Okc Trip

[In_Tulsa]

Well this is my first post and let me first say this is a very good site. Now I have read alot of posts on this site and so I took a little trip to OKC the (big city) and I was very surprised. OKC was not what I thought it was, now DON'T take this the wrong way but it feels like a run down Tulsa. Is it bigger than Tulsa? because it does not seem bigger at all. Tulsa seems more urban and traffic is ten times worse in Tulsa. Now I have been to Kansas City and Dallas many times and I have to say Tulsa seems more in line with those cities than OKC. I am NOT downing OKC it is a nice little town but I was not blown away. I do like Bricktown it was nice, so that what I have to say about OKC. Please don't hate me I just wanted to tell you what I thought of your city, now come to Tulsa and tell me what you thank of my city.

[Decious]

Ok, nobody lose it. We know that this person is wrong, but let's not start bashing Tulsa. Tulsa is indeed a nice town. I think that we all understand why we sometimes get posts that carry this tone. I've been to several Tulsa forums and often find comparisons between our states two major MSA's that often attempt to belittle OKCs advancements i.e. Maps, etc.

Phrases such as "cute little city" and such are meant to degrade but vanity turned to jealousy often produces this. Anyone here who has a younger sibling knows what I'm talking about. This is purely psycological and normal. This poster gets a boost to their self esteem and no one is hurt in the end. I'm sure that there aren't many people going to tulsa.org and posting thing like this in that forum.
Why?... Because we don't compare OKC to Tulsa. We're focused on our city and are happy for Tulsa and Oklahoma when anything good happens anywhere in our state. Just look at the compliments and good feeling that we have even in the current thread in regards to Tulsa new convention center. Contrastingly, the Ford Center is primarily referred to as the big meatloaf on Tulsa.org.

Again, we should understand that far more than perception, what people want to see, is reality in their eyes. Whether the motive be vanity, envy, self esteem, or even spite, it is a very basic thing to understand.

That said, no one should jump down your throat because we know that what you've said isn't true. OKC is not a little city and neither is Tulsa. Is OKC bigger than Tulsa? Yes. This is not opinion, it's fact. You love your city and I applaude you for that. Focus your attention on Tulsa like we focus on our city and you'll be fine.

[In_Tulsa]

I was not trying to be mean and I never said Tulsa was better. It was just what went through my head when I went to OKC. It just seems like more people are in Tulsa when you drive through it and it is more compact which means it seems bigger. So Sorry if I upset anyone that was not what I was trying to do.

[Midtowner]

Thanks for visiting.

Both cities are completley unique. I do think Tulsa is more cosmopolitan.. But what is Tulsa spelled backwards? I love that.

Anyhow, every city has its own unique attractions. Tulsa has an amazing opera house, some very nice museums, a beautiful riverfront and decent shopping. The two cities though are completely unique. I occasionally make day trips up there to visit an exhibition, or see an opera. Glad you enjoyed Oklahoma City.

[downtownguy]

First: In Tulsa, welcome to this site and thanks for visiting. I've been to Tulsa, and to downtown, and yes, they are very different cities. Tulsa didn't tear down as much of its downtown as Oklahoma City did during the height of Urban Renewal. Tulsa also is blessed with a lot more natural beauty. That's a fact. So OKC until the last decade was very much at a disadvantage to Tulsa. I'm not sure it's fair to judge Oklahoma City's downtown on a weekday in February. Come back during spring through fall, when Bricktown and downtown are bustling with activity, and then compare that to what's going on downtown Tulsa at the same time.
Yes, Oklahoma City has been blessed of late with some very helpful improvements to the highway system, making traffic less of an issue here than elsewhere. But surely you're not saying that a city is only big if traffic is in a gridlock. As for size ... well, the U.S. Census and land mass pretty much sums up where both cities stand.
So, what should one say about Tulsa?
It's beautiful. The architecture downtown is beautiful. The entryways to your downtown put our entryways to downtown to shame. But there isn't a lot going on in your downtown - not yet. But you have some terrific opportunities. Cain's Ballroom and the Brady Theater and surrounding district could easilly rival Bricktown without the amount of public investment spent here (it will require private investment, however). The proposed Tulsa arena will be a landmark, where OKC's Ford Center is just another arena. But keep in mind, OKC's arena cost half what the Tulsa arena will cost. For the cost of the Tulsa arena, OKC built not just equal size arena, but also the canal and ballpark.
It's difficult to say a chat site like this reflects the vibe of a city, but let's assume it's an indicator; you'll notice the posters on this board are very upbeat, very positive about OKC's future. Can you say the same about Tulsa's www.tulsanow.org/forum?
Likewise, Decious does seem to have a point about Tulsan's habit of picking on OKC. You'll have a difficult time finding anyone on this site picking on Tulsa. Most people I know want to see Tulsa thrive. Why can't Tulsans admit OKC is doing some right things and celebrate our accomplishments? You could still challenge us on our shortcomings. But with all of this state's problems in the rural areas, won't it take both major cities moving forward to lead Oklahoma to future prosperity?

[K Mac]

I took my family to Tulsa last Saturday to see what the Incredible Pizza was all about. I'm glad to see OKC is getting an Incredible Pizza! One of the first things I noticed about Tulsa was the traffic! Maybe if they could put more than 2 lanes each direction on their roads they would be able to eliminate some of the congestion! We went to the mall after pizza & it took 1/2 hour just to get out of the parking lot! It was as bad as X-Mas traffic in OKC! I do agree Tulsa seems to be a little more upscale than OKC in some areas,but going to far north on Memorial shows Tulsa has its down side also! Let's feel proud that Oklahoma has a variety of places to live. Different strokesfor different folks!

[okcpulse]

In_Tulsa, thanks for visiting Oklahoma City. The first thing I suggest is a return visit. The number one problem is Tulsans generally have very little knowledge of Oklahoma City, its urban geography, and its numerous assets.

yes, Oklahoma City IS bigger than Tulsa. Why does it not look larger? Well, often times the first part of Oklahoma City that Tulsans will always see is the east side of town. Much of the east side is not developed, and there is not much development activity. Most of our skyscrapers are not as tall as those in Tulsa, mostly because twenty-five years ago Tulsa was a very corporate-oriented city, and office space was in high demand. Williams Cos. sunk a lot of cash in office development, which resulted in a 52-floor tower and three 15 to 20-floor buildings. That and Oral Roberts' 60-floor dream in south Tulsa.

Tulsans tend not to venture too far into Oklahoma City. The northwest side of the city has long been an affluent area, and the city's most economically active area with two major shopping malls, a lot of recreation and office space.

Usually, Tulsans hit I-35, head straight downtown, get back on I-35 and head back home. Those who visit more of Oklahoma City normally have a different view than the impression you got, although they still inherit what I like to call a superiority complex.

One thing to remember is, Tulsa is pretty much all in one place. Its urban area is less than 180 square miles with a population of 387,000. Oklahoma City's urban area is close to 240 square miles with a population of 540,000.

Tulsa's upscale areas are mostly on the south side and in midtown, while Oklahoma City's upscale areas are on the northwest side, around Nichols Hills, and south of I-240 on the south side.

I've been to Tulsa many times, at least five times a year. I've seen the good and bad in both cities, and if you see what I see after a lot of trips between both cities and a lot of research to make some sense of the rivalry, you'll see where Tulsa was and where Oklahoma City is. Both cities keep Oklahoma going, and both are moving in good directions, but both have different ideas about where and how to grow.

All that being said, Oklahoma City is not the outcast city that Tulsa still cracks jokes about. What's happening here is more than MAPS, or MAPS for Kids. It's progress. It's real progress. You see it in our civic leaders. You see it in our citizens. You see it in our movers and shakers that have big plans for Oklahoma City that will take it too the next step. People are talking. But Tulsa is still talking about Oklahoma City as if it were still 1992.

Perceptions change when concrete knowledge is presented before opinions are made. And that is the only way Tulsa will ever have an informed image of Oklahoma City, if that is remotely possible.

[okcpulse]

Posted by In_Tulsa

"I was not trying to be mean and I never said Tulsa was better. It was just what went through my head when I went to OKC. It just seems like more people are in Tulsa when you drive through it and it is more compact which means it seems bigger."

Well, In_Tulsa, keep this is mind. Tulsa is a city that was designed to keep its residents on city streets. Its freeway system designs resulted in a system that serves only thru traffic. Tulsa, whose urban geography is generally north-to-south, has only one north/south freeway serving the Tulsa MSA, which is 169. Broken Arrow Expressway mainly carries traffic between downtown Tulsa and BA.

Oklahoma City is a city designed to keep its traffic moving in multiple directions, because not only does Oklahoma City deal with traffic in the major suburbs of Edmond, Moore, Norman and Midwest City as well as half a dozen pocket suburbs with 5,000 to 23,000 residents, the city also has to deal with out-of-state traffic from three major interstates.
Oklahoma City's urban geography mainly concrentrates itself from south to northwest, although the northeast side of the city is seeing a lot of upscale developments, as well as north of Quail Springs Mall.

To avoid the traffic congestion that Tulsa sees, Association of Central Oklahoma Governments, responsible for transportation planning in Oklahoma City, designed a complex freeway network, as well as an ample street system to relieve heavy traffic.

However, as Oklahoma City begins to pick up in density as well as sprawl development, which I know both will continue with the city's growth, congestion will become more prevalent.

But for the record, Oklahoma City does not make much use of I-35, since the Broadway Extension, I-44, Lake Hefner Parkway and I-240 are used by metro residents.

[mistress_x123]

When I moved here a friend told me about how huge OKC was, and me never been to OKC I though WOW a place bigger than Phoenix, kewl! So we drove up and through and she turned to me and asked me "what you think huge huh", I looked at her a laughed and asked her where the rest of it was and she then told me that was it. Now she knew I came from Arizona and she knew I came from Phoenix. I just about died when she said that was it. It took me less time to drive from my house to the city then it did for me to get across the phoenix metro at 2:00a.m. Now don't get me wrong OKC is what I call small but it has a lot of heart.
So I can understand where In Tulsa is coming from. But I like it all the same.

[mranderson]

Actually, Mistress, you are both correct and incorrect. Oklahoma City metro is about 100 miles north to south and 75 to 100 miles east to west. The metro is close to, if not larger than the Los Angeles, Orange county area in California, and MUCH larger than most major metro (in area) in the United States.

However. The actual densely populated portion is somewhat small. It covers about 1/4 (give or take a bit) of the city. Imagine how many people we would have if we had more urban area. New York City would be small in population.

[JOHNINSOKC]

I haven't been to Tulsa in a couple of years. The last time I was there, I went downtown and that was pretty much the only view of the city I had, but I think I will have to venture up there soon to do a more thourough tour. I've heard it's supposedly better than OKC, but that depends on what Tulsans have seen of our city. If you judge OKC by what you see on I-40 or I-35, you're not getting a clue about what this place really looks like or what kind of progress is being made. I TOTALLY agree with the assessment on why traffic is not as bad here in OKC. We have one of the BEST freeway networks in the country, and couple that with a grid street system with some other road configurations mixed in and you have a metro area that can support a great deal of growth. That's one thing about annexation that helped OKC. Plus, the hub-spoke freeway system is flawed. I lived in Nashville for 3 years and at the time, it was smaller than OKC, but the traffic was twice as bad. The arterial streets basically ran the same direction as the interstates. It was a nightmare, even at 2PM. I always here people say the same about DFW. They have nearly the same system and the traffic is bad. Traffic should not give people the impression that a certain city is much larger than the other. Nashville is a great example of that situation. Tulsans need to get over that issue.

[mistress_x123]

Mranderson, That would mean that the tiny rural area I live in is in the Oklahoma city metro area and if that was the case then ,why in god name do I have to pay long didstinst to call anyone, have a whole different phone company than you, and the town next door is in a whole neither county. The towns I go through to come home do not lest themselves as part of the greater oklahoma city metro area. You can add all the land to okalahoma but you didn't add all the land Phoenix, why is that?

[mistress_x123]

Sorry not tring to start something. Just was saying something I noticed and I was using the traffic at 2:00 a.m. ( which is not a busy traffic time) cuz that is and was the fastest time to get across the metro areaone way and 100 miles is nothing ( if you count all of the land too). Sorry but I had to say my peace and I always do.

[mranderson]

Mranderson, That would mean that the tiny rural area I live in is in the Oklahoma city metro area and if that was the case then ,why in god name do I have to pay long didstinst to call anyone, have a whole different phone company than you, and the town next door is in a whole neither county. The towns I go through to come home do not lest themselves as part of the greater oklahoma city metro area. You can add all the land to okalahoma but you didn't add all the land Phoenix, why is that?

I have no idea. As the state grew, the criteia for the metro grew. Every city in the 405 area code is considered metro. That covers the area I said. Maybe Pac Bell (I presume the phone company in Arizona) has different policies. Plus the state of Arizona might have different criteia for their metros.

All I know is when I was a kid, Edmond and Norman were not considered metro. Now Shawnee, Guthrie, and as far as Purcell is metro.

[mistress_x123]

My 405 area code is not even in the okc metro area phone book. If your going by that you need to go back to the books and look againg.

[mranderson]

My 405 area code is not even in the okc metro area phone book. If your going by that you need to go back to the books and look againg.

What I am going by is the fact I was born in Oklahoma and raised in Oklahoma City. Which is not Phoenix. If the situation was reversed and I had just moved to the place you lived in for the majority of your life, I would trust your facts.

Think about that.

[HOT ROD]

ive been to phoenix before and there was no 2am traffic.

Also, i thought phoenix was very well planned, much like OKC. Phoenix has over 1m people in city and what, some 3m metro? But it seemed to be very well laid out, just like OKC with lots of freeways (with lots of lanes, even twin diamonds). I was very impressed, just like I am with OKCs grid and freeway system.

So you mean to tell me that I should not be impressed with Phoenix?

I think Phoenix and OKC are both big cities that are well planned for growth. Phoenix has grown more than OKC but both are similar with similar conditions.

In actuality, downtown OKC is bigger than downtown Phoenix, for those of you who have never been! Yes, I know cause I been there.

[mistress_x123]

Yes I do agree with Hot Rod of the downtown party OKC dowtown is huge compared to Phx's downtown. And it's (OKC) is better lokking by far.

[HOT ROD]

Phoenix is very -- -- -- -- spread out.

I think that is what mistress meant when she said "okc big? huh" Phoenix is miles and miles and miles of houses and one/two storey buildings. I dont think she was attacking OKC, she was just pointing out that Phoenix is much more spread-out than OKC.

Im glad you agree with me about downtown Phoenix. I was so surprised when I was there, given Phoenix is a top 8 city in the nation - its downtown really is not very impressive; OKC's downtown kills Phoenix with every category except possibly retail.

[mistress_x123]

The one thing I really like about OKC is that most of the big buildings are old ( they kept them ) Phx has torn down alot of their old buildings and the history is gone but only in mind. Where OKC has history all over and you can see that and if it did go something went in place so you still have it in mind and in the eyes to see and show others and I think that is really kewl.

[okcpulse]

mistress_x123, why does Phoenix have such a tiny downtown for a city of 1.4 million people, and a metro of 3.5 million? The mountains in the backdrop are awesome in Phoenix, but I like Oklahoma City's skyline much better.

[mistress_x123]

I wish i knew that cuz it's down town sucks and old. They don't fix the buildings they tare then down. Most of the tall buildings are not even in the true down town. It old and mostly poor. they put the bank one ball park close to it hoping it would bring money into the area and the town. ( and pockets too)

[Patrick]

The one thing I really like about OKC is that most of the big buildings are old ( they kept them ) Phx has torn down alot of their old buildings and the history is gone but only in mind. Where OKC has history all over and you can see that and if it did go something went in place so you still have it in mind and in the eyes to see and show others and I think that is really kewl.

It's interesting that you say that, because a lot of people actually complain about the impact Urban Renewal had on our historic downtown...namely, that much of our historic architecture downtown was lost.

I guess it depends on what city you compare us to. Fortunately, we still have significant structures like First National, the Skirvin Hotel, OG&E, the Hightower Building, Colcord, Bell Telephone, ONG, the old Post Office, theold Oklahoman publishing building, etc.

[Patrick]

In reference to In Tulsa...thanks for taking time to visit OKC. I'm extremely sorry that you weren't impressed with your trip. I encourage you to come back tduring the summer months and spend a little more time in OKC, especially around the far NW areas of the city, like Gaillardia, Nichols Hills, Penn Square, Quail Springs, Ski Island/Blue Stem, etc. As many have mentioned, OKC is layed out weird.....significant portions of the city are easy to miss.

In regards to Tulsa, I'll admit, Tulsa has some pluses. Tulsa has much more natural vegetation to work with. I'd ave to admit, that overall Tulsa is probably a prettier city. But, overall I think there's much more to do in OKC. Our attractions are better. Just my opinion though.

I like both cities. Oklahoma wouldn't be the same without either oneof them. That's why I dislike when people bash one or the other. And as people have mentioned, it's usually Tulsans bashing Oklahoma Citians.

[mistress_x123]

thank you Patrick. I am sure there are buildings (like in bricktown) that you never relize how old they are untill an older coupe tell you what they remeber down in that area and that some of those buildings are still there for them to see. Which is really kewl to here.