Opportunity Zones

[Pryor Tiger]

Did anyone catch the opportunity zone doc that Mayor Holt put out today? It showed the OGE block in the renderings as still reserved for development so maybe they know something we don’t. I’m sure it wouldn’t block it out due to the courts going in.

[Laramie]

Thanks Pryor Tiger, Pete was most accommodating...

As I looked at this plan; it's simply a plan for what areas could occupy parcels in the opportunity zone. What's more important is how thorough they tied the loose ends together with the plan. The OZ is a suggested-based plan supported by parking that present potential. Don't look at this with funding potential also there are TIFs and Quality Jobs Programs available for investors.

The potential of the streetcar's route to spur development.

Not concerned about parking garages or how they look--it's a parking garage; not a tower or skyscraper. Think about when you leave a parking garage, are you thinking about how it looks.

A parking garage as we have seen won't produce a lot of strip mall type retail because we killed that IMO with the metro underground concourse--which also killed our street life.

So, let's take it from here with comments about the opportunity zone or OZ without the Wizard.

[Laramie]

Did anyone catch the opportunity zone doc that Mayor Holt put out today? It showed the OGE block in the renderings as still reserved for development so maybe they know something we don’t. I’m sure it wouldn’t block it out due to the courts going in.

Speaking of OG&E, many of us would be satisfied if they could get anything constructed like their 1st placeholder--boomeranged shaped building or just one of the 4 Clayco buildings designed.

[Anonymous.]

If half of those conceptual redevelopments take place in my lifetime, I will be thrilled. But until state and city leadership takes a legitimate step forward toward growing and improving our education and as a by-product, attracting out of city and state companies - it all seems like a pipedream. I would add more, but I do not want this to come across as a political post.

Without question, it should most definitely be concerning to everyone in OKC and OK that BOK Plaza is a brand new tower sitting unfinished inside and will still be mostly empty after the planned move in late 2019 by Enable (who will only be vacating another downtown building). The fact we went from a demolished Stage Center site going from 4 planned towers and associated facilities to zero buildings and a basketball court is absolutely a black eye.

[Sooner.Arch]

Why does OKC have the mentality “for every building we build we must include a massive parking garage.... that “dream” is a nightmare

[Laramie]

We are gambling with disappointment if you think all this OZ plan will pan out. If 1/8 or one quarter of this happens within the next twenty years--GREAT! The plan to demolish stage center for OG&E's ambition came with a cost--hope they prove us wrong.

Like going NOODLING for the first time and sticking your hand in a hole not knowing if you'll pull out a large catfish or a water moccasin.

[hoya]

It's a pretty crappy graphic. I know it's just supposed to be a placeholder, but even I could do a better job than that.

Edit: Looking at the PDF, it's pretty clear that this is just a placeholder because they don't really have much of a plan for it. The whole thing is very generic. It's a "hey insert business name here, come invest in OKC!"

[Laramie]

OKC has put an added emphasis on parking. Anytime you build a tower or development, you need to have the parking to support that development. We've learned that parking garages aren't the most rosy structures--newest garages are being planned with a facade of somewhat that hides the rough look of most parking garages.

Whenever I have to park in downtown OKC the last of my concerns is how the garage looks. It is what it is, a parking garage--it serves no other purpose unless you've added some retail storefront or lease space to the garage.

Oklahoma City's underground metro concourse despite its shelter advantages has virtually killed the downtown street life interaction you see in most downtowns. Midtown & Bricktown does possess vibrant street lifes; those areas are why the initial 6.9 miles of streetcar rail loop exits. Oklahoma City was very ambitious with the streetcar, OKC has 6.9 mile streetcar loop. Dallas has a 2.45-mile; Kansas City 2 mile loop--both cites plan to expand their streetcar routes.

Again as hoya points out "The whole thing is very generic. It's a "hey insert business name here, come invest in OKC!"

[Plutonic Panda]

It really isn’t the amount of parking that bothers me as it is how it is laid out and integrated with the surrounding area. Better than most major cities where it’s a pain in the ass to find parking.

[Teo9969]

To those saying that the grid needs to be restored on the Cox site: Sure you do not mean for cars do you? Given that Broadway and California do not exist in any feeding capacity to the area on the Cox site, the idea of returning the grid, if we're going to make streets out of it is way off base.

IF we're returning the grid for pedestrian use only, then I am 100% on board. Definitely there needs to be a straight at grade walk between the entrance to Santa Fe and MBG, anything less would be unforgivable. The Broadway spine is far less interesting as there's really not a whole lot to connect, but if you're going to have the California spine, you might as well do the Broadway spine in a way that makes the whole area feel like "Town Square".

I've said it a billion times, but the Sony Center in Berlin is in no uncertain circumstances the baseline model for what we need to develop on the Cox site.

I think you could totally do some underground parking on most of the site with access from Reno and/or Sheridan. That being said, to justify it, it would probably need to be at least 3 levels underground. I know we're partially underground now, so maybe it wouldn't be too bad to dig a little bit deeper.

[hoya]

The Cox site needs significant city involvement and a rock-solid master plan before anything happens there. I'd say it's probably the most important piece of land in the city. The Sony Center is pretty cool, I'm envisioning a version of Rockefeller Center personally.

It needs to function as a grand entryway into downtown, because presumably the Santa Fe station will have people arriving due to the RTA. The Cox site will be the first thing you see once you step outside of the train station. Reconnect the street grid, but not for automobile traffic. We've already got superblocks on 3 sides, so there are really no existing streets to connect.

At the center, we could have a giant reflecting pool/fountain/statue thing -- a central feature around which people will gather. All the buildings in the area need to share an architectural style. They should all look like they belong together. Height isn't necessarily that important, as long as they're 10+ stories it will have the same effect from the perspective of people on the ground. As much as I'd love a bunch of 40 story towers, I don't think that's required. Plus anybody with the money to build something that big is going to have enough sway to alter the entire project.

Parking garages would be hidden inside of each block, with buildings surrounding them like the Boulevard Place project.

[Teo9969]

The Cox site needs significant city involvement and a rock-solid master plan before anything happens there. I'd say it's probably the most important piece of land in the city. The Sony Center is pretty cool, I'm envisioning a version of Rockefeller Center personally.

It needs to function as a grand entryway into downtown, because presumably the Santa Fe station will have people arriving due to the RTA. The Cox site will be the first thing you see once you step outside of the train station. Reconnect the street grid, but not for automobile traffic. We've already got superblocks on 3 sides, so there are really no existing streets to connect.

At the center, we could have a giant reflecting pool/fountain/statue thing -- a central feature around which people will gather. All the buildings in the area need to share an architectural style. They should all look like they belong together. Height isn't necessarily that important, as long as they're 10+ stories it will have the same effect from the perspective of people on the ground. As much as I'd love a bunch of 40 story towers, I don't think that's required. Plus anybody with the money to build something that big is going to have enough sway to alter the entire project.

Parking garages would be hidden inside of each block, with buildings surrounding them like the Boulevard Place project.

If we did parking under ground, could you do Sheridan In/Reno Out.

On that note, I've always thought that we should seriously consider making Reno and Sheridan one-way streets. I know that the convention is that one-way streets are bad for walkability, but these are not regular streets either. They, along with Broadway, Classen, and 10th/13th are the thoroughfares of downtown. I feel like automobile traffic could move quite smoothly on these two streets if they were one-way. It helps that the streetcar establishes a clear direction for what way these streets should move.

If you did that, it makes the Cox Center a natural terminus of sorts. You could do 3 levels under ground for ~1,000 cars and then buy the block just south of Sheridan on the other side of the tracks and build your 2,000+ car garage right there to service that area (along with Bricktown).

[Laramie]

If we did parking under ground, could you do Sheridan In/Reno Out.

On that note, I've always thought that we should seriously consider making Reno and Sheridan one-way streets. I know that the convention is that one-way streets are bad for walkability, but these are not regular streets either. They, along with Broadway, Classen, and 10th/13th are the thoroughfares of downtown. I feel like automobile traffic could move quite smoothly on these two streets if they were one-way. It helps that the streetcar establishes a clear direction for what way these streets should move.

If you did that, it makes the Cox Center a natural terminus of sorts. You could do 3 levels under ground for ~1,000 cars and then buy the block just south of Sheridan on the other side of the tracks and build your 2,000+ car garage right there to service that area (along with Bricktown).

Reminder, it was difficult to do 1 level of underground parking--OKC was built on a river bed; we were fortunate to go one level underground--OKC still experiences minor flooding at one level which includes the Cox Center underground parking as well as the Metro underground concourse. Remember what happened to Stage Center as a result of flooding or the Space Tower electrical being positioned partially underground as far away as the Fairgrounds.

[hoya]

Automobile traffic moving smoothly is part of what makes it bad for walkability.

[Teo9969]

Automobile traffic moving smoothly is part of what makes it bad for walkability.

I don't think that this has to be true. And I guess it depends on what we're talking about when we say "moving smoothly". The goal isn't to let cars move unimpeded across these ROW, but rather, lessen the confusion of who is turning and crossing where and when by eliminating one direction of traffic entirely. I think, if done correctly with the correct indicators in place, it can be a powerful tool to keep the flow of traffic moving and create a more predictable environment for both pedestrians and drivers. The same can't really be said of one-way small streets because congestion is more sporadic and pedestrians are less likely to pay attention to traffic when they are walking in these areas.

[David]

I like the idea of the super pedestrian focus for the Cox site, and that Sony Center in Berlin as a model suggestion is great.

[Pete]

Really good article on this subject from Paul Monies of Oklahoma Watch:

http://oklahomawatch.org/2019/02/21/...stly-the-rich/