The NBA in OKC Megathread

[HOT ROD]

Yeah, I think the city underestimated its hand. They treated Bennett just like they did Schultz and the past owners, who were from Seattle and obviously had a vested interest.

Well, in comes Bennett from OKC and I guess the city thought Bennett would be IMPRESSED with Seattle, so much so, that the city didn't take him seriously or thought he'd eventually give up I guess.

I dont get it either, I mean - Seattle could have made a HUGE deal. I mean, they could have sat down at the table, and either got the NBA/Bennett to assist in building a state of the art facility in the SODO district (near the other two stadiums) OR the city could have let the franchise go in exchange for retiring the name/colours/history and a promise to ressurrect the team (through a relocation of a troubled team) once an arena got built.

but instead, Seattle burned its bridges with the NBA, Bennett, and probably any/every investor outside of the original Schultz minority group - who would otherwise jump at the chance to have a team here. The city/state played hardball and now Bennett has the upper hand.

The weird thing is, it appears that the city is trying to appease the NBA based on the Seattle BRAND itself; by even talking about a remodel of Key Arena. Bennett, Stern, and other NBA officials have said time and time again that Key Arena (aka the original yet remodeled Seattle Coluseum) is OUT ... yet the city NOW wants to do the remodel that Schultz proposed. What is the city thinking? that a new remodel of Key Arena would all of sudden 'convince' the NBA board that the market here can succeed?

Why didn't the city discuss this when Schultz was trying to talk to them two years ago? Why didn't the city do what it took then to make a difference? Why didn't the city do anything until Aubrey opened his mouth in September 2007????

And why is the city doing this - 'we'll choke Bennett and the NBA in lawsuits' crap when it will ONLY ensure the team and the NBA will be gone; either next year, 2009 or by the 2010 season???

of special note that you guys may not have noticed, King County also has plans for Key Arena and the Seattle Centre (surrounding fairgrounds area) - it hopes to turn it into an urban housing village.

I think that is the best move, and build the NEW arena in the SODO stadium area. Once this happens, Seattle will have to settle for the NHL - IF they'd approve a team in such a hostile yet wealthy market. ... Seattle is a two edged sword - wealthy yet full of spoiled, out-of-touch-with-the-rest-of-the-nation/world brats who think people owe them JUST because of their good luck.

In case you can't tell, I will be moving soon, probably to Chicago (or Houston). So will the Sonics - definitely to Oklahoma City.

[Kerry]

Hotrod - you move as much as I do.

[HOT ROD]

Here's the latest whining from the SeaTimes. Now their complaining that both of Oklahoma City's teams (Sonics and Hornets) both can't draw crowds in their current homes. ...

Fact is, neither team was profitable NOR set any attendance records (other than not attending) even prior to OKC being in the picture. But I do have to say, the story did paint a bleak picture for the Sonics (and Hornets) and that was nice to see from the SeaTimes (which almost always tried to boost anything Seattle).

Sonics | Sonics | Two teams in search of fans | Seattle Times Newspaper

Sonics | Two teams in search of fans

By Jayda Evans
Seattle Times staff reporter

Scan the home arenas of the Sonics and Hornets, and it's easy to tell there's work to do.

Patches of empty red seats are evident at Seattle's KeyArena, and clumps of blue show at New Orleans' Hornets Arena.

The Sonics rank 24th of 30 NBA teams in attendance, averaging 13,840 fans with only one sellout this season. The Hornets, who host the Sonics today, are last in attendance at 11,431 for their 8-year-old, 18,208-seat arena.

Both teams' problems drawing fans go beyond NBA attendance decline.

On one end are the Sonics, a once-proud franchise in the middle of a fight between the city and owner Clay Bennett over Bennett's demand for a state-of-the-art facility and threat to move the team to Oklahoma City. On the other end are the Hornets, trying to draw fans in a city devastated by Hurricane Katrina.

Players feel the weight of playing for a city, but try to just focus on games.

"They don't know if they're staying or leaving," said former Sonic Rashard Lewis to Orlando reporters in November about Seattle players. "I played there eight, nine years and can't see a city like Seattle without a franchise. They won a championship there, had history there, Hall of Fame guys who played in Seattle. Now they'll be moving to another city? When I get older, I'll say I played with the Sonics once, but my kids will [say], 'They don't even have a team out there. You must have played a long time ago.' "

The Sonics (5-15) begin a five-game, eight-day road trip today against the Hornets (13-7). After starting the season 0-8, Seattle hopes for its first three-game winning streak.

"It's going to definitely be a test for us," said guard Earl Watson after the Sonics defeated Milwaukee 104-98 on Friday. "It's part of the NBA. It's going to be good to see how we respond to it and it's a chance for us to grow as a team."

For New Orleans, the situation is different.

The Hornets, who spent the previous two seasons in Oklahoma City because of Hurricane Katrina, are trying to keep a still struggling city in the spotlight. The NBA is helping with various programs, including joining with T-Mobile to donate $20 to the New Orleans Recovery School District for every point scored by the players named Rookie of the Month. For the opening month of the season, Sonics forward Kevin Durant won the award, accounting for $6,940.

And the NBA will spotlight New Orleans by holding its All-Star Game there in February.

Yet attendance still lags.

Chris Paul, David West and Tyson Chandler make headlines, including Paul's career-high 43 points in an overtime win against Memphis on Friday. But the Hornets struggle for fans as the city tries to rebuild.

Owner George Shinn has said repeatedly the team still needs more.

"There is no way we are going to survive without support," Shinn told the Memphis Commercial Appeal.

Sounds familiar.

I think Rashard Lewis's quote is not only compelling but also 'fortune-telling', especially this:

'Now they'll be moving to another city [as in Oklahoma City]? When I get older, I'll say I played with the Sonics once, but my kids will [say], 'They don't even have a team out there. You must have played a long time ago.'

[HOT ROD]

Hey guys, we need to use our megathread.

Sonics | OK City mayor proposes election regarding NBA practice facility | Seattle Times Newspaper

OK City mayor proposes election regarding NBA practice facility

By JEFF LATZKE
AP Sports Writer

OKLAHOMA CITY — Oklahoma City made its first major move toward permanently attracting an NBA franchise Thursday when Mayor Mick Cornett called for the public to support a proposal to spend more than $100 million to overhaul the Ford Center and build a practice facility.

Cornett accelerated plans for the vote by several months so it could be held prior to an April date when NBA owners are expected to consider a request by Seattle SuperSonics owner Clay Bennett to move his team to Oklahoma City.

"If we don't pass this election, we are not going to get a team," Cornett said. "If you look at the NBA's history, at relocated franchises, I can't think of one that went to a city that didn't have a commitment to a new arena long-term."

Cornett said the improvements would be paid for by extending a current one-penny sales tax for an additional 12 to 15 months. The City Council will consider plans for the election during its Jan. 2 meeting, and the proposed date for the vote would be March 4.

An exact cost for the upgrades should be finalized by the City Council meeting, when a consultant is expected to outline what changes are needed to the 5-year-old Ford Center.

The building recently hosted the New Orleans Hornets for two seasons after Hurricane Katrina forced the team's temporary relocation, and average attendance was 18,329 -- about 1,000 below the arena's capacity.

Bennett announced in November that he would seek to relocate the SuperSonics, and the NBA Board of Governors is expected to consider the move at its April 17-18 meeting.

Cornett said the city had initially intended to include the Ford Center improvements in an initiative that would go to a vote late next year.

"We got to looking at the timing of this Board of Governors vote in April and realized that best intentions were not going to make it with the Board of Governors. They were going to need a firm financial commitment," Cornett said.

"Why should we expect an NBA franchise to make a long-term commitment to us when we're not willing to make a long-term commitment to the facility?"

Bennett's efforts to move the SuperSonics from Seattle has ended up in court, where a judge will decide whether the team must honor the final three years on its lease at KeyArena, the NBA's smallest venue.

"Mayor Cornett and the city have taken a visionary and appropriate step towards becoming an NBA city," Bennett said in a statement. "I applaud their leadership."

Dan Mahoney, a spokesman for Bennett, said the owner would have no further comment.

Cornett said he had spoken with the NBA and had preliminary discussions about a lease with the SuperSonics, but the decision to seek public funding for the upgrades was not forced upon him. NBA commissioner David Stern said during an April visit that the Ford Center, which cost only $89 million to build, did not necessarily need upgrades to host an NBA team permanently.

"This is a choice that we're making. No one's making us do this," Cornett said. "I would say that this is an investment in Oklahoma City, this is an investment in an Oklahoma City-owned arena. We will own it. No one else is going to own these facilities that we're going to build with this money."

While the Ford Center was suitable for an NBA team on a temporary basis, Cornett said he believes upgrades are needed for a long-term arrangement. As for what changes would be made to the arena, he said "everything is on the table, everything about that building is going to be under study."

Cornett said a new NBA tenant would have input on the arena changes and in choosing a location for the practice facility.

"It's basically going to be a brand new arena. It's basically going to seem like this is a brand new place, fully comparable to the other venues in the country that have recently opened up," Cornett said.

"This is not a small upgrade. This is not new carpet and new paint," Cornett added. "This will have the look and feel of a different building."

Copyright © 2007 The Seattle Times Company

[HOT ROD]

NewsOK: Pechman becomes latest judge in Sonics-Seattle court battle

Fri December 21, 2007

Pechman becomes latest judge in Sonics-Seattle court battle
By Darnell Mayberry
Staff Writer

Yet another twist has taken shape in the court case between the city of Seattle and the Sonics.

A new judge has been appointed to decide whether the Sonics must play in Seattle through 2010 or will be free to relocate to Oklahoma City before their lease expires. It's the latest development in what's been an eventful case since the city of Seattle filed its original lawsuit against the Sonics on Sept. 24.

U.S. District Court Judge Marsha Pechman now becomes the fourth judge to oversee the case after replacing Judge Ricardo Martinez on Tuesday, court documents show. The case also had two different judges while it was in state court.

It's unclear why Pechman replaced Martinez or which side requested the change.

Legal representatives for the Sonics and the city of Seattle couldn't be reached for comment Thursday.

Before the case was reassigned to Pechman, however, Martinez made statements and rulings that appeared more favorable for the city of Seattle.

When the Sonics' attorneys applied to have the case heard by a panel of arbitrators, Martinez responded in writing by saying that the team's Oklahoma-based ownership group's arguments to terminate their lease early were "as errant as a typical Shaquille O'Neal free throw.”

Martinez also denied the Sonics' request to expedite the trial because of the timelines involved in the relocation process. Instead, Martinez issued a customary trial schedule, which potentially could drag out until early 2009 and prevent the Sonics from relocating to Oklahoma City next season unless an out-of court settlement is reached.

Pechman has served as a federal judge since 1999, when she was endorsed in part by then-Senator Slade Gorton, who is now the lead attorney representing the city of Seattle.

[jbrown84]

Perhaps he was taken off the case for making those extremely biased comments to the media before the case was even tried. Doesn't seem appropriate.

[HOT ROD]

I hope so Jbrown, that judge was sounding just like the city of Seattle council, or a Sonics homer. He couldn't even or never did phrase a sentence properly and appeared to be somebody right from Rainier Beach in South Seattle.

He sounded as if he were taunting Bennett while also being a pompass jerk (reflecting HIS authority to decide the case). And this was highlighted on his denial of change of venue and what he said about arbitration. ...

I hold hope that he was removed, as you said, because of his apparent incompetence and bias but we must consider that his replacement was appointed to her post by none other - than Slade 'the blade' Gordon, who just so happens to be the city of Seattle's primary attorney. ....

I wonder why this was not allowed to be tried at a more MUTUAL court like in say - Denver!! It seems as tho everybody in downtown Seattle was either appointed by, has an alliance to, or is somehow otherwise connected to the city of Seattle and/or the State of Washington - regardless of the designation of the court.

Now how could Bennett EVER get a fair hearing with this bull-crap? I hope somebody will get this moved to a more even playing field, if so - surely Bennett will win.

So go vote YES on the Ford Center rebuild OKC. Get ready! Invest in your city, it WILL be worth it!

Make it so that the NBA Board has only one decision, approve the OKC relocation for 2008!!! Continue the Renaissance!!

[Kerry]

Don't expect this new judge to last long either. This will end up in a Denver court pretty soon.

[jbrown84]

but we must consider that his replacement was appointed to her post by none other - than Slade 'the blade' Gordon, who just so happens to be the city of Seattle's primary attorney. ....

That's a conflict of interest if I've ever heard one.

[HOT ROD]

Definitely JB,

Im hoping that Clay's people sieze this and motion again for a change in venue. It appears that there are NO JUDGE here who doesn't have ties or some special interest to Slade The Blade, the city clowncil, the mayor mc goo, or the Grovernor!!

And you guys thought Seattle was so liberal. ... We got one of the LARGEST good ole boy networks here, and it's in our courts/civic government (not necessarily business, like OKC's is I suppose)!

There is NO REASON why Bennett's request for Denver should have been denied. I mean, the team owners reside in Oklahoma City and it is the owners who want to move the team/get out of the lease. ...

That decision in itself was a conflict and IM sure will be used should there be an appeal to the Circuit Court.

[HOT ROD]

Guys, this is VERY VERY intersting.. ...

From the excerpt:

Expert: A fine team wasted in New Orleans - NBA - MSNBC.com

"" So the thinking in some quarters is the league forced Shinn back to New Orleans so he'll sell and then they can move the team and fill the deserving Oklahoma City market and perhaps work out something with Seattle for an arena with a local ownership group.

It's all highly speculative stuff, of course, but it's difficult to see how New Orleans is going to be able to support an NBA team at such a time of despair and rebuilding. It's going to make it that much more difficult for one of the better and more interesting young teams in the NBA. ""



People all around are getting very upset with the Hornet's situation in New Orleans. They were HANDED a fresh financially stable team (thanks to OKC) and look at the attendance (last in the league, AGAIN). They even discounted tix (which many N.O. posters accused OKC of doing yet the team was profitable in OKC) but still can't fill the arena, even when good teams show up. Im not saying that the arena should be packed, but I'd think 15,000 middle of the pack avg should be achieved just like higher figures are expected for everyone else (those people frowned when OKC didn't sell out every game, well it wasn't OKC's team yet).

Not to knock New Orleans or anything but they just aren't a basketball town. They are a NFL Saints city, through and true; nobody will argue that and they have a GREAT tradition. .. But New Orleans never supported the Hornets, not today and not three years ago. New Orleans didn't even support the New Orleans Jazz, which is why they now call Salt Lake their home. ...

Have to wonder how long the league will let this team fail while they're trying to move the Sonics to OKC. .. It just doesn't make sense, regardless of the EXCUSES New Orleaners will come up with. ...

anyways, this is a great read and it is getting some attention, definitely from Seattle (who are looking forward to the potential OKC vs. Seattle court rivalries already). ..

[Kerry]

While this is good news for OKC it still doesn't help Seattle. They still need a new arena and don't have any way to pay for it.

[HOT ROD]

Exactly. ...

It appears the dreamers and homers on the SeaTimes forums are still holding out hope that some miracle "definitely will happen".

I think it is time they realize that OKC is going to get a team, and they should start talking up the Hornets moving moreso than chomping on about how OKC wont get a team or this or that bullcrap they keep saying. Oh, better yet - how about a new arena in Seattle. .. o wait.

... as far as an arena in Seattle - aint going to happen. We passed a new initiative in november that requires a 2/3 majority vote for tax increases (be it in the house or at the polls).

I forget the initiative/referendum number, but it passed with flying colours. No arena in Seattle, NO TIME soon. OKC Supersonics/Storm or OKC Hornets (without N.O.),

whichever . ..

[BDP]

Well, honestly, moving the Hornets back to OKC is the best solution for all and mitigates the most damage. I am not one that wants to see New Orleans suffer any more than it already has, but the support there is worse than Seattle, its history is no where near what the Sonics' history in Seattle is, and I think the players would welcome a move back to OKC as they know what is waiting for them here. I just don't know what it would take for this to happen.

Meanwhile, Seattle seems to be dead set on dragging it out in the courts to make it as expensive as possible for all parties involved. The players have no appreciation for what the Oklahoma City market could do for their team at this point and it would end a long standing relationship with Seattle for the NBA.

I know Seattle is bent out of shape right now with what Bennett and co. are doing, but really, when you look at it objectively, it's the NBA that's putting the screws to them by using Bennett to fix the market and get Oklahoma City a team. The Hornets should be in OKC and Kansas City should be the one applying the pressure in 2010 to fix Seattle when you really think about it. The current plan of action will end up being the most expensive, litigious, convoluted when its all said and done. If Oklahoma City passes the Ford Center improvements, it will have done more than New Orleans and Seattle for the NBA, but will have to wait on dozens of federal rulings before it can see itself get a team.

[Kerry]

Here is the deal - the NBA in Seattle is dead. The City of Seattle has seen to that. If the Hornets do come back to OKC next year then the Sonics are going to KC. If the Hornets stay in NO then Sonics come to OKC and then the Hornets go to KC in 3 years. Either way NO and Seattle will be out a team.

There is one group in Seattle that has offered to buy the team but the leader of that group says they don't have the money (not sure how that actually qualifies as an offer). His biggest mistake has already been made though. He said that he could make the team work in the current Key Arena. Let us say he did buy the team but then finds out he can't make it work. How the hell is going to ask for a new arena then? Now the NBA is stuck again. No way the NBA is going to allow that to heppen.

[BDP]

If the Hornets come to OKC, then Seattle will inherent some time to undo some of its mistakes and build an arena. If the Sonics are going to go to KC, it will first need some owners that are interested in locating there and, of course, approval from the league and then (re)start the process of getting a judge to end the Key lease. Again, this adds time even more time to the process. A lot can change in three years and it's likely to take about that amount of time for a Sonics to KC deal to get done.

[Kerry]

Here is how I see the lawsuit situation - until a judge actually give a verdict in the case then the Sonics can do what ever they want. If the team moves to OKC before a ruling then what are the options? A judge can tell the team to return to Seattle for the remainder of the lease or stay in OKC. Since the judge, by virtue of his ruling, says that Seattle is not entitled to any releif as outlined in the lease agreement then Seattle can't even collect unpaid rent. Basically this mean the Sonics leave and don't owe anything.

If the Sonics have to return to Seattle then it would only be through 2010. But what if the case drags out past that. After all, it is only 2.5 years away and there are lots of appeals available to both sides so it is not out of the realm of posssibility. This means the team will never have to return. The bottom line is the Sonics are coming to OKc for the 2008 season unless a judge rules otherwise BEFORE then. A ruling after the fact doesn't do Seattle any good.

[BDP]

Since the judge, by virtue of his ruling, says that Seattle is not entitled to any releif as outlined in the lease agreement then Seattle can't even collect unpaid rent.

I missed that one. Can you share the language he used?

Your scenario may actually play out. I was just trying to point out that a Hornets relocation to OKC mitigates more damages to all parties than any other scenario. However, I in no way actually think that's going to happen at this point, almost by virtue of the fact that it's the prettiest solution.

[Kerry]

BDP - Here is what I was trying to say. The Sonics has a lease with the City of Seattle. In articale XXVI there are provisison for what happens if the Sonics break the lease and leave. I believe it is clause 4 that states the Sonics will owe unpaid rent throught the remainder of the lease minus any rent the City collects from other activities that takes place on the dates that were reserved for Sonics games.

Just for fun, lets say July 1, 2008 comes around and Bennett moves the Sonics to OKC and there has not been any decision yet on the Seattle lawsuit. Two months later the judge makes a ruling in the case and it is in Seattle's favor. The judge has 2 options.

First, the Judge can make the team move back to Seattle, but the Sonics can appeal and keep it tied up in the courts until the lease expires in 2010. Then there is nothing the City of Seattle or the Judge can do. Under this scenario the team stay in OKC after July 1 , 2008 and never returns to Seattle.

Second, the Judge could allow the team to stay in OKC, but can he make the team pay under the penality clause for breaking the lease? In my opinion, and I could be talked out of it, it means that the penalties in section XXVI don't apply because the Sonics didn't break the lease. Remember, the lawsuit filed by the City of Seattle is intended to enforce "specific performance" by removing the exit clause under Section XXVI and not let the Sonics use it. In other words, if the Sonics can't use Section XXVI to leave, then how can the City use it to collect damages when the damages are applied only if the Sonics use that section to break the lease.

A little confusing but I hope you can follow it. I probably need Phineas J. Whoopee and his 3-D Blackboard to explain it better. (that is a little Tennessee Tuxedo humor thrown in).

[HOT ROD]

unfortunately Kerry, there is ONE MORE SCENARIO.

I am positive that Bennett will get the nod to move the Sonics to OKC and that OKC will improve the Ford Center to make OKC and the arena competitive and attractive as an NBA city. No doubt about that.

The question is 1) does the NBA give Bennett permission to move immediately OR 2) do they tie a string attached which says you can move the team pending the litigation. If 2) is chosen, then Bennett will have to wait until the decision comes down before he could call the moving vans.

BUT here is where I answer your scenario. What if 1) is the case and Bennett calls the moving vans for departure on Oct 31 2008 (or say July, as in your scenario) - well, the city could file for an INJUNCTION to prevent the move,

and most likely, the city will win that. Seattle actually did this with the NFL when the Seahawks almost left for Los Angeles. The moving vans were packed and everything, yet the city (Slade the Blade) went to the courts and prevented the move, then brokered a deal that got Paul Allen the ownership chair and Qwest Field built. The Seahawks actually getting ready to move was the final straw that LIT THE FIRE under Seattle's ass, so to say.

I feel similar elements might occur should Bennett decide to move prior to the judge's ruling. I believe Seattle would file and would be granted the injunction because the case is still being heard in, you guessed it - Seattle. And we've already discussed the loyalty factor between the judges in the downtown Seattle clubhouse (I see it also applies to federal judges as well) and how these judges are all hooked in somehow with the plaintiffs - city/Slade the Blade.

HOWEVER, I believe it will end with the injunction (there wont be a deal brokered and surely Bennett would just leave in 2010 then). Even if the city is granted an injunction to prevent an "early" move, that will be that. There is NO WAY we will vote to build an arena. There is NO WAY Bennett will sell the franchise and nobody will 'force' him to. And finally, there is no way that Seattle should prevail in court unless STRINGS ARE BEING PULLED!!!

I imagine that the real issue of why the court is even taking so long, is they are probably meeting behind the scenes with Slade the Blade trying to figure out how the lease is enforcable - aka cohersion. Otherwise, if it were so clean-cut and full proof as many Seattle fans want to believe (not to mention it being in a WA federal court), then what's taking so long???

Bennett isn't dragging it out, the city is. And usually, we all have seen that the guilty ones/loser are the parties who try to drag it out and prolong the inevitable. That is the way I see it, Seattle knows the lease should be broken - that is why they didn't want to go to arbitration or have the case heard by an impartial court.

the city of Seattle wants the case tried in its front yard where they control the judges, because they know otherwise - they will lose, and quickly!!!

Im sure Bennett will appeal any and all of this Seattle stoop doop shenanigans and subsequent scratch my back ruling in favor of the city. And surely, Bennett will win that appeal if nothing else, based on the Seattle court's improper handling of the case and probable cohersion with the city/officials like Slade the Blade who appointed the court judges. .... ....

[HOT ROD]

I wanted to respond to BDP with regard to the Hornets/Sonics. I agree that it might be easier in some respects to let OKC have its Hornets and let somebody else (vegas, KC) deal with the Sonics and Seattle.

But, I disagree that we should let Seattle get off so easy. Im sure they'd probably let the team go if somebody other than OKC (or a LOWER CITY) were trying to get it. Guys, Im confident that this is Seattle trying to save its face - pretending it's such a major city, when in fact Seattle is just another 3M metro. Nowhere near the league of the large cities NY, Chi, LA, SF, DC, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Boston, Miami; even though Seattle likes to pretend they are.

And, since Seattle is a fare-weathered town, I think it diminishes the HISTORY aspect that you speak of. It's not like Seattle has really any history to begin with other than ONE championship 30+ years ago (were you even alive then??) and the runs during the Michael Jordan/Bulls dominated 1990's. I loved Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton then but Michael and the Bulls were numero Uno for me, and most people for that matter.

So, what history?? If Seattle was SUCH a sports town, that despite it's last (and only by the way) championship being so long ago - they are still so die hard in supporting the Sonics. Despite having a labeled 'carpetbagger' owner they still pack the NBA's smallest arena night in and out, regardless of the wins/losses and/or whose the opponent. If Seattle had multi-million dollar media deals like the mariners regularly get and the Seahawks have been getting of late - something which Seattleites like to tout-their-horns about since they are so RICH/Large, well, if they were doing this for the lowly Sonics, ... then I'd agree with your argument BDP that Seattle should be given benefit of doubt and allowed the team.

however, none of the above is true. Seattle fans are fairweathered, they only support the Sonics (or Seahawks for that matter) if they win or if a big opponent comes to town. The media contract (or lack thereof) pales in comparison to peer cities, despite the fact that Seattle is supposed to be so rich and populated - Denver, a smaller city and mark, has MORE TEAMS (say 5) and better support for all of them and better media/corporate support than does Seattle with its Microsoft, Amazon, WAMU, Costco, Boeing (origin) corporate crap. I say Denver deserves their teams, but Seattle is a two team city (ok, MLS would make it three and we have to wait until 2009 to see how they will do here).

that's it, Seattle is a two league town. Nothing wrong with that, there are other 3M metros who are, yet for Seattle to lose its 3 league status and especially lose a team to OKC (a 1.3M metro who Seattle has NO RESPECT for) - well, that's fighting words ;;;; and is the ONLY reason why the city clowncil is 'all of sudden' concerned and interested in enforcing the lease (other than being re-elected this and next years elections).

Im sorry, but I say it like it is - and I dont placate Seattle just because they had the Sonics for 40 years. Do they have the same HISTORY that Chicago does for the bulls, or Boston does for the Celtics, or even LA does for the Lakers, dare I say EVEN Dallas does for its Mavs??? NO

so why should anybody put Seattle on that pedistal (that it's so USED to being put on) and lump it in with the major markets. Come on, Seattle is NO DIFFERENT than Minneapolis or Phoenix - just another large metro trying to play with the big boys (NY, Chi, LA, SF).

I dont think OKC should back down to that, not at all. Furthermore, look at what Bennett is bringing to OKC - TWO TEAMS!!! You would have the Ford Center packed ALL YEAR LONG, which will more than pay for the 1 cent year extension tax that will bring the arena to the upper crust of the league. 41 NBA home games PLUS (at least) 20 WNBA games, plus the two minor league teams plus concerts plus collegiate (OCU, OU, OSU, NCAA, Big XII) events - there will (AND SHOULD) always be something happening at the Ford Center and you guys surely will get a positive return on your investment. With Shinn, comes the Hornets and just 41 games (if that, he might still try to farm out some home games).

I say, dont back down OKC. You hold all of the cards. Do what it takes to get the Sonics/Storm franchise! Improve Ford Center to put pressure on the NBA and make it that much easier for Bennett to bring the franchise home.

dont let Seattle off, OKLAHOMA CITY needs to deliver the WAKE-UP call to Seattle (and the supposed big slap in the face by the team moving). OKC will benefit for the forseeable future to come.

I also hope OKC is aware of Boeing's desire to not build the 737 replacement in WA. OKC should go after the 737 new airplane like there is NO TOMORROW!!!

Get the Sonics. Get the 737 new airplane. Get Northrup. Get Piper. So on!! Move Forward OKC, and don't let somebody else SHAME YOU into settling for 2nd best again. Go for 1st!!!

[BDP]

BDP - Here is what I was trying to say...

That's is an interesting take on it and I don't know if it has been argued or could be successfully argued, but it should be tried if necessary. I am not sure if a judges ruling that negates the exit clause negates the penalties clause as well, but, in a way, there is some logic to it. However, removing the exit clause, in my opinion, simply means that they can not leave even if they pay damages. But that does create a paradox, because I'm not sure if any lease or even any contract can be enforced in that way. Can you make someone do business against their will even if they are willing to pay damages for non execution?

It's funny because that scenario, if played out sounds like this:

1) Seattle says there is no exit and you can't just buy you way out
2) Sonics exit anyway
3) Seattle sues for the damages they said weren't applicable in the first place.

Should be interesting.

I wanted to respond to BDP with regard to the Hornets/Sonics...

I think your assesment of the Seattle market and their conduct is correct. But, when it comes down to it, I don't care. Honestly, as a past and potential future NBA consumer, I just want access to product. I have no personal vendetta against Seattle and I wouldn't see the location of any other team in OKC as letting Seattle off easy or a failure on the part of Oklahoma City. Personally, I'd just see it was a way to not have to deal with their crap. The way I see it, the goal is not necessarily the Sonics, it's the NBA.

But, of course, the Hornets scenario is far from reality at this point and, because of that, I agree that Bennett and Oklahoma City should in no way give up on the Sonics and hope they won't. However, if the Hornets move did become a possibility, well, then let's get out of the courts, and move on with a team that already appreciates the market. I'd have no problem letting KC or Vegas clean up the Seattle mess while I'm hanging club level at an NBA game downtown.

[jbrown84]

What continues to baffle me is Seattle's insistence upon burning bridges. They have burned bridges with the owner of the team they supposedly want to stay. They have burned bridges with the NBA and Stern.

If they really want to keep the team, why are they doing everything possible to piss off the owner and the NBA? If they just want to get some money out of it, why don't they just let Bennett pay the damages and not spend millions on litigation?

It makes no sense. I just really have no idea what their thinking.

[Kerry]

jbrown84 - They are doing the only thing can do. Seattle cannot afford to build a new arena. I am not sure they can afford to remodel Key either for that matter. This is probably why they have not announced any kind of plan. Seattle dropped the ball a long time go. Instead of planing for growth in the region, they spent all of their time fighting each other on everything. Then when it came time to actually do something they had to throw things together at the last minute. Their problem now is the the "last minute" has already passed on the Sonics and they are fresh out of cash and ideas.

[HOT ROD]

Excellent summary Kerry and I totally agree.

We (Seattle) have let ourselves bloom to the point that our infrastructure is one of the worst in the nation. And, to save face - we sat up and destroyed a perfectly functional (yet sometimes dangerous) and unpaid for Kingdome and built two stadiums for two franchises, but neglected the other.

Now, you're right - there is no more money and certainly much more difficult to raise taxes. Certainly a 1 cent sales tax would pay for it (just like it does in OKC) but nobody would go for that here (since we like to push things on other people, we go for restaurant/hotel tax increases).

And Seattle is just large enough (well, King County is) to where a restaurant/hotel tax sends in some cash - but nowhere near the 1 cent sales tax in OKC. In fact, OKC's tax generates more cash than would the same tax if in Seattle; We'd need it to be a King County tax since MOST of the shopping options and population is outside of Seattle (not like in OKC where the city has everything). but that is an aside.

We're stuck and the city wants to save face again and play like Bennett is a bully and trying to get sympathy for "losing its 40 year franchise". You've heard some people fall for that crap around the nation, saying that Seattle shouldnt lost their team or how can OKC STEAL a 40 year franchise.

And like I said, if Seattle supported the Sonics with a large die-hard fanbase (like in Chicago, NY, LA), then I'd agree with that statement. but Seattle is a fairweathered city who can only support 2 of the 4 major major-league teams at one time (and that is MLB and NFL here, in that order!!!). Like was said by someone on the SeaTimes forum,

Seattle is acting like the kid who has a toy but never plays with it or wants it until somebody comes along and takes it away - then out of spite, the kid does what he can to make life miserable for the new owner.

-- BDP, I agree and was not specifically addressing my entire message to you. I know it is in OKC's best interest to get ANY team it can get its hands on, and honestly the Hornets should have NEVER left. But I was just saying that OKC should not give up on the Sonics just to placate Seattle, since OKC is in the lead on this and should prevail. And it would be very nice to have a city (up and coming yet often laughed at) like OKC put the smack-down on the more established brand name that Seattle thinks it is.

That's why I said, hopefully OKC will go aftger the 737 new airplane assembly and other Seattle area businesses. Dont let up, the goods are here for the taking!!!! but yes, I do agree with you BDP, if the Hornets want to leave NO then OKC should be the NATURAL destination (assuming that the Sonics are not in OKC yet).

If anything, Stern should have "forced, if you will" Shinn to sell majority interest in the Hornets to Bennett - Seattle fans are definitely thinking this; but one things' for sure, most truly now believe OKC deserves a team (and that's a change from last year. ..)