Self defense - Racist style

[Easy180]

Love the racist protest part....I'm sure this guy would have reacted much differently had he been fired at by white dudes

http://newsok.com/man-has-no-regrets...asthead_topten


Jerome Ersland was back at work Thursday filling prescriptions and hoping that by taking the life of a 16-year-old boy two days earlier, he had saved others.

Rubbing an oversized bandage on his left forearm, where he said he was grazed by a robber’s bullet, Ersland related details of what he said was a highly organized hit on the Reliable Discount Pharmacy.

"I just regret anybody would get killed,” Ersland said. "But if I wouldn’t have been here, there would have been three people killed — the other pharmacist and the two techs.”

He also recalls the angry voices of people who gathered outside the pharmacy Tuesday night, shouting that he was a racist who unnecessarily took a life of the Seeworth Academy charter school student, Antwun Parker.

"There were a lot of black people gathered out there yelling and everything at my boss,” Ersland said.

After the pharmacy near SW 59 and Pennsylvania was robbed two years ago, the owner installed new security measures to try to make sure his employees would never again be forced to a back room and pistol-whipped.
"We have a very good security system,” Ersland said, motioning to the magnetic door locks that won’t let anyone in or out of the store without permission. "The door locks, and they (robbers) knew that. They had cased it because they knew exactly what time to hit us when we’d have all of our narcotics out and our money out.”

About 10 minutes before 6 p.m., Ersland said, two robbers wearing ski masks waited for someone to leave the pharmacy and then grabbed the open door and threw down a board to stop the door from closing.

The robbers went in cursing and yelling, ordering employees to give them money and drugs, Ersland said.

Two women who were working behind the counter ran for a back room where they would be safe, but Ersland said he couldn’t run. Ersland said he’s a veteran with disabilities from wounds he received in Operation Desert Storm, wears a cumbersome back brace and just had his latest back surgery six weeks ago.

"All of a sudden, they started shooting,” he said. "They were attempting to kill me, but they didn’t know I had a gun. They said, ‘You’re gonna die.’ That’s when one of them shot at me, and that’s when he got my hand.”

Ersland said he was thrown against a wall, but managed to go for the semiautomatic in his pocket.

"And that’s when I started defending myself,” he said. "The first shot got him in the head, and that slowed him down so I could get my other gun.”

But as one robber hit the floor, Ersland said, a bullet from the other robber whizzed past his ear.

The pharmacist said he then got his second gun from a nearby drawer, a Taurus "Judge.”

After he had the big gun, Ersland said, the second robber ran.

But as he started to chase after the second robber, Ersland said, he looked back to see the 16-year-old he had shot in the head getting up again. Ersland said he then emptied the Kel-Tec .380 into the boy’s chest as he kept going after the second robber.

"I went after the other guy, but he was real fast and I’m crippled,” Ersland said.

Outside the pharmacy, he said he saw what he thought was a third black male in a car with the engine running and reaching for what appeared to be a shotgun.

"I pulled out my ‘Judge’ and pointed it right between his eyes and he floored it,” Ersland said.


The investigation
Because of the sensitive nature of the investigation, police said they could not confirm any of Ersland’s story, including whether Ersland was shot, whether the robbers ever fired on him or even if Parker was armed.
On Thursday, police were still looking for the second robber, described as a black man in his 20s, about 5 feet, 7 inches tall, and weighing about 175 pounds. The man was last seen wearing a red shirt and dark pants.

A man was arrested about a block away after crashing a stolen car that fit the description Ersland gave, but police said the man has not been linked to the robbery.


After the gunfire
When he went back in the pharmacy, Ersland said, he called police.
"I asked if the girls were all right, and they were in the back crying,” he said. "I was glad to know they were alive. We were lucky and I’m glad I defended us, because I feel that a person has a right to defend themselves at their home or at their work. People deserve to be safe and not be afraid of people that want to take money when they don’t work for it.”

That’s what the Second Amendment and the state’s "concealed carry” license are for, he said.

"Fortunately, God made them miss me, except for this minor scratch,” Ersland said.

"I was able to return fire and protect the girls’ lives. God was helping me.”

[Stan Silliman]

The guy defended himself. Can't fault him.

I had a racquetball friend who was also a pharmacist. About fifteen years ago he worked at a pharmacy in north OKC. He carried a magnum 44 behind his counter. The pharmacy had been robbed a few times.

One time another robber, a druggie with a .22 came in flashing his gun demanding drugs and money. "Chuck" fired three shots at the robber, killing him. "Chuck" ended up serving time for manslaughter. The trial came down to the fact the robber hadn't fired his weapon and "Chuck" hadn't given him an opportunity to throw down his weapon.

[gen70]

I don't care what color someone is when they start shooting at me. When someone starts shooting at me I'am shooting back.

[Karried]

That is ridiculous - a gun renders everyone color blind especially when you are getting shot at - take a risk trying to rob someone and you get the consequences.

It's not like they didn't assume that they might get shot at if they went in shooting. They just gambled on the wrong person who happened to by carrying. too bad, so sad.

[bluedogok]

I get tired of the all too quick response by "family and friends" that the victims were "good kids"....if they were "good kids" they wouldn't have been pulling a robbery or carrying guns. The instant cry of racism is just ridiculous, if they weren't up to no good more than likely the perpetrators would still be alive.

There was a kid killed here by Austin police last week and the black community was "up in arms" over it to the point of treating it like a Palestinian protest throwing items at police cars breaking windows. Off-duty APD officers would not provide escort for the funeral procession because of the confrontation. The kid pulled a gun on an officer when he was awoken in the seat of a Mercedes at 5-something in the morning. The "good kid" in this case had a recent history of arrests and was a known Bloods gang member.

Parents need to quit turning a blind eye to the bad things that their kids do only see the "good side" of them....that is an issue regardless of race.

[dismayed]

Sounds like the guy was most likely in the right. The first incident in the pharmacy -- clearly he had a right to blow anyone away at that point. The third incident in the alley (if he had to shoot at anyone) seems okay to me, since he believed the car driver was pulling a shotgun on him. The only part where he might get into some trouble is where it says he turned around and saw the original suspect getting up and he unloaded his gun into him. Hope to goodness the guy says that the kid had his gun in his hand and was about to start shooting again.

[kevinpate]

A momma's battle cry, right or dead bang wrong, is generally
"My baby ain't no killa"

I don't care about momma's color, edumacation, income, social or martial status or the color/count of her teeth. One's baby is nevah a killa, well ..... almost nevah.

[MikeOKC]

If it's as the pharmacist says, I can't see where he can be anything but a hero to the staff that he saved.

[USG '60]

Betcha 50 cents some ass will try to file charges on him. And may the one who does burn for eternity.

[gmwise]

I commend the man.
I would have shoot the little **** and went on an shot the other ,then found who gave birth to this little thief/druggie and shoot them as well.
I do not care if they were white black or glowing purple with green strips, I would have shot them dead.
In the Corps, I hit what I aim at.
and if Prater files against this man, its time for a new DA.

[kevinpate]

Public knowledge at present is limited to the employee's version. Based on his account, the only Rut Rho moment I noticed was emptying a clip into the chest of the downed perp.

Making him DRT may have been a clean shoot, or may not have been. It's a rather fact based issue and the account presented has too few facts included for me to comfortably reach a conclusion.

If it was clean, then it was and life goes on. if it wasn't, the employee wouldn't be the first hero whose tights and cape had some unattractive stains and tears.

[CuatrodeMayo]

He he let the perp live, there would be a witness. Could that be why he made sure there was't? IDK.

[Easy180]

Public knowledge at present is limited to the employee's version. Based on his account, the only Rut Rho moment I noticed was emptying a clip into the chest of the downed perp.

Making him DRT may have been a clean shoot, or may not have been. It's a rather fact based issue and the account presented has too few facts included for me to comfortably reach a conclusion.

If it was clean, then it was and life goes on. if it wasn't, the employee wouldn't be the first hero whose tights and cape had some unattractive stains and tears.

I see it the other way....Come in with a gun you deserve to be killed regardless if the deceased shot first or not...All this went down in less than a minute so it's hard to play armchair quarterback and say he should have been more controlled with his shooting

Video game let's hit pause and possibly try and let the kid live somehow...Real life with two dudes shooting at you?...Rules should be thrown out the damn window and it's every man for himself

[Thunder]

One thing I do know if Prater's team decide to file charges, I will not vote for him.

The kid deserved to die, and the others should've been dead.

To think of it, any kids out there going around shooting and robbing deserves to be shot dead.

[Karried]

I don't think the kids deserved to die.... but I don't think the Pharmacist deserved it either.

In this case, from what we know, it was self defense.

[Midtowner]

Based on his account, the only Rut Rho moment I noticed was emptying a clip into the chest of the downed perp.

That's what I'm thinking. The privilege of using deadly force to defend oneself exists because as a society we figure it's good to give the good guy the opportunity to answer deadly force with deadly force.

In this case, I think it's crucial to know how much of a threat the downed robber reasonably posed. If the robber was no longer a threat, killing him is not something the shopkeeper was still privileged to do, so we may very well have a case of what looks to be manslaughter and if Prater files a civil suit, I guarantee you a civil suit will be filed for wrongful death.

I really have to question the cowboy mentality of this shopkeeper running outside to pursue these robbers -- he knew or should have known he was outnumbered and outgunned (not to mention the fact that there was really no cover outside of the store, if the robbers hadn't been panicked they could have pretty easily dispatched the shopkeeper).

If he used that sort of judgment in the later situation, what's to say he didn't use poor judgment in finishing off the first robber?

I'm definitely not jumping to any conclusions. Up until the killing part, I personally hope I'd have had the presence of mind and bravery to answer this threat in the manner that the shopkeeper did. There are definitely some things which need to be investigated though. The police/D.A. will be neglectful of their duty if they do not fully investigate everything.

[Thunder]

I'm sure the kid got up with a gun still in his hand.

[Midtowner]

Maybe the investigation says that, maybe it doesn't.

I hope law enforcement isn't as glib about assuming what occurred as you are.

It's funny -- when something like this happens, folks tend to blatantly impute their own facts into the situation based on their personal biases.

It's pretty easy to predict:

The pro-gun folks: It was obviously a clean shoot. No one ever kills a robber in any manner but self-defense. Even if there was no immediate apparent danger to the shopkeeper, the robbers clearly deserved to die.

Folks from this kid's neighborhood/liberals, etc.: These kids never had a chance. Society failed them. The shopkeeper wouldn't have killed the robber if he hadn't been black, etc.

Truth is, the only one who knows what happened did the shooting.

[oneforone]

This guy may not see criminial charges but, I would not be suprised if a civil case is filed just simply because he said he pursued the suspects.

I think a good lawyer could very easily convince a jury that the situation switched from self defense to revenge at that point.

This guy should have just kept his mouth shut until the police and D.A. clered him of his actions.

[Midtowner]

This guy should have just kept his mouth shut until the police and D.A. clered him of his actions.

This.

I think he's probably doing that now. Actually, even if he's cleared criminally, he could still face civil action (remember O.J. Simpson?). Hopefully, he shuts the heck up and stops giving ammunition to the kid's parents. Even if he wins the lawsuit (which is probably inevitable unless the police investigation comes up with a pretty definitive report with regard to the self-defense aspect of this thing), he's still going to be out mucho dinero defending himself.

This is why folks *really* need to pay attention in their conceal and carry classes. If you're planning on using a gun for protection, whether you're going to carry it out in public or not, those classes are a good idea so that you know when you can and when you can't use deadly force. I can definitely see how people can get a flawed idea of what is and what isn't okay to do with a gun.

Take the class.. it might save your life, someone else's life, or your financial future.

[ronronnie1]

This one is pretty simple:

You're big enough to commit armed robbery, then you're big enough for a bullet between the eyes.

This concludes your lesson for today.

[GWB]

This one is pretty simple:

You're big enough to commit armed robbery, then you're big enough for a bullet between the eyes.

This concludes your lesson for today.

Wow, and this coming from a liberal. Impressive.

[DaveSkater]

Here's the plausible theory I see by reading the story, a very simple one to defend by an attorney for the shopkeeper:

Deadly force was being used against the shopkeeper. Got shot in the hand. Shots continued by both intruders.
First intruder was shot in the head and goes down. Shopkeeper goes to retrieve big gun, and the other intruder runs away. Its safe to assume that the intruder who was shot in the head would have either retained, or retrieved, or had another gun. Before he could use it, he was shot again and killed.
The shopkeeper wishing to determine if it were safe enough to relax his defense long enough to notify the authorities ran outside, where he saw yet a third perpetrator drawing what appeared to be a shotgun. He leveled his gun, but that 3rd pepetrator fled, ending the imminent danger.

The shopkeeper then notified the authorities.

I can't imagine how any charges could be filed that won't be exonerated.

It matters not what color the perps were, or their age. You come in shooting at a war hardened desert storm veteran, you're gonna get what you had coming.

[HSC-Sooner]

I commend the man.
I would have shoot the little **** and went on an shot the other ,then found who gave birth to this little thief/druggie and shoot them as well.
I do not care if they were white black or glowing purple with green strips, I would have shot them dead.
In the Corps, I hit what I aim at.
and if Prater files against this man, its time for a new DA.

The thieves deserved to get shot, even killed for attempting an armed robbery. The pharmacist was a hero, possibly preventing more victims.

As for shooting whoever gave birth to the thieves? If we enforce that, I think you just solved the population crisis.

[drum4no1]

One less useless thug on the street... sorry my opinion..

Such a great kid, give me a break.