Takaramono (formerly Oak & Ore)

[Pete]

This is the new Japanese place going into the old Oak & Ore space in the Plaza.

Looks pretty ambitious.

[OkieBerto]

This looks amazing and I really want to try it, but I am still so worried about places that want to do fancy in the Plaza. This looks more Paseo or Classen Curve or even maybe Midtown.

[PhiAlpha]

This looks amazing and I really want to try it, but I am still so worried about places that want to do fancy in the Plaza. This looks more Paseo or Classen Curve or even maybe Midtown.

Who cares where it goes? If it’s good, It will draw a crowd. Ma Der Lao isn’t exactly a dive bar and it has done very well. Good for a Few is a nicer bar/restaurant that seems to be doing well. The Jonathan Stranger concept will also be more upscale than a lot of the places down there. I think people tend to forget that the district is anchored by a performance theater as well. As shown by the Paseo, variety in a district is a good thing.

[OkieBerto]

Who cares where it goes? If it’s good, It will draw a crowd. Ma Der Lao isn’t exactly a dive bar and it has done very well. Good for a Few is a nicer bar/restaurant that seems to be doing well. The Jonathan Stranger concept will also be more upscale than a lot of the places down there. I think people tend to forget that the district is anchored by a performance theater as well. As shown by the Paseo, variety in a district is a good thing.

There are so many factors to opening a restaurant that the owners SHOULD care about. The type of people who like high end places like this will want good parking for free close to the door, or have a valet system. If you look at this location in general in the Plaza, Oak & Ore struggled or years to get people in their doors. I was actually surprised at how long it lasted.

You also make a point about the Theater, which correct me if I am wrong, owns the parking lot next to this location. If there are theater events going on there will be no parking at all. Employees will also have to walk a long way and likely leave their vehicles parked on a street in the neighborhood.

Good for a Few works because it is attached to a very popular Burger Joint. We all know we like New State, therefore we want to go to the bar. Ma Der Lao actually struggled before Chef Jeff was recognized as a James Beard nominee. I lived a block from the Plaza when he first opened it and it was very dead even during busy times. If it is good enough I hope it gets a lot of business. I want places like this to succeed. I just wish they understood the location better.

You are also forgetting that a similar restaurant just opened two doors down.

[PhiAlpha]

There are so many factors to opening a restaurant that the owners SHOULD care about. The type of people who like high end places like this will want good parking for free close to the door, or have a valet system. If you look at this location in general in the Plaza, Oak & Ore struggled or years to get people in their doors. I was actually surprised at how long it lasted.

You also make a point about the Theater, which correct me if I am wrong, owns the parking lot next to this location. If there are theater events going on there will be no parking at all. Employees will also have to walk a long way and likely leave their vehicles parked on a street in the neighborhood.

Good for a Few works because it is attached to a very popular Burger Joint. We all know we like New State, therefore we want to go to the bar. Ma Der Lao actually struggled before Chef Jeff was recognized as a James Beard nominee. I lived a block from the Plaza when he first opened it and it was very dead even during busy times. If it is good enough I hope it gets a lot of business. I want places like this to succeed. I just wish they understood the location better.

You are also forgetting that a similar restaurant just opened two doors down.

There is more than enough parking down there. I don’t think there is some massive urban core demographic that will only eat at restaurants they can park directly in front of at this point. But also, you don’t know that they won’t have valet service or that the price point of the food is something that would warrant it. Making a lot of assumptions here.

Yes the theater will use the parking lot next to it and the one down the street that people manage to use when they dress up and somehow find it within themselves to walk a few blocks to the theater. Also, are these unique theater goers that don’t eat or get drinks before/after a show? Seems like it might be the type of crowd to seek out a slightly nicer place than the mule, the press or empire to hit up before or after their show. It’s a built in advantage.

I wouldn’t consider oak and ore fancy nor would I say that price point or poor fit for the area caused them to fail. I think it had much more to do with lack of marketing, stagnation, a plethora of additional options opening nearby without it offering anything super unique, and I’m sure Covid probably hurt it worse than many places because of all of that. I can’t even remember if they offered food there…seems like something one who frequented the area should’ve known of the top of my head. That said it lasted for most of a decade so I’d hardly consider that a complete failure.

“Ma Der Lao struggled before Chef Jeff got the James Beard award” was that because of the location (where Goro seemed to do very well for several years) or was it because no one outside of OKCTalk followers knew it was there or what Laotian food consists of? There are a lot of things owners should care about and effective marketing/branding is way more important than “if their restaurant is too luxurious for the diverse and highly trafficked district that I want to put my restaurant in”. Pete has mentioned it a ton but this is one area that many owners here either don’t understand or don’t care about and I would guess it kills more restaurants than anything.

Putting your restaurant in a very popular district, that probably has some of the highest foot traffic in the state, across from a performance theater is not a bad choice of location. Hell Rocco worked on an island in what was a horrible part of town for most of their time there. If they market themselves well, provide a good experience and the food is good…it will work. Don’t do those things and it won’t.

[OkieBerto]

There is more than enough parking down there. I don’t think there is some massive urban core demographic that will only eat at restaurants they can park directly in front of at this point. But also, you don’t know that they won’t have valet service or that the price point of the food is something that would warrant it. Making a lot of assumptions here.

Yes the theater will use the parking lot next to it and the one down the street that people manage to use when they dress up and somehow find it within themselves to walk a few blocks to the theater. Also, are these unique theater goers that don’t eat or get drinks before/after a show? Seems like it might be the type of crowd to seek out a slightly nicer place than the mule, the press or empire to hit up before or after their show. It’s a built in advantage.

I wouldn’t consider oak and ore fancy nor would I say that price point or poor fit for the area caused them to fail. I think it had much more to do with lack of marketing, stagnation, a plethora of additional options opening nearby without it offering anything super unique, and I’m sure Covid probably hurt it worse than many places because of all of that. I can’t even remember if they offered food there…seems like something one who frequented the area should’ve known of the top of my head. That said it lasted for most of a decade so I’d hardly consider that a complete failure.

“Ma Der Lao struggled before Chef Jeff got the James Beard award” was that because of the location (where Goro seemed to do very well for several years) or was it because no one outside of OKCTalk followers knew it was there or what Laotian food consists of? There are a lot of things owners should care about and effective marketing/branding is way more important than “if their restaurant is too luxurious for the diverse and highly trafficked district that I want to put my restaurant in”. Pete has mentioned it a ton but this is one area that many owners here either don’t understand or don’t care about and I would guess it kills more restaurants than anything.

Putting your restaurant in a very popular district, that probably has some of the highest foot traffic in the state, across from a performance theater is not a bad choice of location. Hell Rocco worked on an island in what was a horrible part of town for most of their time there. If they market themselves well, provide a good experience and the food is good…it will work. Don’t do those things and it won’t.

Saying that the Plaza would have substantial national chains reside in it is overdoing it. The only one currently is UP/DOWN.

Saying there is more than enough parking down there makes me think you have never lived in Gatewood or Classen Ten Penn. I was there for four years. The only nights with good parking were when no events were happening, and it was Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday.

The theater seems to be an advantage, but it doesn't have a show every week, so it wouldn't be a consistent source of income for the restaurant.

I never said Oak & Ore was fancy; I was commenting on its location. I agree that Oak & Ore had many problems, and the location wasn't the defining factor in closing. However, it may be the only reason it was open for so long.

Chef Jeff tried another concept before Ma Der Lao. It failed so quickly that most people don't even remember it. Not every restaurant will make it in the Plaza, but we have plenty of examples of what type does.

I just drove by, and there has yet to be much progress. Late Summer doesn't look like it will happen.

[BDP]

The type of people who like high end places like this will want good parking for free close to the door, or have a valet system. I

People who walk don't like high end food? I'm not sure what the reasoning for that would be.

In any event, I don't think I've ever had to park more than a block off of 16th, unless there is a festival or special event, and have never paid for parking around there. In an urban area, that is good parking for free close to the door. Valet is always nice (though not free), but if places started offering valet on 16th, that would get annoying pretty fast, If they really don't want to walk, they could also use ride share,

Obviously, none of that means it will be successful, I just don't think it'd be THE reason it'd fail. If it's good, it will do well, even if the people who never go anywhere they have to walk never set foot in it.

I do think (hope) the two Japenese concept differentiate enough from each other. My main worry would be whether they can co-exist,

[OkieBerto]

People who walk don't like high end food? I'm not sure what the reasoning for that would be.

In any event, I don't think I've ever had to park more than a block off of 16th, unless there is a festival or special event, and have never paid for parking around there. In an urban area, that is good parking for free close to the door. Valet is always nice (though not free), but if places started offering valet on 16th, that would get annoying pretty fast, If they really don't want to walk, they could also use ride share,

Obviously, none of that means it will be successful, I just don't think it'd be THE reason it'd fail. If it's good, it will do well, even if the people who never go anywhere they have to walk never set foot in it.

I do think (hope) the two Japenese concept differentiate enough from each other. My main worry would be whether they can co-exist,

You seem to forget who has most of the money in this City. They are likely not looking to walk far for dinner. So price maybe more of a defining factor when it comes to the success of this restaurant.

[Timshel]

Any idea who's opening it?

[macchiato]

Yuzo recently closed and these photos remind me of it. An izakaya is just a bar, no need to make it "luxury", especially in the plaza of all places. Luxury or High End has never worked there.

[PhiAlpha]

Yuzo recently closed and these photos remind me of it. An izakaya is just a bar, no need to make it "luxury", especially in the plaza of all places. Luxury or High End has never worked there.

What “luxury” restaurants have been tried and failed in the plaza? There was a wine bar that was open for 3-5 years and shut down around Covid but always seemed full prior to that…outside of that, what has “never worked?”

[Jake]

What “luxury” restaurants have been tried and failed in the plaza? There was a wine bar that was open for 3-5 years and shut down around Covid but always seemed full prior to that…outside of that, what has “never worked?”

From what I've gleaned this thread, Plaza's ideal restaurant lineup is identical to a decently nice strip mall in Bixby. When does the Cava open?

[PhiAlpha]

From what I've gleaned this thread, Plaza's ideal restaurant lineup is identical to a decently nice strip mall in Bixby. When does the Cava open?

Probably right after the 5 guys and the chilis. I’d say BJ’s but that might be “too luxurious”

[onthestrip]

I dont understand the comments that this place looks too nice, as if restauranteurs in the plaza need to make their establishments simple and low end. Would Mahogany work in the Plaza? Probably not. But nice places in the Plaza is doable. We dont even know the price point of this concept so these comments are way premature. But bravo to them for aiming high with the design of the space, it looks great in the renderings. If its good food and well run, people will come.

Aslo, we can tell just from the pictures that this place will be much more different than the other Asian food place a couple doors down.

[OkieBerto]

I dont understand the comments that this place looks too nice, as if restauranteurs in the plaza need to make their establishments simple and low end. Would Mahogany work in the Plaza? Probably not. But nice places in the Plaza is doable. We dont even know the price point of this concept so these comments are way premature. But bravo to them for aiming high with the design of the space, it looks great in the renderings. If its good food and well run, people will come.

Aslo, we can tell just from the pictures that this place will be much more different than the other Asian food place a couple doors down.

Ambitious, Fancy, and Luxury were some of the words used. No one said, "It looks too nice!" It has more to do with the amount of money they will have to spend to remodel this space and make it a higher scale. The images of the bar and the place settings are telling us they want a high end experience for their customers. Fast Casual or just Casual in general is what has done well in the Plaza. If prices are high, I think they will struggle.

[Jeepnokc]

I wonder how similar the menu will be with the the other Japanese place going in? Seems it would tough to compete for the food/drink market in the Plaza area let alone against a similar concept

[Pete]

^

23rd & Penn is not a "horrible part of town".

By that standard, 95% of OKC is horrible.

[PhiAlpha]

^

23rd & Penn is not a "horrible part of town".

By that standard, 95% of OKC is horrible.

it was pretty bad compared to all of the areas we’re talking about now, especially in terms of good locations for an expensive restaurant, when they opened and was pretty rough for awhile after that , similar to Cheevers in uptown.

[Pete]

it was pretty bad compared to all of the areas we’re talking about now, especially in terms of good locations for an expensive restaurant, when they opened and was pretty rough for awhile after that , similar to Cheevers in uptown.

Rococo wasn't any more expensive than any of the places in the Plaza which is less than a mile away. And Tony's Italian Specialties had a long and successful run in that same location. Social did well just around the corner.

23rd and Penn has OCU right next door, Shepherd neighborhood is directly west, Gatewood to the south and the rest of the area is just fine.

I get tired of people looking down their noses at anything not Heritage Hills or Edmond. The huge majority of people in OKC live in areas just like this, including yours truly and I love my neighborhood. "Horrible" is a strong and denigrating word.

[PhiAlpha]

Rococo wasn't any more expensive than any of the places in the Plaza which is less than a mile away. And Tony's Italian Specialties had a long and successful run in that same location. Social did well just around the corner.

23rd and Penn has OCU right next door, Shepherd neighborhood is directly west, Gatewood to the south and the rest of the area is just fine.

I get tired of people looking down their noses at anything not Heritage Hills or Edmond. The huge majority of people in OKC live in areas just like this, including yours truly and I love my neighborhood. "Horrible" is a strong and denigrating word.

Again…I didn’t say it was a horrible part of town now or even that recently nor did I say the surrounding neighborhoods were horrible…but that intersection was pretty bad when I moved down here as were the neighborhoods around OCU. Shepherd was fairly nice, Gatewood was coming along (though the northwest corner of it was noticeably farther behind the rest), Las Vegas and Pennville both were very rough aside from a street or two and military park was a little better than OCU/Epworth but not by much. While house hunting, I looked extensively through every neighborhood between downtown and essentially I-44 because I knew little to nothing about it at the time and ended up with a very good feel for the state of that entire area back then. There were also a bunch of dilapidated apartments right next to rococo. Maybe horrible was a strong word but it was certainly close as was most of uptown.

Rococo is/was absolutely quite a bit more expensive than most of the Plaza restaurants, especially vs the plaza restaurants early in its transformation…but again the point was that the spot Roccoco chose in 2003 was far less ideal than the old Oak and Ore space, that several are questioning, is today. It sounds like they will be in the same price range and Rococo has been very successful because it’s a great restaurant…if this restaurant promotes it self and provides a great experience, it will work. If the food or service suck or it’s generally mismanaged…it will fail but it won’t be the location that causes it.

[dankrutka]

People in cities all over the world must be devastated to hear that all nice restaurants require a Walmart parking lot or people with money will refuse to frequent their business! /s

[Oski]

The other Japanese restaurant is just two buildings to the west, so it's likely that at least one will suffer from the competition. Lunch business typically doesn't do well in the Plaza District, it's a great area for brunch and dinner.

[OkieBerto]

People in cities all over the world must be devastated to hear that all nice restaurants require a Walmart parking lot or people with money will refuse to frequent their business! /s

Most other countries think Americans are crazy when it comes to cars and parking. We don't live in a walking state in case you didn't notice. We even have parking requirements for new builds.

[Rover]

Most other countries think Americans are crazy when it comes to cars and parking. We don't live in a walking state in case you didn't notice. We even have parking requirements for new builds.

You’d probably be shocked at some of the traffic jams I've been in in London, Paris, Istanbul, Mexico City, Seoul, Jakarta, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Athens, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Rio, Sao Paolo, and other places you don't seem to think people drive cars.

And in many, many years of my travels I've never had anyone express that they think Americans are crazy when it comes to cars. They mostly think we are rich because so many have one or more.

[OkieBerto]

You’d probably be shocked at some of the traffic jams I've been in in London, Paris, Istanbul, Mexico City, Seoul, Jakarta, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Athens, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Rio, Sao Paolo, and other places you don't seem to think people drive cars.

And in many, many years of my travels I've never had anyone express that they think Americans are crazy when it comes to cars. They mostly think we are rich because so many have one or more.

My statement was a generalization about how we consume. The majority of people who go to coffee shops in the US are just going through a drive thru at Starbucks. I know our way of living is spreading around the world, but for the most part they travel in more diverse ways. Walking, biking, scooters, public transit. We are starting to do the same, but in Oklahoma the Car will be king for a very long time and most people end up driving their SUV to the Plaza and spend 30 minutes trying to find a parking space.

16th still has a high traffic problem with people using it instead of going to 23rd or 10th. That would also seem like a plus for a new restaurant, but more than likely it is actually the opposite for this area.