Automobile Market

[okatty]

I have not bought a car for several years (pre-pandemic). My daughter is in town and has been looking at cars in Austin. We went to Battison Honda today to look at their CRV Hybrid Sport inventory. The MSRP was $34,300. Battison has it priced at over $40k for “dealer accessories” like paint protection, mats, etc. WOW. I asked the guy if he’d take full sticker in cash today and he just laughed.

I guess the only good thing is her 2017 Ford Escape is still worth almost what we paid for it in 2018.

[Pete]

^

This sort of gouging has been going on for decades. The TruCoat scene in Fargo is one of the most cringy yet relatable experiences for anyone who has ever bought a new car.

There is a reason dealership owners generally live like royalty.


The old dealer model is yet another relic that the EV movement needs to vanquish.

[Jersey Boss]

I have not bought a car for several years (pre-pandemic). My daughter is in town and has been looking at cars in Austin. We went to Battison Honda today to look at their CRV Hybrid Sport inventory. The MSRP was $34,300. Battison has it priced at over $40k for “dealer accessories” like paint protection, mats, etc. WOW. I asked the guy if he’d take full sticker in cash today and he just laughed.

I guess the only good thing is her 2017 Ford Escape is still worth almost what we paid for it in 2018.

Offering to pay in cash is a negative to the dealer. They make money on financing.

[okatty]

They were not going to sell it on any basis at MSRP - financed or cash.

[Trip]

If you can wait a few weeks, try towards the end of the month. May have just been another sales tactic, but when I bought my car on January 30th I had several salesmen state they were particularly open to a reasonable offer so they could book it for that month. I told them I was not going to pay for any of the dealer extras (they'd only added a few grand's worth, not as bad as what you observed at Battison), and they gave it to me at MSRP plus transportation costs. BTW, I did not pay cash, but I had my financing pre-arranged - so they made no money off the financing.

[Trip]

I should say MSRP plus transportation costs and doc fees (which were in the mid range of what other dealers were charging for the paperwork). Edmond Hyundai, 2023 Palisade for what it's worth.

[okatty]

^I agree with you on the end of month strategy, and your experience is more what I was expecting.

[warreng88]

My brother worked in used cars for a while and said a lot of the dealers get kickbacks from financing and you might be able to find a better deal if you finance it. That's what I did in 2019. I had cash to purchase a 2017 Accord from Fowler, but financed $10,000 and then paid it off six months later. Not sure if I would have gotten a better deal had I financed the whole thing or a worse deal if I paid cash for the whole thing, but the price was lesser than most of the other cars. Now, that was pre-covid. I don't even want to know what buying a new/used car is like today.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Also sometimes worth using Costco Auto to get OTD quotes and all that. A place to start negotiation at least.

[Anonymous.]

Yes it is widely known that showing up with cash or your own financing puts you at an automatic disadvantage on price negotiation. Just go through their financing then pay off the entire loan.

Like Pete said, dealership tactics are ridiculous and I will be happy to see those industry games die. Think about how insane it is to be forced to pay for dealer added rubber mats when the manufacturer ones are sitting in the trunk.

[Pete]

Car dealerships are like other fading, government-protected semi-monopolies like cable TV: They have treated consumers so incredibly badly for so long that as soon as there is a decent alternative, business will be happily taken elsewhere never to return.

[SEMIweather]

I was able to purchase a 2023 Corolla for MSRP without add-ons at Janzen Toyota up in Stillwater last month; granted, this was after placing a deposit to reserve a vehicle and then waiting a month or so for them to get a car allocated which matched my specifications, rather than buying one directly off of the lot. Jim Norton Toyota would not sell me one at MSRP without add-ons even under those circumstances. My experience is of course entirely anecdotal, but might be worth it to work with dealerships in smaller markets, particularly if you’re willing to wait a little while to “order” a car.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Dont you worry car manufactures will soon figure out car "subscriptions" (leases) and just have everyone paying monthly for life like a cell phone. Volvo has been trying it for some time rolling in car insurance, the lease and any other fees into one payment.

[Anonymous.]

Dont you worry car manufactures will soon figure out car "subscriptions" (leases) and just have everyone paying monthly for life like a cell phone. Volvo has been trying it for some time rolling in car insurance, the lease and any other fees into one payment.

Yes, this is already happening. Several car brands require subscriptions to an app that enables remote start and lock/unlock from anywhere etc.

This will only get worse. Manufacturers are realizing they can now just build every car model with the same hardware. But the ability to access the features from that hardware are done using over-the-air software updates. Imagine buying a car with heated and cooled seats, but the feature is only turned on if you pay $10 a month... forever.

[gjl]

I have had incredible experiences dealing with Bob Moore dealerships and recently Wilson Cadillac/GMC in Stillwater. No funny business whatsoever.

[MagzOK]

I have had incredible experiences dealing with Bob Moore dealerships and recently Wilson Cadillac/GMC in Stillwater. No funny business whatsoever.

Yes, we bought from Bob Moore Mazda and had a really great experience that will make it easy to go back when we want another.

[Dob Hooligan]

I don't see how the car buying experience is going to become less expensive. A direct from the carmaker model isn't going to give up revenue. They will make it from you just like a dealer will, except they might label it differently. If a legacy carmaker has 4 franchise dealers in OKC, then those dealers will work to sell you a car using some kind of reason to buy from them. Usually price. If an EV carmaker sells factory direct, then they have zero reason to "sell" you (assuming you are going to buy that brand of EV regardless).

[Pete]

I don't see how the car buying experience is going to become less expensive. A direct from the carmaker model isn't going to give up revenue. They will make it from you just like a dealer will, except they might label it differently. If a legacy carmaker has 4 franchise dealers in OKC, then those dealers will work to sell you a car using some kind of reason to buy from them. Usually price. If an EV carmaker sells factory direct, then they have zero reason to "sell" you (assuming you are going to buy that brand of EV regardless).

But the dealer is just a middleman taking a big cut.

Eliminate that and the manufacturers can charge the customer what they currently charge the dealers.

Car companies have plenty of competition from competing brands without the antiquated dealership model. Every single car and truck have dozens of direct competitors.

[chssooner]

But the dealer is just a middleman taking a big cut.

Eliminate that and the manufacturers can charge the customer what they currently charge the dealers.

Car companies have plenty of competition from competing brands without the antiquated dealership model. Every single car and truck have dozens of direct competitors.

I think he is saying that those direct to buyer models will just label what other car dealers call "middle costs" and call them something else.

I don't fully agree, but can see what he means. I am with you on dealerships being antiquated. But they are pretty powerful, in most states. I think Oklahoma has quite a few lawmakers who are, or at least were, dealership owners. So I don't see it changing here, unfortunately.

[Pete]

Car sellers are subject to competitive market forces and dealerships just add a layer of expense.

We are getting ready to have an avalanche of new makers coming to market and none of them are going to be using the old dealership business model.

If the government would stop protecting car dealers and allow direct sales (like Tesla already offers) you'd see market efficiencies drive consumer costs down, not up.


It shouldn't be necessary to explain how the government passing and maintaining protectionist laws is very bad for the consumer.

[Dob Hooligan]

Car sellers are subject to competitive market forces and dealerships just add a layer of expense.

We are getting ready to have an avalanche of new makers coming to market and none of them are going to be using the old dealership business model.

If the government would stop protecting car dealers and allow direct sales (like Tesla already offers) you'd see market efficiencies drive consumer costs down, not up.


It shouldn't be necessary to explain how the government passing and maintaining protectionist laws is very bad for the consumer.

I don't think Tesla has done anything to reduce customer costs. They are more fully engaged in legal price fixing than any other car maker today. I don't see anything in Mr. Musk's profile that makes me think he is going to do anything to make my life less expensive if I buy a car straight from his factory instead of a local dealer.

[Pete]

I don't think Tesla has done anything to reduce customer costs. They are more fully engaged in legal price fixing than any other car maker today. I don't see anything in Mr. Musk's profile that makes me think he is going to do anything to make my life less expensive if I buy a car straight from his factory instead of a local dealer.

Tesla is just the first, a semi-monopoly in its own right.

That is changing and fast, hence multiple Tesla price cuts already this year.

[chssooner]

Tesla is just the first, a semi-monopoly in its own right.

That is changing and fast, hence multiple Tesla price cuts already this year.

I think they are lowering them for another reason: lowering demand, as prices have escalated due to inflation. Not bashing, but it seems a lot of these direct to buyer companies are struggling. Rivian is slow. Canoo, who knows. Polestar, slow. Lucid, expensive as heck.

https://thehill.com/policy/transport...across-the-us/

[KTB]

The best thing about purchasing a Tesla is that everyone else that purchased that vehicle on that day paid the same price. No haggling with salesmen for hours and you don' have to worry about them sliding something in at the last minute like the Fargo True Coat. I wasn't in there more than a couple minutes because everything is done with the app. I don't feel like I have to get the best price in the country, but I also don't want to feel ripped off. Most cars on the lot locally have a $2000 upcharge for accessories you may or may not want (tint, tracker, coatings, nitrogen, wheel locks). I haven't set foot in a dealership in the last 10 years without already having the deal and financing done. I'd email every internet manager at every dealership in OK, TX, and KS, and see if someone will deal that has either inventory or allocation.

[OKCRealtor]

I would be pretty upset if I were a recent Tesla buyer or owner with them slashing costs several times now. The value of your vehicle has tanked, but they were cool before everyone had them.