Will OKC ever grow to get a new tower downtown?

[ETL]

I am new to this site and was just wondering if we will ever get a new high-rise tower down town, so tell me what you think. Also, I have heard people say that we are like San Antonio as to how it was 10 years ago. Is this true?

[Pete]

Welcome to the site!

Currently, the vacancy rate in downtown OKC is pretty high, so it's unlikely new space will be developed any time soon. Especially now that Kerr McGee is leaving and may dump their tower onto the open market as well.

Also, construction prices (concrete, steel) have gone through the roof and new buildings would have a very hard time competing with the older stuff for at competitive rates.

One good thing is that some older, class B&C buildings are being redeveloped into housing and other uses, so that reduces the inventory somewhat.


Would love to see a new tower downtown but I don't see it happening in the near future.

[BDP]

I think Malibu is right. The best bet was probably for a hotel tower as that is what was in most demand, but that market is being filled mostly with smaller properties and, of course, the great Skirvin and Colcord projects.

I'd like to see what we have filled and/or renovated first. That will create density and vibrancy which would hopefully increase services. At that point you might see a domino effect in demand which could warrant a tower. Until then, I don't think it's very smart to just build more vacancy, which is really the net affect of all our suburban building.

The other possibility would be a high rise residential property. I don't have any real numbers, but it seems high rise condo construction leads most new tower constructions right now. I was in Chicago recently and there's one going up on every block. So much that they will have to build their first school downtown in years.

But again, the demand here is being met with low rise condo and townhouse developments. This could create real self contained neighborhoods that OKC hasn't seen in decades. If this really does happen a domino effect could again create enough demand to support a new tower.

As long as we can avoid saturation and vacancy it will happen in maybe the next 20 years. You have to keep in mind that even the current projects were hatched years ago and most still have yet to come online. If downtown can actually achieve some real residential density, then I guess anything is possible. But for now, I think there is enough property downtown to foster a great urban environment, even with our suburban sprawl mentality.

[Pete]

Even when Leadership Square was completed in the early 80's, all it did was cannibalize other downtown buildings (my employer moved from another DT site, for example) and that's never a good thing.

I know the space we vacated stayed empty for a very long time -- at least 10 years!

[Bobby H]

The United States on the whole is moving away from the whole edifice complex in desiring skyscrapers.

Lots of companies that used to maintain headquarters in the downtowns of major cities have moved out to large, yet low profile, campus like digs in the suburbs. A good example of this was JCPenny. They used to have a big office tower, but in the early 1990s they relocated to the North Dallas suburbs. Their current HQ is a spread out and well landscaped site off Legacy Drive.

I agree about materials prices also negatively influencing new skyscraper construction in the United States. There's a lot of other factors at work too. Over the last decade we've seen lots of places in Asia take over in the need to build really tall buildings. Over there it kind of makes sense with all the lack of space in cities like Hong Kong. The United States is getting pretty crowded in some areas, but we still have lots of wide open spaces elsewhere.

With the ever increasing speed of the Internet and growing power and sophistication of computers, if anything many American businesses are going to get even more decentralized. We're going to see a huge boom in "telecommuting." Just get a laptop, a good webcam and enough Internet bandwidth and you can work from anywhere.

In short, skyscapers look great for a city skyline, but in function they are largely obsolete.

[BDP]

if anything many American businesses are going to get even more decentralized. We're going to see a huge boom in "telecommuting."

Are you posting from the 80s?

Just kidding.

It seems like we've been hearing that for years and it's never really materialized. However, decentralization + rising transportation costs might just make mass "telecommuting" a reality.

I think your overall perspective is pretty accurate. However, a lot of the bigger and more desirable American cities are building high rises again and have been for a few years, many of which are residential. We'll see if rising interest rates bust that or not.

[Pete]

The problem with telecommuting is that it doesn't work.

It's still done, largely when a very employee negotiates it as part of his or her deal, but most companies have pulled back from this experiment.


However, there is definitely a trend towards office parks rather than high-rises. Certainly, in OKC there has been tons of office space built in the last 25 years, but almost none of it over 4 stories tall.

[ETL]

You guys are such a great help! Also, I have heard people compare OKC to San Antonio as it was 10 years ago. Is this true?

[shane453]

I can see a comparison between OKC and San Antonio, with Riverwalk and such, but I sure hope we don't become San Antonio. They are following closely behind Phoenix in becoming one of the most criticized cities for irresponsible land use and sprawl. There isn't much office space downtown and their occupancy is terrible in the CBD, the skyline sucks except for a few hotels... And yeah, they have some new towers going up but not nearly as many as neighbor Austin.

And I think we'll get a residential highrise announcement sometime this year or next year, once these developers working on smaller projects start making money and have enough capital to work on something larger.

[travich]

I can see a comparison between OKC and San Antonio, with Riverwalk and such, but I sure hope we don't become San Antonio. They are following closely behind Phoenix in becoming one of the most criticized cities for irresponsible land use and sprawl. There isn't much office space downtown and their occupancy is terrible in the CBD, the skyline sucks except for a few hotels... And yeah, they have some new towers going up but not nearly as many as neighbor Austin.

And I think we'll get a residential highrise announcement sometime this year or next year, once these developers working on smaller projects start making money and have enough capital to work on something larger.

Oh, Oklahoma City has a HUGE problem urban sprawl. Landwise this is the second largest city next to Jacksonville Florida and there's strips, commercial buildings, etc. every where you go. I believe we're already there.

[BDP]

...irresponsible land use and sprawl. There isn't much office space downtown and their occupancy is terrible in the CBD.

hmmmm... That pretty much sounds like OKC already.

[shane453]

Actually, very much of OKC's city limits is undeveloped or rural land, so the fact that we're the second largest city by land area is deceiving. Sure we have a bad land use problem and lots of sprawl, but about 70% of the city's population lives on 30% of the land- meaning without any government action to speak of, we've still kept things relatively compact compared to how bad we COULD have sprawled.

[SOONER8693]

Bobby H, check emporis.com and look at other cities in the U.S. In the last 20 years there has been a boom in the building of high-rise buildings. Many of them are beautiful, well designed buildings that OKC could use a couple of in our skyline.

[okcpulse]

Sure we have a bad land use problem and lots of sprawl, but about 70% of the city's population lives on 30% of the land

If that isn't a contradiction. But true. Oklahoma City doesn't "sprawl" as much as people are led to believe.

Oh, Oklahoma City has a HUGE problem urban sprawl. Landwise this is the second largest city next to Jacksonville Florida and there's strips, commercial buildings, etc. every where you go. I believe we're already there.

As previously mentioned, our sprawl is not as bad as we were led to believe. And, name a southern or southwestern city that doesn't have strip malls.

[jbrown84]

Well San Antonio was in the 60's like we were in the late 80's. Downtown was not a desirable place. The riverwalk at the time was a dirty river that flowed through downtown. They began a lot of things to fix all this including building the riverwalk, which was slow do build up just as ours has been. We have a chance in 20 years to be something like San Antonio.