Looting in New Orleans

[Keith]

This is one of the most despicable(sp) acts that I can think of, especially after a city has gone through so much devastation. Looters have become a problem in New Orleans, and unfortunately, the police have been busy trying to rescue people, and haven't had much of a chance to catch looters.

If the National Guard is there, they need to really start patrolling the streets, and have no mercy on the looters. The news reported that even the people that were taking shelter in the Louisiana dome are leaving, and have started looting stores nearby. I feel these looters need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[PUGalicious]

Some of the looters are people just trying to find food while waiting for help.

And the National Guard? Many of them are serving in Iraq.

[MadMonk]

And equally dispicable are national politicians who "continue on with their life" with their political speechs and stumping for a political agenda while hundreds of thousands of their constituents suffer from the ravashing effects of one of the worse national natural disasters in recent memory.

I agree. Ted Kennedy has reached a new low.

And the National Guard? Many of them are serving in Iraq.

I guess the nearly 70% that are there and not in Iraq isn't helping any huh?

[PUGalicious]

I agree. Ted Kennedy has reached a new low.

A clever argument doesn't make it an effective argument.

I don't believe Ted Kennedy's constituency includes Louisiana and the other Gulf states. However, our commander-in-chief's constituency does, but that didn't slow his political stump schedule much in the last few days.

I guess the nearly 70% that are there and not in Iraq isn't helping any huh?

"The Pentagon has sent about 40 percent of Mississippi's National Guard force to Iraq and 35 percent of Louisiana's -- a combined total of about 6,000 troops... Unlike soldiers in the part-time Army Reserve, made up of federal troops, those in the National Guard serve under the control of state governors usually for roles like disaster relief in their home states. They can be summoned to active-duty Army service in times of national need. Some state governors have worried that the Pentagon's deployment of so many Guard troops has eroded their states' abilities to respond to disasters like wildfires and hurricanes." (Source: Reuters)

Seems to me that 6000 is a significant number that could be helping in the relief effort.

[Didaskalos]

There is one thing in common with both. IT'S A CRIME.

That is nearly all they have in common. So is speeding and jay walking. I think I understand now, start shooting every criminal (anyone who has ever committed any crime) and we will have less crime (of course practically no one would be alive). It would reduce the problem of crime.

There is a notion that the punishment should fit the crime. Not sure that any form of shooting is appropriate for theft but I am just a softy that way.

And no, it's not law to shoot criminals, in the U.S. anyway.
Granite, this is a huge disaster and will be hard to recover.
But does that dismiss the law?

No, and the law is exactly the point. The same law they are breaking grants them due process and innocence until their guilt is proven in a court of law. If criminals are caught, they should be prosecuted. Charge anyone stealing and then anyone charged can stand in front of a judge or jury and defend their 'just' reasons for stealing. Anything short of that would hardly be upholding "the law".

OK, I'm hungry. Do I have the right to break into someones home or business so I can get some food?

No but it would seem more reasonsable to me than shooting people without due process.

By us saying it's OK to steal food if your hungry is setting the stage for an even bigger problem.

There is a difference between condoning an act and understanding the reasons behind it.

OK, don't shoot em. Just sit back and let it happen.

These are the only two options? I would think they could try and stop the looting and not resort to capital punishment.

OK, shooting might sound harsh to some, but as time passes we will wish we did something.
Maybe shoot them in the big toe.

Shooting sound harsh to me (no matter where they are shot). It is an expedient solution but might not hold up to the tenets of our law system.

[Dungeon Master]

Shoot the looters. Everyone was told to leave. If they didn't leave they must either obey or pay.
Set the example now.

[PUGalicious]

Shoot the looters. Everyone was told to leave. If they didn't leave they must either obey or pay.
Set the example now.

Not everyone had the means to leave. More than a quarter of New Orleans residents are poor or extremely poor. Some did not have transportation to relocate and some could not afford to go anywhere.

If we want to apply the shooting standard to looters (a standard, by the way, that violates each citizen's constitutional rights to due process), let us apply that equally across the board to those who profit off disaster in one way or another. We can start with the oil companies, then go down the line to all businesses who raise their prices because they can (because of demand).

I do not condone looting, but nor do I presume to judge the actions of those in a disastrous situation of which I'm completely removed.

[Curt]

Shoot the looters. Everyone was told to leave. If they didn't leave they must either obey or pay.
Set the example now.

Under certain circumstances I can agree, but if it truly a matter of survival I dont agree. It's a hard line to define here. If you need food and water you need food and water, but you dont need a t.v set right now.

[ibda12u]

I saw on the news last night, that some of the looters were cops. They had a camera crew in the store filming everyone looting, and not even one person seemed nervous, some of them even gave interviews. I was especially shocked at how calm the cops where as they looked at the camera then continued to fill up their shopping carts with stuff.

One of the people they interviewed said they were told it was okay to get what they needed from the stores, maybe most of them heard that, and they think they got some official okay to loot.

[Dungeon Master]

OK, so in times of need, rape is OK too?
Shoot the rapist too.

[Dungeon Master]

I'm sorry but "Due Process" is what has messed this place up to begin with.
If you obey the law, you have rights.
If you break the law, your rights are revolked and you will pay.
I sure wish that's the way it REALLY was.

[PUGalicious]

Fortunately for the rest of us, the Founding Fathers didn't agree.

[Didaskalos]

OK, so in times of need, rape is OK too?
Shoot the rapist too.

A time of need for rape? There is an honest comparison made between looting (some who might be doing for need) and rape? Granted, there are those looting for gain but who is the appropriate judge to determine when theft is due immediate death? This is the law now? Part of the law is due process, the very thing you seem to be questioning. So, I am confused, you are supporting our current law or requesting that it be immediately changed to protect property over life?

The premise was that all were required to leave so anyone still there must automatically be a lawbreaker and now has no due process under the law? What about those who are poor enough to not have transportation or any money to use alternate transportation. Their ulitmate crime then must be being poor.

Anyone trying to selfishly gain from this disaster is committing a crime but do we honestly think the greatest gainers in this tragedy will be those that looted some food, clothes or even electronics? Will there be mandatory shootings for those price gougers as well?

[MadMonk]

I can't fault those who are looting for food and fresh water. If you have a family to take care of you gotta do what you can, but those looting for TVs, jewerly, etc. are just dispicable. Equally dispicable are those who stoop to making political hay from a tragedy such as this, even as people are still trying to recover.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/30/20833/9811
http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=515

[PUGalicious]

Equally dispicable are those who stoop to making political hay from a tragedy such as this, even as people are still trying to recover.

And equally dispicable are national politicians who "continue on with their life" with their political speechs and stumping for a political agenda while hundreds of thousands of their constituents suffer from the ravashing effects of one of the worse national natural disasters in recent memory.

[Dungeon Master]

First, I really feel for the folks effected by the huricane and hate to see anyone suffer from a natural disaster like this.
Being in the military, we're now gearing up missions to support the victims.
Now
There is one thing in common with both. IT'S A CRIME.
And no, it's not law to shoot criminals, in the U.S. anyway.
Granite, this is a huge disaster and will be hard to recover.
But does that dismiss the law?
OK, I'm hungry. Do I have the right to break into someones home or business so I can get some food?
By us saying it's OK to steal food if your hungry is setting the stage for an even bigger problem.
OK, don't shoot em. Just sit back and let it happen.
From what I am seeing, things are quickly getting out of control.
If I lived in Houston, I would be preparing for looters being bussed there. It's not solving the problem, it's just moving it to another location. These people are already seriously upset, now your going to bus them out of their own state to a completely different state? What in the world are they going to do there? I have an idea.
OK, shooting might sound harsh to some, but as time passes we will wish we did something.
Maybe shoot them in the big toe.

[mranderson]

This is one of the most despicable(sp) acts that I can think of, especially after a city has gone through so much devastation. Looters have become a problem in New Orleans, and unfortunately, the police have been busy trying to rescue people, and haven't had much of a chance to catch looters.

If the National Guard is there, they need to really start patrolling the streets, and have no mercy on the looters. The news reported that even the people that were taking shelter in the Louisiana dome are leaving, and have started looting stores nearby. I feel these looters need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Shoot to kill and ask questions later. Here is the way it would go.

Person loots. A cop see's it. Rapid fire from an automatic rife breaks out. The looter hits the ground.

Cop: FREEZE!

Man lays in a pool of blood. Cop walks up to him and kicks him to see if he is alive.

Cop: You are under arrest. You have the right to remain silent... Oops. Too bad."

[Dungeon Master]

Shoot to kill and ask questions later. Here is the way it would go.

Person loots. A cop see's it. Rapid fire from an automatic rife breaks out. The looter hits the ground.

Cop: FREEZE!

Man lays in a pool of blood. Cop walks up to him and kicks him to see if he is alive.

Cop: You are under arrest. You have the right to remain silent... Oops. Too bad."

That's what the brits did.

[PUGalicious]

That's what the brits did.

And they turned out to be tragically wrong.

[mranderson]

That's what the brits did.

Maybe if we smoke a few looters, the others will get the message and think first. THAT is our point.

[Dungeon Master]

Maybe if we smoke a few looters, the others will get the message and think first. THAT is our point.

I'm with ya. I have a full box of rubber bands I've been holding for the perfect opportunity.

The mission code name. "Looters - Up in Smoke"

[Didaskalos]

Maybe if we smoke a few looters, the others will get the message and think first. THAT is our point.

And anyone that gets "smoked" unfairly (since the one doing the "smoking" can choose to be just or not) are just collarteral damage in this vast "war on looting".

As I said before, if crime is crime and crime needs to be reduced, no more speeding tickets - cops should just shoot em'. (No chance to give a reason or excuse, if you are accused, you are guilty). This would definitely reduce the number of speeders. Maybe then, speeders will get the point and the world will finally be safe from speeders.

[Karried]

I know when I see a group of what looks like young guys walking around with piles of stereos and tvs, it doesn't evoke a lot of sympathy. Of course, I know this is isolated and the people are very oppressed and possibly desperate ( if they were taking food, it wouldn't bother me as much as the piles of jeans and merchandise that they can't use right now), but I still don't think it is the right thing to do, it is a horrible representation of the city.

Citizens should be proud of the way they respond in emergencies, not ashamed. I know during the bombing, OKC was a stellar example of community and working together, giving and volunteering.

Of course, I also know there are thousands of misplaced people who are not contributing to the illegal activities and they are in desperate need.

The real tragedy in my mind is that people who would normally be very generous in their contributions, to assist those in need, may not feel like sending money now because if the media looting pics are any indication, some might feel they would just be aiding criminals and thugs.

I just hope people can differentiate between those who are in desperate need and continue to send money and necessities. I know I still will.

[Karried]

Mr A,

What if it were a father or mother trying to get medicine or food for a sick/dying child?

Shoot, and then ask? 'oops too bad'???

OMG

I thought as a society we had come so far ... ~ sigh ~

[PUGalicious]

I thought as a society we had come so far ... ~ sigh ~

I think we have evidence now that it has not.