2025 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[s00nr1]

Here's to a 2025 full of new routes and service additions for KOKC. We can hope, right?

[citywokchinesefood]

[bison34]

Haha, I wish.

[shai2022]

New route predictions for 2025? Been forever since anything new has been announced.

[bison34]

I still think there is a leadership problem that is hurting OKCs airport, in terms of routes (bash away, I don't care). I don't know if OKC is just more conservative or has fewer incentives to lure new routes, or if OKC isn't marketed properly, but they have far fewer connections than other airports their size, or even smaller. See Des Moines or Grand Rapids as examples. OKC can't seem to keep lower-priced airlines here, and those 2 have made a killing with Allegiant Airlines. Just weird to me.

The fact OKC can't get back any of the routes they lost in 2020 is brutal, and hard to excuse. SFO, DTW, EWR, IAD, etc. We have 4 new gates, which should mean more flights and destinations, but it hasn't really, yet.

[Mississippi Blues]

I’m just mad that there still isn’t a non stop to PDX. The flight could be chartered on a crop duster and I’d take it just for the convenience.

[juhobra]

I NEED a direct to Boston! Tired of connecting through Houston or Chicago. And how do we not have directs to all of United's hubs??

[Celebrator]

Yeah, it is hard to believe UA has not restarted SFO, and since they have not, can't believe WN hasn't tried OAK to fill in the gap that exists to the Bay Area from here. And, yes, BOS would make be able to make it with jungle jets on AA or DL, I would think.

[Anonymous.]

I’m just mad that there still isn’t a non stop to PDX. The flight could be chartered on a crop duster and I’d take it just for the convenience.

Yes. So tired of switching planes in Denver or SLC.

[Soonerinfiniti]

Every time I have flown to LGA it was at least 75% full, mostly 100%. Hard to believe a limited direct to BOS isn't available from OKC. ......

[s00nr1]

My wish list:

United - SFO and IAD and more mainline for IAH and DEN [or at worst, E75s only]
Alaska - PDX
American - PHL
Delta - BOS

[HOT ROD]

I thought someone had indicated in the last version of this thread that OKC-SFO was coming back in 2025 (summer?) and I think I read they are actively trying to launch international (to Mexico) this year. Definitely questionable why smaller cities/markets have better flights than OKC or bigger planes on key routes. ...

But yes, I think your list is very reasonable and should be a priority for OKC (other than possibly OKC-PDX but could be done on Horizon to start). In fact, add JetBlue to JFK to that list, Spirit to MKE (at least once a week), and ALL of United Hubs (return of EWR, as well as SFO and IAD) and fill year OKC-MIA. Also need to see allegient do full year to at least one of their OKC destinations.

Imagine if OKC had all of these, we'd surely be north of 5 million pax annually probably by limiting leakage to DFW alone. Add in the international and OKC could be getting connections, which dramatically increase pax numbers (by the double count).

[BG918]

I think SFO on United, BOS on Delta and PHL on AA are the most likely adds over the next 1-3 years. That and a flight to CUN - no idea which airline though. My thoughts on the following:
- United: IAD, EWR - these used to be the only flights to the DC and NYC areas, now that there is competition from Southwest/AA/Delta I don't see United adding them back anytime soon
- Delta: DTW - this was served many years pre-COVID, Delta for whatever reason doesn't seem to want to add it back. At least MSP is now back (1x/daily - used to be 2x/daily).
- Southwest: BWI - I don't see Southwest adding this back now that they have restored MDW and added BNA and MCO for east coast connections, plus O&D is covered by the DCA nonstops on AA/Southwest
- Allegiant: good to see them returning for summer 2025, maybe they can add a couple new routes like MSY
- Alaska: I could see PDX being added in the next couple years, they have said recently they want to build up that hub

[juhobra]

Looking at the data of similar sized cities and emplanements, why does OKC lag in enplanements and non-stop routes when normalized for population?

I understand Raleigh and SLC are hubs, but how do Milwaukee and Memphis outperform OKC on non-stop routes? Only Providence (which can hit NYC or Boston for flights) and Birmingham, AL have fewer enplanements per population than OKC. I know the joke is people from OKC will drive instead of fly...but if you don't have direct routes, it makes choosing to drive much easier. How do we get to a level similar to these other airports?

All that being said, if OKC adds a non-stop international route (as rumored), it would be a big step forward for the airport.

Airport	2023 MSA Population	2023 Enplanements	Non-Stop Routes	Emplanements/ Person	Non-Stop Routes/ 1 million people	International?
Tuscon	1,080,300	1,925,546	19	1.78	17.6	No
Spokane	785,302	2,002,286	21	2.55	26.7	No
Tulsa	1,044,757	1,571,600	23	1.50	22.0	No
Birmingham, AL	1,184,290	1,499,027	23	1.27	19.4	No
OKC	1,477,926	2,135,106	25	1.44	16.9	No
Buffalo	1,155,604	2,291,995	29	1.98	25.1	No
Omaha	983,969	2,464,418	33	2.50	33.5	No
Milwaukee	1,560,424	2,959,840	35	1.90	22.4	Yes
Memphis	1,335,674	2,399,876	35	1.80	26.2	Yes (May 2025)
Richmond, VA	1,349,732	2,399,239	35	1.78	25.9	No
Grand Rapids	1,162,950	1,899,740	36	1.63	31.0	No
Providence, RI	1,677,803	1,732,909	38	1.03	22.6	Yes
Louisville	1,365,557	2,268,034	40	1.66	29.3	No
Cleveland	2,158,932	4,803,822	41	2.23	19.0	Yes
Columbus	2,180,271	4,095,189	46	1.88	21.1	Yes
Pittsburgh	2,422,725	4,493,052	60	1.85	24.8	Yes
Kansas City	2,221,343	5,654,068	61	2.55	27.5	No
Raleigh	1,509,231	7,119,040	74	4.72	49.0	Yes
Salt Lake City	1,267,864	12,905,368	105	10.18	82.8	Yes

[bison34]

Looking at the data of similar sized cities and emplanements, why does OKC lag in enplanements and non-stop routes when normalized for population?

I understand Raleigh and SLC are hubs, but how do Milwaukee and Memphis outperform OKC on non-stop routes? Only Providence (which can hit NYC or Boston for flights) and Birmingham, AL have fewer enplanements per population than OKC. I know the joke is people from OKC will drive instead of fly...but if you don't have direct routes, it makes choosing to drive much easier. How do we get to a level similar to these other airports?

All that being said, if OKC adds a non-stop international route (as rumored), it would be a big step forward for the airport.

Airport	2023 MSA Population	2023 Enplanements	Non-Stop Routes	Emplanements/ Person	Non-Stop Routes/ 1 million people	International?
Tuscon	1,080,300	1,925,546	19	1.78	17.6	No
Spokane	785,302	2,002,286	21	2.55	26.7	No
Tulsa	1,044,757	1,571,600	23	1.50	22.0	No
Birmingham, AL	1,184,290	1,499,027	23	1.27	19.4	No
OKC	1,477,926	2,135,106	25	1.44	16.9	No
Buffalo	1,155,604	2,291,995	29	1.98	25.1	No
Omaha	983,969	2,464,418	33	2.50	33.5	No
Milwaukee	1,560,424	2,959,840	35	1.90	22.4	Yes
Memphis	1,335,674	2,399,876	35	1.80	26.2	Yes (May 2025)
Richmond, VA	1,349,732	2,399,239	35	1.78	25.9	No
Grand Rapids	1,162,950	1,899,740	36	1.63	31.0	No
Providence, RI	1,677,803	1,732,909	38	1.03	22.6	Yes
Louisville	1,365,557	2,268,034	40	1.66	29.3	No
Cleveland	2,158,932	4,803,822	41	2.23	19.0	Yes
Columbus	2,180,271	4,095,189	46	1.88	21.1	Yes
Pittsburgh	2,422,725	4,493,052	60	1.85	24.8	Yes
Kansas City	2,221,343	5,654,068	61	2.55	27.5	No
Raleigh	1,509,231	7,119,040	74	4.72	49.0	Yes
Salt Lake City	1,267,864	12,905,368	105	10.18	82.8	Yes

Big oof. Everything rolls uphill. It starts at the top. Louisville having 40 and OKC only 25 is criminal, and should be a firable offense. OKC hasn't added a new destination in over a year. OKC hemorrhages passengers to DFW because our route tree is pathetic.

Unfortunately, there seems to be no urgency to improve it, either. Or maybe OKC is seen as so poor, airlines don't want to invest in any leisure routes here.

[Celebrator]

Part of SDF's 40 count for nonstops is the fact they have two ULCCs (Allegiant and Breeze) that specialize in point to point leisure, so of course they are going to have more nonstops on the books. Every single time those two airlines make an add it is a nonstop route basically (I know Breeze uses CHS as a bit of hub, but not a ton). Why haven't ULCCs done well in Oklahoma? Now that I cannot account for. OKC has a lower per-capita income than Louisville by about $3-5k per sources I could find. That's a large difference that might account for increased travel due to more disposable income.

[Jeepnokc]

Part of SDF's 40 count for nonstops is the fact they have two ULCCs (Allegiant and Breeze) that specialize in point to point leisure, so of course they are going to have more nonstops on the books. Every single time those two airlines make an add it is a nonstop route basically (I know Breeze uses CHS as a bit of hub, but not a ton). Why haven't ULCCs done well in Oklahoma? Now that I cannot account for. OKC has a lower per-capita income than Louisville by about $3-5k per sources I could find. That's a large difference that might account for increased travel due to more disposable income.

The ULCCs may do well because Louisville has a huge draw of bourbon tourist trade and SDF is a/the destination point.

[Celebrator]

The ULCCs may do well because Louisville has a huge draw of bourbon tourist trade and SDF is a/the destination point.

Interesting, thanks. I don't drink so know nothing about that being a "huge draw."

[BG918]

XNA serves a metro of 600k (Fayetteville/Springdale/Rogers/Bentonville) and has 26 nonstop flights. 7 of those are on Allegiant or Breeze. I know Wal-Mart, yada yada.

The growth of XNA has definitely impacted TUL has it used to get more flyers from that area that now use XNA. I think DFW takes away a good number of potential OKC flyers especially those in the south metro and southern OK.

[BoulderSooner]

XNA serves a metro of 600k (Fayetteville/Springdale/Rogers/Bentonville) and has 26 nonstop flights. 7 of those are on Allegiant or Breeze. I know Wal-Mart, yada yada.

.

kind of a big deal ...

[Richard at Remax]

Looks like SWA is also adding a flight from DTW for the Michigan game to go along with Delta

[stlokc]

Purely anecdotal. Purely conjecture. But I would suspect there are fewer business travelers coming to and from OKC than a lot of those cities because of the relative lack of larger corporations here, Omaha for example has six Fortune 500 headquarters and 4 more in the 500-1000 range.

To BG918's point, metro size is one thing but I have to think it also has to do with population within a couple of hours. Western Oklahoma is far less dense than most of those other places on that list above.

Final anecdotal point is I think a lot of Oklahomans, when they "travel" they drive to a lake or maybe as far as Colorado or the Gulf coast. I just feel like fewer people in OKC than elsewhere take bigger trips by plane to farther locations, which may be a function of lower incomes. I may be off on that, just a hunch.

[bison34]

Purely anecdotal. Purely conjecture. But I would suspect there are fewer business travelers coming to and from OKC than a lot of those cities because of the relative lack of larger corporations here, Omaha for example has six Fortune 500 headquarters and 4 more in the 500-1000 range.

To BG918's point, metro size is one thing but I have to think it also has to do with population within a couple of hours. Western Oklahoma is far less dense than most of those other places on that list above.

Final anecdotal point is I think a lot of Oklahomans, when they "travel" they drive to a lake or maybe as far as Colorado or the Gulf coast. I just feel like fewer people in OKC than elsewhere take bigger trips by plane to farther locations, which may be a function of lower incomes. I may be off on that, just a hunch.

I think you're last point needs some push back. If we had more options, we'd gladly fly. But because we have to connect to go anywhere, it's automatically significantly more expensive.

[stlokc]

Bison34, I think you are right. The pushback is warranted. However, if a few hundred dollars makes or breaks where someone goes on a vacation, then they may not be traveling very much in the first place. If someone says "I would go to New York if it was $500 but since it's $800 I'm not going to go," that is a function of lower incomes and living "closer to the break-even line." I think there is more of that in OKC as a percentage than in some other places. But I don't have data to back that up.

[Richard at Remax]

So just looking at some cities that I would put in our lane (Omaha, des Moines, grand rapids, Louisville) and their route maps, I found something obvious but interesting.

Each one of those above have nonstop connections to 9-12 airports in Florida alone. We have 3, and right now they are mostly seasonal. I don't have any rhyme or reason on why oklahomans don't want to go to Florida, but it was eye opening.