A suggestion for the old Ford dealership lot

[Oski]

Scissortail Park has been a hit so far, but mostly on late weekends. We’d want to bring a lot more people downtown to hang out, to work, and to live. To do so, we need more shops, more restaurants, more options for people to spend money, but those guys won’t come if there aren’t enough people to support their business, so it’s pretty much a Catch 22. A solution is bringing them downtown all at once, and a mixed use like this one in Rotterdam, Netherlands can do that. It has apartments, condos, food stalls, shops, and underground parking garage and supermarket (yes, I won’t live in downtown until there’s one), all under one roof.

This building will attract local residents and out of state visitors (to the new convention center) alike, encourage companies to move downtown and conferences to choose OKC, and make huge impact on the city’s economy, I can imagine it would lead to the development of many other projects nearby. Aesthetically, it will serve as a super cool background for Scissortail Park’ main stage, a very Instagrammable spot, and that's worth a lot nowadays, not many hotels or office buildings can match.

I wish OKC developers will build something that creative someday.

[Plutonic Panda]

That would be pretty cool!

[SEMIweather]

Not gonna lie, this has me wanting to visit Rotterdam once the world opens back up lol

[Oski]

Not gonna lie, this has me wanting to visit Rotterdam once the world opens back up lol

So do I, or you can take a virtual tour, and this is just normal day over there.

[ChrisHayes]

That is pretty cool, but at the same time it seems like it would be a huge obstruction between Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park. I want something mixed use that would allow easy traversing between the parks, instead of an obstruction.

[riflesforwatie]

That is pretty cool, but at the same time it seems like it would be a huge obstruction between Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park. I want something mixed use that would allow easy traversing between the parks, instead of an obstruction.

I think you're on the right track to be worried about obstruction between the parks, but I would go even further. The best use of this property is as public parkland connecting Scissortail Park and the Myriad Gardens. It might not even need to go all the way from Robinson to Hudson, but instead from halfway between Hudson and Harvey to halfway between Robinson and Harvey, with mixed use on the remaining outer sides. I know there was lots of public discussion regarding the siting of the Convention Center and the entire Core to Shore "project" (which means there was even more discussion behind the scenes) but I am not sure we came out of that with the best possible location for everything. These blocks are probably way too valuable now for "more park!" to ever happen, thanks to the $715 million I-40 relocation, the $139 million Scissortail Park, and the $288 million MAPS 3 Convention Center. Maybe there could be a land swap between the Cox Convention Center and the dealership lot? If office towers are the goal the Cox land is way better for that anyway.

I think it's easy to forget just how staggering an amount of empty (or essentially empty) land we're dealing with downtown. Office towers would also work on the old Stage Center site. Or from Walker to Hudson and Reno to the Boulevard. (Speaking of the Boulevard, that turkey is going to separate Scissortail from the rest of Downtown no matter what happens to the Ford dealership site.) And then what do we do with the Producers Co-op, Strawberry Fields, etc? Sure, we've already built a lot of park, but it really seems like a missed opportunity not to connect these two amazing natural resources we've just built and put all the buildings somewhere else.

[SEMIweather]

I think you're on the right track to be worried about obstruction between the parks, but I would go even further. The best use of this property is as public parkland connecting Scissortail Park and the Myriad Gardens. It might not even need to go all the way from Robinson to Hudson, but instead from halfway between Hudson and Harvey to halfway between Robinson and Harvey, with mixed use on the remaining outer sides. I know there was lots of public discussion regarding the siting of the Convention Center and the entire Core to Shore "project" (which means there was even more discussion behind the scenes) but I am not sure we came out of that with the best possible location for everything. These blocks are probably way too valuable now for "more park!" to ever happen, thanks to the $715 million I-40 relocation, the $139 million Scissortail Park, and the $288 million MAPS 3 Convention Center. Maybe there could be a land swap between the Cox Convention Center and the dealership lot? If office towers are the goal the Cox land is way better for that anyway.

I think it's easy to forget just how staggering an amount of empty (or essentially empty) land we're dealing with downtown. Office towers would also work on the old Stage Center site. Or from Walker to Hudson and Reno to the Boulevard. (Speaking of the Boulevard, that turkey is going to separate Scissortail from the rest of Downtown no matter what happens to the Ford dealership site.) And then what do we do with the Producers Co-op, Strawberry Fields, etc? Sure, we've already built a lot of park, but it really seems like a missed opportunity not to connect these two amazing natural resources we've just built and put all the buildings somewhere else.

I forget, have office towers been proposed for the old Stage Center site in the past?

[FighttheGoodFight]

Wow that is wild. I have been there! Went to NL in 2018 and happened upon this while spending a half day there before continuing on to France. The Netherlands is on another level of engineering. It was a lovely country.

[GoGators]

Visited this a few years ago. The Markthal is absolutely wild and i loved it. I've dreamed about something similar in OKC ever since.

[Martin]

i would love to see a large indoor market like that succeed somewhere near the core.

but maybe its architecture shouldn't remind me so much of this... : )

[Celebrator]

I would love to see something like this, wow. I mean iconic and practical--would be perfect for that spot. And I know there was some concern about obstruction, but this is sort of a funnel/pass-through between parks--I don't think that would be a problem.

[d-usa]

At this point, I would be happy if we settle with making all the roads through there pedestrian only. Throw a mixed use small tower on each block with a plaza in the middle. Shops and restaurants on ground floors that can have seating extend out into the pedestrian streets. Heck, one block can even be the parking garage for the other three towers with fancy bridges connecting them all.

[Oski]

At this point, I would be happy if we settle with making all the roads through there pedestrian only. Throw a mixed use small tower on each block with a plaza in the middle. Shops and restaurants on ground floors that can have seating extend out into the pedestrian streets. Heck, one block can even be the parking garage for the other three towers with fancy bridges connecting them all.

A market hall will suit OKC weather better, IMO.

[d-usa]

There are lots of better options, but I’ve also seen us come up with a lot of worse crap. I’m rooting for better than this, but if that’s what we settle with I would be pleasantly surprised.

[Oski]

There are lots of better options, but I’ve also seen us come up with a lot of worse crap. I’m rooting for better than this, but if that’s what we settle with I would be pleasantly surprised.

Can you please point me to the better options you just mentioned, I’m really interested in studying unique urban projects around the world. Thanks!

[jdizzle]

This would be a waste of prime residential and mixed-use space. It needs to be a tower, or multiple towers. Something like this doesn't fit Oklahoma City, at least not the design.

[GoGators]

This would be a waste of prime residential and mixed-use space. It needs to be a tower, or multiple towers. Something like this doesn't fit Oklahoma City, at least not the design.

It is a massive 12 story building that has 230 residential units, a full service grocery store, office space, 1,200 car underground parking garage, (plus a bicycle parking garage) and 50,000 sq ft of retail with room for 100 vendors. Plus along the sides of the building there are separate retail and restaurants spaces along on the entire ground floor. It is literally the definition of mixed use.

If OKC got something close to even half of that scale it would be a complete game changer for the core.

[Oski]

I agree. A vibrant gathering place is always better than empty skyscrapers and surface parking lots As they are right now. European cities don’t have that many “multiple towers”, but that doesn’t stop them from being beautiful. A beautiful city is a city full of people walking, biking, or interacting with others, our streets are pretty much empty most of the time.

[Sooner.Arch]

Three years ago I made the same comment This would be amazing! Something sculptural with a residential component.

[GoGators]

Rotterdam is interesting to compare to OKC. Although from very different circumstances, (Urban Renewal vs the Nazi Luftwaffe) Both cities had their urban cores decimated in the mid 20th century and had to basically start over from scratch.

Rotterdam is great example that sound urban design can be implemented and thrives in a post car world.

[Oski]

Rotterdam is great example that sound urban design can be implemented and thrives in a post car world.

I also love Copenhagen. I wish our city management and developers take a good look at Copenhagen and apply some of their great ideas to OKC. Quite a great city to live in.

[jdizzle]

I also love Copenhagen. I wish our city management and developers take a good look at Copenhagen and apply some of their great ideas to OKC. Quite a great city to live in.

Our developers here are dirt poor, financially. See Strawberry Fields. We have no developers with both money AND imagination in OKC, and none from out of state want to develop anything here.

[Rover]

Our developers here are dirt poor, financially. See Strawberry Fields. We have no developers with both money AND imagination in OKC, and none from out of state want to develop anything here.

I disagree. The Humphreys Company has raised a ton of money for RE development. And, they have vision. But, they are smart and patient. They won't do deals just to have cool projects. There has to be a net positive financial. No pie in the sky.

[shawnw]

If you like Copenhagen, join ULI book club next week for Copenhagenize.

https://oklahoma.uli.org/events/deta...-FF6B2D29BF15/

[Pete]

Bob Howard and Hall Capital are the owners of this property and the former is a billionaire and the latter has similar resources.

Howard is behind MIdtown Renaissance which has completed a dozen very high-quality and expensive developments. And the Halls developed 21c, Jones Assembly and West Village.

Plenty of money and very high standards from both partners, it's just a matter of timing for this property.