Randy Hogan is a joke

[Patrick]

In this thread we discuss how much of a laughingston suburbian Lower Bricktown is and how we only wis David Cordish would've been given a crack to develop Lower Bricktown.

[Patrick]

Here's Cordish's latest development in KC: http://www.powerandlightdistrict.com...e/overview.htm

[Patrick]

Here's the string of posts I pulled from another thread :

While trying to remember who Moshe is (I was still in high school at the time) I came across the following website.

http://www.capitalismcenter.org/Initium/09-15-03.htm

Does that pretty much sum up the whole issue with him?
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Interesting article. Of course there's no mention of the bigger picture regarding Tal's proposal and why it (at least in part) was not chosen.

And he's completely misleading when he says that MAPS could have been done privately. We had to have the publicly funded projects as a catalyst to private development.

What was the bigger picture of Tal's proposal?
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Well like you I was in high school at the time, but basically he had this huge proposal including an indoor mall I believe, and he supposedly had all these foreign or east coast investors (why he didn't need public funds) but he would never name who they were and he basically never could back his plan up with real money and finally OCURA gave up on him.

Did I get it right, those who know?
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Moshe Tal's plan was going to be developed along with David Cordish, one of the finest redevelopers of entertainment space in the US. Their plan was to build a three level mall similar to a Galleria style mall, complete with stores like Gucci, Nordstroms, Saks, etc. The mall would've had a smaller 10-12 screen theater on the south side. A parking garage would've been built just to the south of what is the present day Harkins Theater. Cordish had deals from Hard Rock and ESPN Zone to develop here, as those are part of his general portfolio. Hard Rock was to be located where the Sonic building currently sits. ESPN Zone would've been closer to where Toby Keith's is located.

The mall would've stretched from the areas where Hogan is building the 5 story building, around to where the theater and Toby Keith's is located. In the other direction, it would've stretched around across the canal, to approx. where the Sonic Office Building now sits This is just to give you a general idea.

The mall would've been around 2 million square feet, possibly more.

On the east side of the canal, around the Bass Pro area we would've had a Country Music Complex, probably about the size of Bass Pro.

An Arts and Crafts Village was proposed as was the home for the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame, which would've been a much nicer facility than where they're currently located.

Problem was Moshe Tal always said most of his backing was coming from "foreign investors." Who those were, he'd never elaborate on. He also had a couple of letters of financial acceptance/support with Bank One and some other bank.

I think the city was a little concerned about the fact that he was not a developer, and had little to know experience. Also, they were concerned that he was only in this to benefit his existing land, where TK7 Technologies, his business now sits.

I would've liked to have seen him given a chance, especially since Cordish was in the picture. But, one other concern that was always brought up was why Cordish would've been interested in helping Moshe out.

The city did screw him to some extent. Cordish was on his way to OKC to meet with Mayor Humphreys, and they cancelled the meeting while Cordish was in the air on his way here. Needless to say, Cordish himself doesn't have a very good taste in his mouth when it comes to OKC.

BTW, I used to have pictures, but discarded them a few years back....didn't think I'd ever need them again. Sometimes I wish I still had them.
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Talk about burning bridges with Cordish.

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Oh, remember that Cordish fellow? The developer we turned away? Look at what he's doing in downtown Kansas City, MO.

visitkc.com/media_room/whats_new/index.cfm?page=kc_live.htm"]

Even if Moshe Tal didn't have the funds to back it up, Cordish was at least interested. Maybe we could've found a way to work with him. But I digress.
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That's a great reminder of how bad Lower Bricktown was screwed up. I fully understand your apathy. I just think it's good to keep pointing it out until these developers and OCURA finally get it. If you don't develop our prime land in a comprehensive and forward thinking way, you lose both competitive position and that land forever. It's a lot harder and takes a lot longer to fix once its built than to wait and do it right the first time.

hopefully, one day soon the area east of Bricktown can be developed in a more competent manner.
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Reading these posts have made me realize something: I could care less about what happens to "lower" Bricktown anymore. Bass Pro is what ruined it for me. I guess I've just never felt that a huge log-cabin type structure containing a store specializing in such things as camouflaged hunting jackets, stink bait and deer pee belonged in the downtown of a major city.

Am I surprised? No. I knew this would happen with Hogan as a developer. This is Oklahoma after all. Incompetant people run the show here on so many levels.
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Oh, remember that Cordish fellow? The developer we turned away? Look at what he's doing in downtown Kansas City, MO.

visitkc.com/media_room/whats_new/index.cfm?page=kc_live.htm

Even if Moshe Tal didn't have the funds to back it up, Cordish was at least interested. Maybe we could've found a way to work with him. But I digress
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I hear ya. I was the man that preached that we needed to dump Hogan and reconsider Moshe. But, everyone said I was crazy.

By the way, this plan looks very much like his Power Plant Development in Baltimore. Very upscale and trendy!

Here's the website for the district Cordish is developing in KC: http://www.powerandlightdistrict.com...e/overview.htm

While Randy is getting us 30 or 40 lofts, Cordish is building 1200 lofts, an urban grocery store, art galleries, bookstores, a health club, tons of restaurants, etc.

Randy Hogan is a joke. Let me say it again. Randy Hogan is a joke. Let me say it again. Randy Hogan is a joke. Let me say it again. Randy Hogan is a joke. Let me say it again. Randy Hogan is a joke. Let me say it again. Randy Hogan is a joke. Let me say it again. Randy Hogan is a joke. Let me say it again. Randy Hogan is a joke. Let me say it again. Randy Hogan is a joke. Let me say it again. Randy Hogan is a joke.

[Patrick]

A little about the Cordish Company: http://www.powerandlightdistrict.com...outCordish.htm

[Patrick]

Funny thing is one of the few reasons OCURA could come up with for not choosing Tal/Cordish was that the project was "too ambitious." Yup, they actually said that. At the time though, you have to remember Bricktown was still in its infancy. So people did probably think it was too ambitious. This was back in the early 90's afterall.

[jbrown84]

Funny thing is one of the few reasons OCURA could come up with for not choosing Tal/Cordish was that the project was "too ambitious." Yup, they actually said that. At the time though, you have to remember Bricktown was still in its infancy. So people did probably think it was too ambitious. This was back in the early 90's afterall.

Perhaps they were thinking of the failed Galleria mall project or the failed Century Center mall project. But that just means they didn't have the vision that people like Cornett have.

Looking at what we could have had with Cordish, it makes me want to cry--seriously.

[Patrick]

Perhaps they were thinking of the failed Galleria mall project or the failed Century Center mall project. But that just means they didn't have the vision that people like Cornett have.

Looking at what we could have had with Cordish, it makes me want to cry--seriously.

Again, I think the issue with Bricktown2000 wasn't Cordish, it was Tal. It was the claimed financing he had. And at that time, you have to remember, Bricktown was next to nothing and I don't think the city was big on taking chances. This was shortly after the oil bust, and all of the failed projects that resulted from that.

So they may have just gone with Hogan because he did have the financial backing of Stonegate Corp, then known as Torchmark Development Corp (which at that time was a subsidiary of the Fortune 500 Torchmark Corp....something Randy really stressed in his presentations).

I think Randy is a blow hard. That sums it up.

[Midtowner]

Funny thing is one of the few reasons OCURA could come up with for not choosing Tal/Cordish was that the project was "too ambitious." Yup, they actually said that. At the time though, you have to remember Bricktown was still in its infancy. So people did probably think it was too ambitious. This was back in the early 90's afterall.

Reminds me of the movie "Amadeus" when the Emporer tells Mozart that his opera was great, but there were just "Too many notes."

[Patrick]

Here's Cordish's website: http://www.cordish.com/

[Decious]

Patrick, you're killing me dude. I'm pro OKC, but lower Bricktown is Oh, what could have been.....Sigh.

[Patrick]

When you go to Cordish's website, click on New Developments. Check out Ballpark Village in St. Louis, and his original, the Powerplant in Baltimore. Absolutely beautiful. What he's going to be doing in KC isn't too shabby either. Seems like all of his projects comes with at least 1200 residential units. Hogan should be ashamed of himself.

[Patrick]

Here's a pic of the Powerplant in Baltimore:

[okcpulse]

Hmmm... Belle Isle Power Plant could have... should have... would have!

[Patrick]

Looking at Randy's site plan: http://lowerbricktown.com/zoomimage.html

I must say I'm appalled. I can't believe all of the surface parking is goig to remain. Heck, he's about done with his end of the project. Good! Let's get him out of here and get a decent developer in to finish up what Randy screwed up.

[Patrick]

I'm also appalled that this building has stucco on the top three levels.

http://lowerbricktown.com/building1.pdf

[Patrick]

Is anyone else appalled here?

Mick Cornett? Are you listening? Lower Bricktown is a joke! It's Memorial Road, only a canal is there in place of the road.

[Midtowner]

Actually, I think Lower Bricktown has more vacancy than Memorial Road...

[Pete]

Speaking of Belle Isle, the loss of that property in favor of a hideous Wal-Mart center is every bit as bad as what has happened in Lower Bricktown.

I love OKC as much as anyone but we've really screwed up the opportunity to keep and ehance the few pieces of property around town with any real character.

As for LB, I have to agree with everyone else that it's not only a huge disappointment, it's an opportunity that is now gone forever.

[okcpulse]

I wouldn;t say it's gone forever. Just for now. And that's too bad. Now our foucs needs to be on cleaning house with OCURA, weeding out the nonvisionaries and set seom VERY STRINGENT standards on the entire core of Oklahoma City, downtown, Arts District, Bricktown and what's south of I-40.

Now, not too stringent to where it scares away every potential developer... just those that love surface parking and cheap stucco. This has to be citizen-driven, and a cause that will not lose energy.

I had a difficult time getting Oklahoma City Beautiful on board with planting trees along Lake Hefner Parkway, at least I didn;t get a response from them. Now that I am in Texas, I will still try.

What can we really do to run out every substandard developer that wants to be in Bricktown? How loud can we scream. Better yet, how much more loud?

[BG918]

The best thing to do, outside of buying the land yourself and developing something urban, is to keep writing OCURA, your city councilors, the mayor, etc. and let them know developers should not be calling the shots in the urban districts of OKC. Give them examples of larger, progressive cities that through enforced codes have better developed their urban areas. Bricktown still has a chance to be a quality urban district if those surface lots are developed and we start adding more retail and apartments, but it won't happen with Hogan around or codes that let him get away with it.

[John]

There is still hope that someone like Cordish can still make a big impact in OKC (if he doesn't have a sour taste in his mouth, still) in the area between the present day and relocated I-40.

The new gateway to downtown (along with the Triangle) has a chance to be something special, as long as we keep Hogan, Henderson, Box and the 'good ol' boys' from OCURA from screwing anything up!

[Patrick]

There is still hope that someone like Cordish can still make a big impact in OKC (if he doesn't have a sour taste in his mouth, still) in the area between the present day and relocated I-40.

The new gateway to downtown (along with the Triangle) has a chance to be something special, as long as we keep Hogan, Henderson, Box and the 'good ol' boys' from OCURA from screwing anything up!

You'll never see Cordish step foot in Oklahoma again.

[HOT ROD]

Amen brother!

Here, here!

[writerranger]

I'm afraid OCURA doesn't care, as long as you have the money to slide in their pockets. There are a couple of exceptions, but unfortunately they do not a majority make. OCURA needs a Grand Jury investigation. And yes, Patrick, Hogan's "vision" for Lower Bricktown is embarrassing.

[John]

And yes, Patrick, Hogan's "vision" for Lower Bricktown is embarrassing.

I think Ray Charles had better 'vision' than Randy Hogan!