Campus Corner

[BoulderSooner]

Interesting.

Still, it would be a very shaky legal move to try and take private property and then give it to a private developer.

I suppose that OU could be the owner of the property with some sort of joint-venture with a developer.

and here is a paper on it


chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://shareok.org/bitstream/handle/11244/337588/2023_Ridley_William_Dissertation.pdf?sequence=5

[BoulderSooner]

Interesting.

Still, it would be a very shaky legal move to try and take private property and then give it to a private developer.

I suppose that OU could be the owner of the property with some sort of joint-venture with a developer.

i 100% agree with this .... OU to my knowledge as only used it to expand the campus ..

and there policy is to only use it as action of last result ..

i always thought it would be funny for OU to ED reaves park back from the city of norman because of how much Norman in the past didn't want to play ball with OU

[Jersey Boss]

and here is a paper on it


chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://shareok.org/bitstream/handle/11244/337588/2023_Ridley_William_Dissertation.pdf?sequence=5

https://www.mcafeetaft.com/eminent-d...minent-domain/

Less than one year after the Kelo decision, the Oklahoma Supreme Court had the opportunity to affirm the stricter limits on the government’s use of eminent domain in Oklahoma. In Board of County Commissioners of Muskogee County v. Lowery, Muskogee County attempted to use its power of eminent domain to acquire two water line easements for a private company to construct an electric plant. The County, echoing the City of New London’s rationale, stated that the purpose of the taking was to spur economic development and greater job opportunities for the County’s population. The landowners, represented by the OFB Legal Foundation, appealed their case to the Oklahoma Supreme Court, and in 2006 the Court expressly held the Oklahoma Constitution provided more protection for private landowners than the U.S. Constitution, and that economic development, without any other rationale, does not create a legitimate public purpose or public use. The Court noted that “[t]o permit the inclusion of economic development alone in the category of ‘public use’ or ‘public purpose’ would blur the line between ‘public’ and ‘private’ so as to render our constitutional limitations on the power of eminent domain a nullity. If property ownership in Oklahoma is to remain what the framers of our Constitution intended it to be this we must not do.” Therefore, Oklahoma landowners can successfully challenge a proposed condemnation by showing that the proposed use is not allowable under Oklahoma law.

Apparently OU could not use ED the way the rumor has it.

[Pete]

‘Norman is going to be a boomtown’ awash in SEC opportunity
By: Chip Minty//The Journal Record//August 23, 2023

Imagine you have a rich uncle who’s coming to visit and to share some of his wealth.

The problem is you’re not sure your home is large enough for him and all his friends. To add to the matter, your neighborhood is kind of boring, so you’re afraid he and his friends might go looking for more entertaining places to spend their money.

The good news is your uncle’s visit is still a year away, so there’s still time to prepare, but no matter how hard you try, your house and your neighborhood won’t be ready to meet the standards your uncle is used to seeing.

That’s how Norman leaders are feeling as they anticipate the arrival of the Southeastern Conference, a tsunami of economic opportunity that will wash ashore next fall. That is when the University of Oklahoma Sooners will kick off their first season as a member of the elite cadre of athletic programs that have dominated college football for 20 years. But with this conference, it’s not just about football and it’s not only about the athletes. SEC fans are renowned for their enthusiasm, their willingness to travel and the money they spend. They like football, they like baseball, basketball, softball, and they don’t mind road trips.

And a lot of them don’t even need tickets to the games. They’re content with tailgating in the shadow of the stadiums, just to soak in the game-day atmosphere.

Ever since OU announced its move to the SEC two years ago, the clock has been ticking as civic leaders and Norman businesses assess just how many red carpets they must roll out for the coming onslaught.

“We are not going to be ready, but we’re going to move forward,” said Norman Mayor Larry Heikkila. “It’s going to take a couple of years to get there, and a lot of it is going to be market-driven.”

According to Norman Economic Development Coalition President Lawrence McKinney, the market already is gassed up, and it’s ready to roll with a dozen hotel and motel operators clambering to build in Norman. Land is in high demand right now, he said, and his office has seen multiple unsolicited offers from developers willing to pay millions just for property the NEDC owns.

“Not to take anything away from the Big 12, but the SEC is just bigger,” said McKinney, who has spent much of his career in the SEC states of Georgia and Florida. “We’ve been having more discussions with people who want to open a business here. Other SEC businesses also have contacted the NEDC about moving operations to Norman. Just the announcement that OU is joining the conference was enough to spark interest. There is so much opportunity now.”

University of Oklahoma officials say Norman is likely to see at least twice as many visiting fans at SEC home games than they saw in the Big 12. While the Big 12 requires members to provide 2,500 football tickets to visiting schools, the SEC demands 5,000 tickets for visiting fans, and SEC schools are not known for giving tickets back.

Economic impact may double – or even triple
Just in terms of economic impact, Visit Norman Executive Director Dan Schemm said revenue opportunities will be huge. In the Big 12, Norman sees an $11 million economic impact from each home game, Schemm said. Next year, with the SEC, the community will see an impact that is two to three times that big. Part of that will be from hotel and motel rooms, where demand will be two to three times greater, and the rates will be higher as well.

But Schemm said Norman may not have all the rooms to meet that demand, which is why Oklahoma City is licking its chops. Beyond hotels and motels, Norman’s Campus Corner and downtown are reliable entertainment districts, but the city needs more choices with live music and more for people to do, Schemm said. There is potential for SEC fans to migrate north to OKC, where they’ll find more rooms, more restaurants and more entertainment.

“We want to keep them here, so we need to up our game and look for ways to improve,” he said.

Schemm said the tailgating experience is one area of particular focus for OU officials. OU Vice President and Athletic Director Joe Castiglione said the university is considering several options for meeting the increased demand for tailgating space next year.

“There are several options the university is considering. It could be that we see some of those tested this coming season,” Castiglione said. “We know how critical the game-day environment is, particularly for SEC fans, and we’re exploring a range of possibilities to ensure that game day in Norman is a premier experience.”

Recreational vehicles are another area of focus, Schemm said.

“The SEC is big on RV-ing. They can come on Wednesday or Thursday, and they can stay until the following Monday or Tuesday.”

Currently, Norman has RV space in the Lloyd Noble Center parking lot, as well as at the Duck Pond across the street from Oklahoma Memorial Stadium. Additional space is at the Cleveland County Fairgrounds and at Lake Thunderbird, but Norman will need more than that. That’s why Oklahoma City developer Kale Streeter is planning a multimillion-dollar RV resort south of Norman, near U.S. Highway 77. The park will contain hundreds of RV spaces in a wooded area with amenities, such as a pool, a fitness center, a restaurant, a bar and a general store. Streeter said he’s even planning an aerial adventure park and a dog park. Golf carts will be available for transportation within the park, and a shuttle service will carry fans to the OU campus on game days.

Streeter said his proposed development is pending city approval, and he has not announced a start date for construction.

OU’s move to the SEC already has given Norman more visibility, and because of that, the community will see economic opportunities that go well beyond game days, said Norman economic developer McKinney.

“Norman is going to be a boomtown, and not just because of the SEC,” he said. “It’s also because Norman is a talent incubator with 28,000 students on the OU campus. This is going to be a great opportunity for Norman to grow its economy. Now, we have an opportunity to get a lot more dollars invested in Norman, and that will help our local governments provide more services for the people who live here.”

[chssooner]

And OU opened Lindsey up for tailgating. So that will be huge, as well.

[cinnamonjock]

I wish Norman was as good as Oklahoma City about making plans and renderings available online. Sounds like there will be tons of developments throughout Norman for the next several years

[Anonymous.]

OKC should invite the visiting RV'rs to post up in the Boathouse District for football weekends; can provide a shuttle service down to Norman and back.

[chssooner]

OKC should invite the visiting RV'rs to post up in the Boathouse District for football weekends; can provide a shuttle service down to Norman and back.

Have you ever tried getting to the game from OKC? It's miserable. May be a hard sell.

[john60]

I am interested in what cities similar to Norman in the SEC look like as far as their development near campus. I don't know that there's a great comparable city in the SEC. Most are either in large cities/state capitals (Lexington, Columbia, Nashville, Baton Rouge) or they are farther from "major" cities than Norman to OKC (Tuscaloosa, Auburn). Athens is probably the best comp? Would be very interesting to compare what those peers have vs. Norman's campus corner, etc.

Edit: I'm now doing some SEC geography review. Maybe Lexington is a good comp too.

[Pete]

I am interested in what cities similar to Norman in the SEC look like as far as their development near campus. I don't know that there's a great comparable city in the SEC. Most are either in large cities/state capitals (Lexington, Columbia, Nashville, Baton Rouge) or they are farther from "major" cities than Norman to OKC (Tuscaloosa, Auburn). Athens is probably the best comp? Would be very interesting to compare what those peers have vs. Norman's campus corner, etc.

Edit: I'm now doing some SEC geography review. Maybe Lexington is a good comp too.

I think Athens is a near-perfect corollary. Very close to a big city (Atlanta) but separate and the population is almost identical to Norman.

Upthread I posted aerials of the areas adjacent to the respective campuses in those cities. It's a shocking contrast, with Athens being about 5x more dense.

[SEMIweather]

I think Tuscaloosa is a better comparison than Athens (albeit still not perfect). Norman is a half hour away from OKC, Tuscaloosa is an hour away from Birmingham, Athens is an hour and a half away from Atlanta. OKC Metro Area is 1.4 million (which includes Norman), Birmingham Metro Area is 1.1 million (which doesn't include Tuscaloosa), Atlanta metro area is 6.2 million (which doesn't include Athens). I would also argue that OKC/Norman are more similar culturally and politically to Birmingham/Tuscaloosa than Atlanta/Athens. For all of these reasons, I think anyone hoping for Athens-level density in Norman is setting themselves up for disappointment. Tuscaloosa feels more realistic to me.

[Pete]

I think Tuscaloosa is a better comparison than Athens (albeit still not perfect). Norman is a half hour away from OKC, Tuscaloosa is an hour away from Birmingham, Athens is an hour and a half away from Atlanta. OKC Metro Area is 1.4 million (which includes Norman), Birmingham Metro Area is 1.1 million (which doesn't include Tuscaloosa), Atlanta metro area is 6.2 million (which doesn't include Athens). I would also argue that OKC/Norman are more similar culturally and politically to Birmingham/Tuscaloosa than Atlanta/Athens. For all of these reasons, I think anyone hoping for Athens-level density in Norman is setting themselves up for disappointment. Tuscaloosa feels more realistic to me.

Norman should have at least half the density of Athens and has a big added advantage: CC is growing north and a suddenly thriving downtown is growing south.

[SEMIweather]

Norman should have at least half the density of Athens and has a big added advantage: CC is growing north and a suddenly thriving downtown is growing south.

I agree, that's a reasonable analysis.

Also I'll add that I think the overall best comparison for what Norman should aspire to be is Denton.

[GoGators]

I think Tuscaloosa is a better comparison than Athens (albeit still not perfect). Norman is a half hour away from OKC, Tuscaloosa is an hour away from Birmingham, Athens is an hour and a half away from Atlanta. OKC Metro Area is 1.4 million (which includes Norman), Birmingham Metro Area is 1.1 million (which doesn't include Tuscaloosa), Atlanta metro area is 6.2 million (which doesn't include Athens). I would also argue that OKC/Norman are more similar culturally and politically to Birmingham/Tuscaloosa than Atlanta/Athens. For all of these reasons, I think anyone hoping for Athens-level density in Norman is setting themselves up for disappointment. Tuscaloosa feels more realistic to me.

What is the area around Tuscaloosa like?

[dankrutka]

OKC should invite the visiting RV'rs to post up in the Boathouse District for football weekends; can provide a shuttle service down to Norman and back.

Amtrak leaves OKC at 8:25am and returns at 9:27pm. It's walkable along the Canal. Make it happen.

[dankrutka]

Have you ever tried getting to the game from OKC? It's miserable. May be a hard sell.

It's really not that bad. The most recent times I've driven into Norman a few hours before the game I think there was a 5-10 minute delay. What route are you taking?

[catcherinthewry]

Hopefully Norman will finally get a Walk-Ons that has been talked about since 2019.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.p...light=walk+ons

[Pete]

It's really not that bad. The most recent times I've driven into Norman a few hours before the game I think there was a 5-10 minute delay. What route are you taking?

I agree, I've never had a problem. I like to go a bit early and soak up the ambiance.

Leaving can be harder but I typically stay after the final whistle and have a drink or meal and let traffic clear out a bit.

[chssooner]

It's really not that bad. The most recent times I've driven into Norman a few hours before the game I think there was a 5-10 minute delay. What route are you taking?

I usually go down Sooner. But I'm thinking that Lindsey being shut down so people can tailgate there will impact other routes.

[PhiAlpha]

Amtrak leaves OKC at 8:25am and returns at 9:27pm. It's walkable along the Canal. Make it happen.

I used to do this all the time for 11 and 2:30 kickoffs. It was awesome (and no one ever noticed that we smuggled roadies onboard at 8 AM lol). It’s not perfect for everyone but if you live neardowntown and want to really take in game day…it’s hard to beat.

[Shortsyeararound]

I take the ten mile flats to and from Norman on Gamedays. We get there about an hour or 2 before games to wonder around. We park on Cruce just east of Berry and walk. Traffic is no big deal since we stay off the highways and aren’t in the immediate stadium area.

[BoulderSooner]

I usually go down Sooner. But I'm thinking that Lindsey being shut down so people can tailgate there will impact other routes.

that section of lindsey was already closed on game days ..

[BG918]

I used to do this all the time for 11 and 2:30 kickoffs. It was awesome (and no one ever noticed that we smuggled roadies onboard at 8 AM lol). It’s not perfect for everyone but if you live neardowntown and want to really take in game day…it’s hard to beat.

Now just imagine doing this with commuter rail: 30 min headways with stops in DT Edmond, north OKC, midtown OKC, Santa Fe Depot, Moore and downtown Norman. OU would be the "end of the line" and a short walk down Brooks to the stadium

[Pete]

Now just imagine doing this with commuter rail: 30 min headways with stops in DT Edmond, north OKC, midtown OKC, Santa Fe Depot, Moore and downtown Norman. OU would be the "end of the line" and a short walk down Brooks to the stadium

I've taken CalTrans from San Jose to a SF Giants game.

It was awesome. Almost everyone aboard was going to the game and the last stop was right across the street from the stadium. Returning the other way was just as easy and fun. I've done something similar for Yankees, Mets and Cubs games.

There may be no better use of regional mass transit than moving large groups of fans in and out in an efficient and stress-free way.

[BoulderSooner]

I used to do this all the time for 11 and 2:30 kickoffs. It was awesome (and no one ever noticed that we smuggled roadies onboard at 8 AM lol). It’s not perfect for everyone but if you live neardowntown and want to really take in game day…it’s hard to beat.

22 min on the way down arrives at 847am

38 min on the way back arrives at 927pm (i wonder why the additional 16 min?)