your one percent raise, but if you can't take the heat, you're probably not the right person for the job. Pray for good weather, as there will be plenty of lawns for you to mow this spring.

[Mikemarsh51]

LordGerald almighty, It's interesting that you've made the determination that somehow I am defective since I've chosen to defend myself against your put down. My guess is you don't take it too well when someone pushes back a little.

[Wambo36]

So your snippy little quip is nothing more than a falsehood. Man, if your going to be a prick at least try to get the facts right.

Man Mike, talk about asking a leopard to change his spots. He's not going to let a little thing like the facts get in the way of him throwing out some barbs.

[tehvipir]

So captain, you are telling me that you are going to listen to a ONE sided newspaper that has done nothing but try and hurt the FD inamge since the 6 PAGE article in the paper and still to this day is trying to make us look like the bad gys? But you wont believe the Deputy chief nor the OCFD FIRE CHIEF, THE FIRE CHIEF, when he is asked to make the budget cuts of 12% that came FROM jim couch, that there are going to be NO layoffs and people shouldnt worry? Really, how do you know this?

Have you been reading and lstening to the nation for the past 3 years. its happening to numerous departments but you seem to think that 100% of the city council wont lay off FF?. they wont if it affects their district.

Also it is talked by midtown that the maps 3 hasnt even been collected yet. did you know that our city loses 16million to internet sales and thus affecting the city budget? I truely think that the people whom are thinking this is a ploy need to get of their high horse and realize that this is fact, our reccession proof city is getting hit and has been over a year now acording to the budget director.

[Midtowner]

Losing 16 million to internet sales?

Can you even get close to substantiating that?

And if you are, so what? We also lose lots of money to Dallas, Edmond, Norman, etc. You gotta compete to succeed. And that brings us full circle. MAPS III puts us in a position to compete for those sales tax dollars while sitting on our derrières, bitching about lost tax revenue gets us nothing.

[rcjunkie]

Losing 16 million to INTERNET sales?

Can you even get close to substantiating that?

And if you are, so what? We also lose lots of money to Dallas, Edmond, Norman, etc. You gotta compete to succeed. And that brings us full circle. MAPS III puts us in a position to compete for those sales tax dollars while sitting on our derrières, bitching about lost tax revenue gets us nothing.

I agree with part of this statement, if we do things correctly we can keep some of the tax dollars in OKC (keep people from shopping Dallas, Norman, Tulsa, etc, but the real problem is INTERNET sales. It's a fact you can save money shopping/buying on line, but the negative effect on the local tax base is tremendous. I have 2 close friends that have closed their small business', partly because of revenue lost to INTERNET sales.

By Local

[Midtowner]

I hate to say it, but part of capitalism is getting to go out of business when someone builds a better mousetrap. Your friends could have competed (for example) by going online. They didn't, now they're no longer in business. They have no one to blame but themselves though.

Yeah, that may sound a little 'Qu ils mangent brioche,' but it is what it is.

MAPS is only part of the solution, perhaps the Chamber of Commerce or whatever Oklahoma entity that works with small businesses should do free seminars about putting businesses online? Or failing that, perhaps small businesses should buy a few books, hire some consultants and get themselves online?

[BigD Misey]

this whole thread is a mouseTRAP!
Kill the thread! Kill the thread!
It's become a creative dual edged dig at occupations and spending that none of us individually can control.