Biker shootout in Waco

[jerrywall]

I'm surprised no one started a thread about this yet. Personally, even though I'm a long time rider I've very intentionally avoided MC interaction or participation. I know several folks who are patched members and am close friends with someone who was an officer in a local MC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/us...-shooting.html

What's especially shocking to me is the shear scope of this incident. I'm hoping this doesn't cause ripples and have consequences throughout Texas, and even in Oklahoma.

I imagine local police forces may start changing how they interact with club members to try to avoid something like this happening here.

[Motley]

What I am surprised about is how many issues seem to arise in Waco. Is it coincidence or is there something that attracts negative events to Waco?

[Urbanized]

I think it was mostly a beef between Bandidos, who pretty much claim Texas, and the Cossacks, plus the Scimitars, who are Cossacks supporters. The Cossacks are another longtime Texas club and I think that is a long-running feud as they won't give way to the Bandidos. My question is whether or not there are Cossacks/Scimitars in Oklahoma..? I've never seen them, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I mostly see Bandidos and Outlaws around here, at least when it comes to 1% clubs.

I can tell you this though, the media is portraying the event that precipitated this as a "club meeting," but honestly I think it was just a bike night, which the OKC Twin Peaks locations also feature. In fact I saw an aerial of the scene, and the setup was nearly identical. I think the Texas confederation of clubs and independents talks a bit at that Waco meeting about ongoing legislation, bikers' rights stuff and other things that concern all bikers, all very typical of an event like that. It sounds like there was probably just some sort of altercation that sparked the whole thing with two clubs who hate each other. The Cossacks aren't members of that confederation, BTW.

But my point is that - even though I don't think one of the clubs in this beef is active in Oklahoma - the same kind of thing could happen at another bike night if the right mix of people are there and representing. I think if I ran that Twin Peaks bike night I would think strongly about not allowing colors.

What sucks is that lots of people lump "motorcyclists" into one group of people when something like this happens. In the reporting of this event, for instance, they talk about the "5 participating motorcycle gangs" and list the Leathernecks, who are comprised of active-duty and former Marines. I seriously doubt they were involved with the shooting. They aren't considered one percenters, and in fact active-duty military members would be in BIG trouble with their service branches if participating in a 1% club. I think they, like many other bikers, were probably just horrified bystanders in the whole mess (though surely less TERRIFIED than most).

The Range Rover chase in New York is another example of a few bad apples making the whole group look bad. Heck, even in Bricktown a few years ago they banned a really cool scene that was emerging on the ballpark plaza on weekend nights after a few sportbikes wheelied down Mickey Mantle and the police couldn't catch them. The result? ALL BIKES were banned from the ballpark plaza.

[Urban Pioneer]

Heck, even in Bricktown a few years ago they banned a really cool scene that was emerging on the ballpark plaza on weekend nights after a few sportbikes wheelied down Mickey Mantle and the police couldn't catch them. The result? ALL BIKES were banned from the ballpark plaza.

Yep. I was in that group. Very disappointed in the cops overreacting.

[Hollywood]

I think it was mostly a beef between Bandidos, who pretty much claim Texas, and the Cossacks, plus the Scimitars, who are Cossacks supporters. The Cossacks are another longtime Texas club and I think that is a long-running feud as they won't give way to the Bandidos. My question is whether or not there are Cossacks/Scimitars in Oklahoma..? I've never seen them, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I mostly see Bandidos and Outlaws around here, at least when it comes to 1% clubs.

You most likely won't see Cossacks around Oklahoma as they are a Hells Angels support club and the HA won't come into Oklahoma based upon an understanding with the Bandidos.

You will see Bandidos, Outlaws and Mongols along with their support clubs in Oklahoma.

[jerrywall]

Yeah, I was incredulous at the claim that this was a CoC type meeting, since I know in Oklahoma these meetings are private and would assume the same to be true in Texas.

[BBatesokc]

I just find it head-shakingly ridiculous that grown men go out in public in their matching little costumes and fight over some imaginary 'turf.'

I think they've seen one too many episodes of Son's of Anarchy.

Thugs and criminals is all they are. I hope the feds drop the hammer on them and take everything they've got - including their freedom.

I say this as the relative (nephew) of a lifelong biker felon who I once thought was pretty cool when I was al little kid. But as soon as I matured I realized what a joke he was. The problem was that he left a wake of personal destruction in his path.

[Urbanized]

I just find it head-shakingly ridiculous that grown men go out in public in their matching little costumes and fight over some imaginary 'turf.'

I think they've seen one too many episodes of Son's of Anarchy...

Don't kid yourself. This was probably about business. As in...$$$$$$

[Prunepicker]

Don't kid yourself. This was probably about business. As in..$$$

And it's been going on long before son's of anarchy appeared on tv.

[Roger S]

I think they've seen one too many episodes of Son's of Anarchy.

If the SoA had been there. The body count would have been way higher.

[jerrywall]

Well, I wear full leathers and a vest when I ride. I know plenty of folks who are members of riding clubs or groups. I don't see a need to mock what they wear.

Mocking what they do however, is a totally different thing ...

[BBatesokc]

Well, I wear full leathers and a vest when I ride. I know plenty of folks who are members of riding clubs or groups. I don't see a need to mock what they wear.

Mocking what they do however, is a totally different thing ...

I get your sensitivity to my comments, but, the matching costumes is central to this sort of thug/gang/club mentality.... Had this shootout been between Crips and Bloods and I replied with the same comment (it would apply equally in both cases) I'm guessing you wouldn't have felt an urge to post the response you did because it wouldn't have hit so close to home.

Whether it be middle aged men in their matching little denim/leather vests or youth in their matching red or blue.... when you put many of them together and their groups collide (or heaven forbid someone 'disrespect their colors' they become mindless billy badasses and societal turds.

All of them? Probably not. And even individually many are probably just fine. Its just some sort of social retardation that occurs when they get together in a group. I've even seen it with biker 'clubs' (aka, gangs) that are supposed to be for social good.

But, opinions are most often based on personal experiences and my experiences with grown men playing badass biker is not a positive one. I'm sure other's experiences differ.

[kelroy55]

Well, I wear full leathers and a vest when I ride. I know plenty of folks who are members of riding clubs or groups. I don't see a need to mock what they wear.

Mocking what they do however, is a totally different thing ...

I try to not mock them at all. I know a few Bandidos and occasionally have a few beers with them but that's about as much I have to do with any 1% club/gang. I don't condone what happened but the 'turf' thing is very real and the Cossacks knew all along wearing a bottom rocker was going to cause problems. As far as "grown men go out in public in their matching little costumes and fight over some imaginary 'turf.', that turf is very real to them and mocking them probably isn't the wisest thing to do.

[bradh]

I'm not a biker but have a couple employees who are really in to it, really involved with the downed bikers group. I hate that something like this tarnishes their group.

[jerrywall]

Are you talking about being able to park up on the bricks?

[Urbanized]

Are you talking about being able to park up on the bricks?

No, on the concrete plaza/apron in front of the entrance to Coach's (RIP). Actually more in front of the former Hideaway Pizza pass-through window.

[jerrywall]

No, on the concrete apron in front of the entrance to Coach's (RIP).

Ah, that's what I meant. I thought that was brick there too. Yeah, I remember that and I remember when it went away. It made Bricktown feel less biker friendly.

[Urban Pioneer]

Ah, that's what I meant. I thought that was brick there too. Yeah, I remember that and I remember when it went away. It made Bricktown feel less biker friendly.

That's because it was biker friendly. lol Then it went to "family friendly". Now it is in transition again as residential intensifies in the area.

I really loved bike nights at the Ballpark. If I recall correctly, some jack ass pulled a wheelie down Mickey Mantle Ave and crashed. Then it was over for everbody.

1%'ers are rare. There were plenty of people with aggressive personalities in our group. Still yet, I can't imagine a shoot out.

[jerrywall]

I guess we should say the same thing about Boy Scouts, Policemen, Shriners, and Brownies.

There's a reason why the oulaw gangs wear a 1% patch. There are great clubs out there like BACA (bikers against child abuse), the Downed Bikers Association, and various police and military riding clubs.

[BBatesokc]

I guess we should say the same thing about Boy Scouts, Policemen, Shriners, and Brownies.

There's a reason why the oulaw gangs wear a 1% patch. There are great clubs out there like BACA (bikers against child abuse), the Downed Bikers Association, and various police and military riding clubs.

Totally different. Since when have you heard of Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Brownies or Girl Scouts puffing up and playing 'bad ass'? Surprised you didn't throw in Wal Mart Greeters - they all wear matching blue vests!

Those groups you just mentioned don't exist almost solely to perpetuate an image of bikers and gang members.

Cops are a whole other type of 'gang' that's best left for another thread.

I've personally seen the negative sides of both BACA and Fire & Wind - not just the individuals, but how they can act as a group.

I don't recall this shootout being about who contributed the most donated stuffed animals for some charity...... so, the other groups are not really the focus of this thread - beyond the fact the intentionally mimic the look of thugs.

[jerrywall]

So you're probably one of those with the south park mentality about bikers?

Again, 1% is 1%.

[mkjeeves]

From the damage control department...after revoking the Waco location franchise agreement,

Twin Peaks has also indefinitely suspended biker events at its 29 company-owned locations and recommended that the 39 franchisees do the same.

Franchise agreement revoked for Waco Twin Peaks

[BBatesokc]

So you're probably one of those with the south park mentality about bikers?

Again, 1% is 1%.

At least I'm not naive enough to lump them in with Shriners or Brownies. Hmmm, who's being unrealistic?

Look, I get your perspective is different than mine. No biggie.

Funny how that 1% is the overwhelming public stereotype for the other 99%.

FYI - Funny thing is, the 1% you're portraying is actually the 1% definition created by the police and politicians.

The origin of the 1% has nothing to do with being a criminal. It has to do with the 1% that are 'real' bikers and live that life 24 hours a day. I know this because my POS uncle was one.

[Urbanized]

...The origin of the 1% has nothing to do with being a criminal. It has to do with the 1% that are 'real' bikers and live that life 24 hours a day. I know this because my POS uncle was one.

That's not accurate. "1%" came from a statement that the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) supposedly made after the 1947 "Hollister Riot" at an AMA-sanctioned event cast a bad light on motorcyclists in general. The AMA at the time issued a statement saying 99% of motorcyclists were law-abiding citizens and only about 1% were outlaws. The "outlaw" clubs (with no AMA affiliation) started proudly referring to themselves as one percenters.

By the way, the Hollister incident itself was wildly blown out of proportion by the media.

[BBatesokc]

That's not accurate. "1%" came from a statement that the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) supposedly made after the 1947 "Hollister Riot" at an AMA-sanctioned event cast a bad light on motorcyclists in general. The AMA at the time issued a statement saying 99% of motorcyclists were law-abiding citizens and only about 1% were outlaws. The "outlaw" clubs (with no AMA affiliation) started proudly referring to themselves as one percenters.

By the way, the Hollister incident itself was wildly blown out of proportion by the media.

Not necessarily.... "...It did not mean that they were law breakers or low life individuals. They were simply men that rode their motorcycles seven days a week in all kinds of weather, liked to drink and raise a little hell. Sometime during the 80’s law enforcement changed the meaning of the 1%er to what they wanted it to represent. It didn’t matter that their meaning was incorrect, they just spoon fed it to the general public and the courts as they had so many other things.

The Outlaws Motorcycle Club is rich in history and tradition. One of those traditions is the wearing of a 1%er patch on our vests and referring to ourselves as a 1%er club. The 1%er definition as we see it is one that explains our commitment to Biking and Brotherhood. We ride our motorcycles every day rain or shine. We ride thousands of miles each year with our Brothers to attend parties, social events, funerals and just plain spending time together. We work, have families and do all the things that our neighbors do. In addition to that we belong to a Brotherhood that we are able to combine with our day to day lives.

To say that 1%er’s are criminals or people of a lesser moral code than the rest of society is a tainted opinion...."

AOA - OUTLAWS MC WORLD ***************************************