David Boren and the B12

[Jersey Boss]

A few weeks ago D-Bo made a public splash about the B12 needing to expand, posibly to UCONN or the Univ. of Houston. Born also wants a playoff game after the expansion and publicly stated he felt the league needed an exclusive TV contract similar to the SEC or B10. Of course there can't be a TV contract unless Texas agrees to deep six their exclusive ESPN Longhorn network deal.
Much was said locally on how Boren would be able to muscle this through by getting all the schools on board.

Last Friday at the league meeting in Dallas, Boren was told to quit talking publicly on such matters. Interesting that the Daily Disappointment or local radio had not a mention of this.
John E. Hoover: Big 12 CEOs silence rogue voices, including Boren - Tulsa World: Sports Columnist John E. Hoover
IRVING, Texas — Big 12 Conference leadership saw University of Oklahoma President David Boren’s comments, felt them, and now has reacted to them.
On Friday at league headquarters, commissioner Bob Bowlsby and chairman of the board of directors Kirk Schulz of Kansas State expressed a new league directive — er, agreement — that no school CEO will express his views on Big 12 topics like expansion.
When the presidents and chancellors meeting adjourned, rather than stick around and politic for expansion to 12 members, a Big 12 network and a conference championship game, Boren got in his car and headed back to Norman.

[Bill Robertson]

The Animal's coverage of the meetings complained all day Friday that they wouldn't be getting any real comments due to the gag order. And Boren made his point. Hanging around just to repeat it agian wasn't necessary. They meet two more times this year.

[traxx]

Boren is wrong in several different ways on this.

Ten schools does not work for the B12. But there's no one good to get anymore. Mid-majors like Houston just ain't gonna do it. The B12 isn't gonna get a school like Arky or FSU jump either. The B12 is screwed. The B12 and or OU doesn't want to saddle itself with a network now either. The time to do that was five or ten years ago. ESPN right now is struggling because of so many people dumping cable and satellite to stream. ESPN didn't make it's big money from sports fans alone. It made it from being a part of cable packages so that people who didn't even care about sports still paid for it because it was a part of their package. I see the other conference networks and the LHN following in this manner.

OU needs to get out of this conference plain and simple. Stop tying ourselves to osu and stop saying "Whatever Texas wants us to do..." Also, being in another conference will help OU to win a football national title. Bob has built OU to win the B12 but B12 teams aren't built to win an NC. The B12's days are numbered and we need to get out. I know people worry about our rivalry with Texas if we leave, but we played Texas every year while we were in a different conference up until the creation of the B12. It can be done again.

[dankrutka]

Ten schools does not work for the B12. But there's no one good to get anymore. Mid-majors like Houston just ain't gonna do it.

I disagree. I think Cincinnati brings enough to the table to merit an addition. I think they're comparable to many power 5 schools already and they would be even better in a major conference. They also would provide a neighbor to West Virginia and provide some stability. Of course, you're right that the Big 12 should have been active in offering schools like Louisville during the last expansion cycle, but I think Cincinnati is not settling. I would add them now and worry about team 12 later.

Now, who to add after that is a problem? Every other school offers problems. Houston has potential (see TCU), but there's no need to further saturate the Texas market for recruiting and such. UConn could bring a ton (great men's and women's basketball teams), but they lack in football. BYU meets all the criteria of a power 5 team, but they don't fit geographically and bring some headaches with them (TV deal, no Sunday games). In the end, if you have to get to 12 then I think BYU is the school. There's no shame in BYU and Cincy as additions. They're both good programs with solid fan support and good history.

OU needs to get out of this conference plain and simple.

I think people forget that this really affects the fan. I want to be in a conference with geographic neighbors. I enjoy going to games when OU plays at TCU or driving to games in Kansas or Stillwater. I hate that we lost the old Big 8 schools, but I'm not that interested in a conference where a majority of our games are 10-20 hour drives away. If we can make the Big 12 work then I think that should be the priority.

[dcsooner]

Boren is wrong in several different ways on this.

Ten schools does not work for the B12. But there's no one good to get anymore. Mid-majors like Houston just ain't gonna do it. The B12 isn't gonna get a school like Arky or FSU jump either. The B12 is screwed. The B12 and or OU doesn't want to saddle itself with a network now either. The time to do that was five or ten years ago. ESPN right now is struggling because of so many people dumping cable and satellite to stream. ESPN didn't make it's big money from sports fans alone. It made it from being a part of cable packages so that people who didn't even care about sports still paid for it because it was a part of their package. I see the other conference networks and the LHN following in this manner.

OU needs to get out of this conference plain and simple. Stop tying ourselves to osu and stop saying "Whatever Texas wants us to do..." Also, being in another conference will help OU to win a football national title. Bob has built OU to win the B12 but B12 teams aren't built to win an NC. The B12's days are numbered and we need to get out. I know people worry about our rivalry with Texas if we leave, but we played Texas every year while we were in a different conference up until the creation of the B12. It can be done again.

Could not agree more

[jerrywall]

I think that OU would leave both OSU and Texas behind for the right package/deal. It's just that all deals being equal or close, they'll stick with (for whatever reason) Texas and OSU. I agree that it's unlikely that the Big 12 could add any schools of the right caliber, so it's really just a matter of time until the prime cuts of the Big 12 are lured away to other conferences.

For OU, sooner (yuck yuck) is better than later on making this move. As an OSU fan, I'd rather see the big 12 work. However, I just don't think it will.

[dankrutka]

I think that OU would leave both OSU and Texas behind for the right package/deal.

I absolutely hate this idea. Our rivalries with OSU and Texas are such a vital part of college sports. If we leave for the Big 10 with Kansas, for example, I bet we'll all be excited with our games with Minnesota and Rutgers over OSU and Kansas (game in which fans can drive to and against schools with which we have a deep history). Same with playing Kentucky or having our basketball tourney in Atlanta. Puke. There's a lot of downside to joining a far flung conference without neighbors. Ask Nebraska how the Big 10 is going. Sure, they're in a conference with stability, but they have no rival (and they lost their Texas recruiting base). There's a lot to lose in leaving... As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.

[jerrywall]

I absolutely hate this idea. Our rivalries with OSU and Texas are such a vital part of college sports. If we leave for the Big 10 with Kansas, for example, I bet we'll all be excited with our games with Minnesota and Rutgers over OSU and Kansas (game in which fans can drive to and against schools with which we have a deep history). Same with playing Kentucky or having our basketball tourney in Atlanta. Puke. There's a lot of downside to joining a far flung conference without neighbors. Ask Nebraska how the Big 10 is going. Sure, they're in a conference with stability, but they have no rival (and they lost their Texas recruiting base). There's a lot to lose in leaving... As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.

I'm not saying I like it. It's more an observation of the reality. OU will attempt, of course, to stay with Texas and OSU, but they'd certainly be willing, IMO, to make a move without one or both of them under the right circumstances.

I agree that it would hurt the rivalry, especially in football. Things aren't the same as they were in the past. With the larger conferences, what team wants to commit 2 of their few non conference games on an annual basis. Matchups between either of these teams would become rarer (like with Nebraska). I also agree with your assessment of geographically spread out conferences. Harder on the fans and the teams.

[Brownwood]

I absolutely hate this idea. Our rivalries with OSU and Texas are such a vital part of college sports. If we leave for the Big 10 with Kansas, for example, I bet we'll all be excited with our games with Minnesota and Rutgers over OSU and Kansas (game in which fans can drive to and against schools with which we have a deep history). Same with playing Kentucky or having our basketball tourney in Atlanta. Puke. There's a lot of downside to joining a far flung conference without neighbors. Ask Nebraska how the Big 10 is going. Sure, they're in a conference with stability, but they have no rival (and they lost their Texas recruiting base). There's a lot to lose in leaving... As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.

I have to disagree with a few of your assumptions. If OU were to leave the B12, it would be advantageous for both OU and Texas to continue their rivalry as the season ticket bases of both schools are maintained to some extent by the opportunity to attend the annual game in Dallas. While popular in Oklahoma, very few people nationally care about the OU-OSU "rivalry" except when both schools are highly ranked and the results affect the national picture, i.e. not very often. Within the B12, there are only 3 national brands, OU & Texas in football and Kansas in basketball. Everyone else serves as scheduling placeholders and are replaceable / interchangeable with numerous schools throughout the country.

Short term, having 10 schools as opposed to 12 or 14 makes everyone's payout larger. It doesn't make a lot of financial sense to add schools unless they can bring something (viewers and national name) to the table. Doing so, simply dilutes the payout. If you're TCU, Iowa State, etc. the B12 is as good as you can expect and they would lose money should they elect to leave. Texas is making what it would make in another conference such as the Big 10 or SEC because of the additional revenue generated by the LHN. OU is the real loser because they are a national brand earning Iowa State dollars. They are locked in and will earn less than Texas because OU does not have the sweet LHN deal. In my opinion, OU's mistake was made when they fought to keep the B12 without a conference network or the foresight to expand when the opportunity was available.

Finally, OU's options may not be as open as you might assume. All Big 10 schools are AAU members (except Nebraska who was when invited) as OU may not be considered academically strong enough. Might be questionable with Pac-12 unless Texas was included as a package. I'm sure the SEC would jump at the opportunity to take OU as the SEC is not known as an academic hot spot, except Vanderbilt.

[jerrywall]

One thing I think is a little scary in this shutting down of Boren, is that Boren has made it clear that he will think of OU's longer term future (as he should). He's as much as said that if the Big 12 doesn't make changes, OU will. The fact that the other schools voted to shut down public comments is absurd if you consider that every school that's not Texas is screwed if OU leaves the Big 12.

[OKCretro]

Tidbits on conference realignment talk

I haven't met one OSU fan who wants to the conference to break up. (if there are any on this board speak up!). why? because they know if they don't get OU to carry them to another conference they will slide to a lower conference. OSU can't move alone on its own merits.

OU needs to get out of this conference b/c it becomes the AAC part 2.

Most of the little brother schools do not want to add schools to the conference for several reasons. #1 it will decrease their piece of the money pie that OU and Texas gives to them. #2 if the conference is spilt into 2 divisions no team wants to be in the other division w/out OU and Texas. Now the little brother schools get OU and texas every other year at home (some schools like OSU base their season tickets and marketing on this fact). If a little brother has to go to the other division they don't get to host OU and UT every other year.

[jerrywall]

I haven't met one OSU fan who wants to the conference to break up.

I am an OSU fan who doesn't want the conference to break up. Not for the reasons you state, but still. I like OU and OSU being in the same conference and fighting for the same title. I grew up with that, and enjoy it. Does OSU benefit from OU's presence? Sure. Texas' as well. Of course, OU benefits from being in a conference with Texas. Nothing wrong with any of that.

As for the ability to get into a strong conference? I disagree there. In some ways it might be easier for OSU to get into another strong conference. Anyone knows that pulling in OU or Texas into a conference, while beneficial, will result in a power and finance shakeup. We've seen with the conference realignments of the past decade that the schools most likely to be poached are the more middle of the pack schools.

[gopokes88]

Tidbits on conference realignment talk

I haven't met one OSU fan who wants to the conference to break up. (if there are any on this board speak up!). why? because they know if they don't get OU to carry them to another conference they will slide to a lower conference. OSU can't move alone on its own merits.

OU needs to get out of this conference b/c it becomes the AAC part 2.

Most of the little brother schools do not want to add schools to the conference for several reasons. #1 it will decrease their piece of the money pie that OU and Texas gives to them. #2 if the conference is spilt into 2 divisions no team wants to be in the other division w/out OU and Texas. Now the little brother schools get OU and texas every other year at home (some schools like OSU base their season tickets and marketing on this fact). If a little brother has to go to the other division they don't get to host OU and UT every other year.

OU may be the big brother you but sound like the ultimate ou homer with little no facts. Here's a fact. OSU has higher revenue then the avg P5 schools.



OSU has some of the highest revenue per fan as well, we would be valuable addition to any P5. I suspect Boren has an invite for OU and OSU to the Pac-12, which is where all of his leverage is coming form. We may not be the driving force behind realignment but we aren't a bunch of bums OU has to drag along that no one wants. We can hold our own.

[OKCretro]

OU may be the big brother you but sound like the ultimate ou homer with little no facts. Here's a fact. OSU has higher revenue then the avg P5 schools.



OSU has some of the highest revenue per fan as well, we would be valuable addition to any P5. I suspect Boren has an invite for OU and OSU to the Pac-12, which is where all of his leverage is coming form. We may not be the driving force behind realignment but we aren't a bunch of bums OU has to drag along that no one wants. We can hold our own.

If osu athletics is so profitable why don't the donate the tax payer money to the school for education and not for sports? The 6.5 million of tax payers money could go a long way in education

[BoulderSooner]

If osu athletics is so profitable why don't the donate the tax payer money to the school for education and not for sports? The 6.5 million of tax payers money could go a long way in education

osu AD is in the red and gets money from the school ..... OU donates money to the school general fund and doesn't get and money .... little brother indeed

[ou48A]

osu AD is in the red and gets money from the school ..... OU donates money to the school general fund and doesn't get and money .... little brother indeed

^This is 100% correct…..

Over the decades OU athletics has given back to OU academics has added up to a great deal of money….and helped make OU the better university over all.

In the 1950’s (when OU was in one of sports better dynasties in a sport than matters) any athletic department surplus was turned over to OU academics….In 2016 dollars the total figure would be well north of $100 million dollars.

OU athletics has a very long history of providing money to its academics and assisting the university’s mission to the state….This doesn’t even account for several very large donations that came to OU academics because the donor was somehow energized by OU football.

By comparison osu athletics appears to take away opportunity for its university’s academics and its mission to make the state a better place to work, live and play. It’s time to divert the money to osu academics!

[SoonerDave]

A few thoughts based on some things posted here...no particular order...

* Big 10's requirement for AAU membership is no longer hard-and-fast. I think every communication has been made that they would take OU without it.
* Boren was caught flat-footed with the realignment/Pac10-12-16 bluff a few years ago. I can't fathom he'd be caught like that again. He may like/love/want the Big 12 to survive, but he'd darned well better have an unassailable exit strategy in hand if he can't get what he wants. I think he does, and started crafting it about five minutes after the Pac-12/16 debacle emerged a few years ago.
* The ACC is apparently never (?) going to get the network they discussed.
* ESPN's pot of money for conference affiliations and rights payments is no longer the unending bucket it once seemed.
* Boren and West Va pres Gordon Gee have been working traplines behind the scenes to gauge "unoffically" what kind of temperature there is out there among other possible schools. Both have to be *extremely* careful about any such communication, because it could *easily* be perceived as destructive and/or poaching in the eyes of other conferences, their members, and the relative value of *their* rights.
* Boren, I believe, would like a plan that converts the LHN into a B12 network.
* I believe Boren knows Texas will block.....everything.
* I believe Boren has in his hip pocket a nuclear strategy to exit the conference if he can't get satisfactory responses to the issues he's posed - including a legal option that would involve a lawsuit against the Big 12 to regain the intellectual property rights it granted to the conference, with the hope a negotiated settlement would allow for OU's exit.
* The relationship between OU and Texas as universities is at an all-time low. Good or bad, I believe Boren is willing to put the OU-Texas game (RRS) on the block if he perceives it to be in the better long-term interest of OU as a school in terms of its future conference alignment. And there is similarly no such marriage to OSU unless someone in the legislature forces the issue.

I know the conventional wisdom holds that nothing will happen for at least six, seven, eight, or more years. I don't think Boren plans to wait anywhere near that long.

No pretense of insider info at all here, just some speculation based on how things have unfolded.

[traxx]

As I said previously, if OU leaves Texas behind that doesn't mean that we can't still play Texas every year. From 1900 - 1995 we played Texas and we were in a different conference. I also understand wanting regional rivals, but those days are over. We've already lost our old Big 8 rivals Nebbish, Mizzou and Colorado. Not to mention Big 12 member aTm. Sure it's nice to be able to travel to away games but would you rather be in the B12 and be able to travel to Kansas and sit in an empty stadium or would you rather be in a different conference and watch OU play teams like Ohio State or Alabama or USC on a regular basis. Look at this past seasons home schedule. It was pitiful. Conference home games were WVA, TTech, ISU and TCU. TCU was the only decent home game this season.

[SoonerDave]

As I said previously, if OU leaves Texas behind that doesn't mean that we can't still play Texas every year. From 1900 - 1995 we played Texas and we were in a different conference. I also understand wanting regional rivals, but those days are over. We've already lost our old Big 8 rivals Nebbish, Mizzou and Colorado. Not to mention Big 12 member aTm. Sure it's nice to be able to travel to away games but would you rather be in the B12 and be able to travel to Kansas and sit in an empty stadium or would you rather be in a different conference and watch OU play teams like Ohio State or Alabama or USC on a regular basis. Look at this past seasons home schedule. It was pitiful. Conference home games were WVA, TTech, ISU and TCU. TCU was the only decent home game this season.

With the likelihood that any future conference will be larger than 10 teams, possibly even larger than 12, I strongly suspect scheduling requirements may make the RRS impossible if OU and UT are, for whatever reason, in different conferences.

[traxx]

With the likelihood that any future conference will be larger than 10 teams, possibly even larger than 12, I strongly suspect scheduling requirements may make the RRS impossible if OU and UT are, for whatever reason, in different conferences.

That's a valid point. If that's the case then I think OU has to go to the SEC. Without a pipeline to recruit in Texas, we'll need to recruit the south to get the players we need or else we become Nebraska.

[adaniel]

As I said previously, if OU leaves Texas behind that doesn't mean that we can't still play Texas every year. From 1900 - 1995 we played Texas and we were in a different conference. I also understand wanting regional rivals, but those days are over.

That's what Texas A&M admins said when they left....still waiting for them to schedule something. Most fans of both schools will tell you they loathe the absence of the UT/A&M game.

There is no guarantee that UT will play us in another conference. And to even suggest this is playing with fire. I mean, its nuts how much revenue that one game generates for OU. Its by far the biggest recruiting tool for OU football. It is a huge money raiser from alumni. It is guaranteed national media exposure. I can tell you as a kid that grew up in DFW, that game was probably the first time I started paying attention to OU and led to my eventual attendance (and large out of state tuition payment).

And to be frank, OU would lose a vast amount of its national prominence if it starts walking away from rivalries, especially UT. See how this is turning out for Nebraska. OU is probably the most influential and powerful "small state" public schools in the country (small state as in less than 4 million people). When you strip those qualifiers away, however, you will see the school has a somewhat limited footprint. If you are going to use athletics as a buzzmaker for the university, than OU simply does not have the luxury of limiting its exposure.

[SoonerDave]

university, than OU simply does not have the luxury of limiting its exposure.

Aside from the fact that it's "then", not "than," you lost me the moment you implied that moving to the SEC would *limit* OU's exposure. There's just no way you can defend that.

And we won't even go into the fact that among the strongly conjectured alternate scenarios from a few years ago included the one wherein the SEC had *already* told OU it would be welcome, but balked when we tried to make OSU part of the deal. So this notion that OU "won't" go to the SEC just doesn't hold water. It might not be their *first choice* academically, but if that's their best alternative, they will certainly take it.

A&M's problem is that their ego was bigger than their history or their resume, and moving conferences changed neither of those things. Nebraska's mistake was moving in tandem with the loss of their walk-on program, which was the fuel that kept their program going arguably for decades. They are now very much a "used-to-be-good" program that struggles to be relevant every few years with no history in the region and no hook to make them attractive, to say nothing of their revolving-door of coaches.

There is no slam-dunk guarantee OU will be "successful" in the SEC or B10 or (insert favorite conference here), but with a pile of national championships, conference titles, and Heisman winners in their back pocket, I'd say the odds are very much in their favor, and they represent a program very much "in demand." Not so much can be said about A&M.

[MitchellCole]

Aside from the fact that it's "then", not "than," you lost me the moment you implied that moving to the SEC would *limit* OU's exposure. There's just no way you can defend that.

And we won't even go into the fact that among the strongly conjectured alternate scenarios from a few years ago included the one wherein the SEC had *already* told OU it would be welcome, but balked when we tried to make OSU part of the deal. So this notion that OU "won't" go to the SEC just doesn't hold water. It might not be their *first choice* academically, but if that's their best alternative, they will certainly take it.

A&M's problem is that their ego was bigger than their history or their resume, and moving conferences changed neither of those things. Nebraska's mistake was moving in tandem with the loss of their walk-on program, which was the fuel that kept their program going arguably for decades. They are now very much a "used-to-be-good" program that struggles to be relevant every few years with no history in the region and no hook to make them attractive, to say nothing of their revolving-door of coaches.

There is no slam-dunk guarantee OU will be "successful" in the SEC or B10 or (insert favorite conference here), but with a pile of national championships, conference titles, and Heisman winners in their back pocket, I'd say the odds are very much in their favor, and they represent a program very much "in demand." Not so much can be said about A&M.

Alabama is clearly going to be better than OU as long as Saban is around. Ole Miss is going to be a bear under Freeze. Miles always has good teams. Throw in 1 or 2 elite East teams. OU would get a recruiting bump in the SEC, but fans would have to get accept a bunch of 9-3 seasons with the occasional contending year.

[SoonerDave]

Alabama is clearly going to be better than OU as long as Saban is around. Ole Miss is going to be a bear under Freeze. Miles always has good teams. Throw in 1 or 2 elite East teams. OU would get a recruiting bump in the SEC, but fans would have to get accept a bunch of 9-3 seasons with the occasional contending year.

This isn't about what's happening *now*, it's about what's happening over the next five, ten, even twenty years. The NCAA hammer is getting ready to put Ole Miss back a step or two or ten, and neither Saban nor Miles will be at their respective schools in five years (nor Stoops, for that matter). I don't at all blindly accept the notion we'd routinely be 9-3 any more than I'd blindly accept the notion we'd routinely be 3-9. Let's face it - *no one* knows what CFB will look like in five or ten years. This is all speculation and gamesmanship. All OU can do is see the mistakes made by others, and themselves, and hope not to repeat them if at all possible.

[Jersey Boss]

^^^ As far as OSU. Pat Jones former head coach of the OSU football has repeatedly advocated for OSU and OU to align in different conferences. His reasoning is that OSU will always be a little bro' to OU and never have their own identity until they separate.