Cars = freedom, But For How Long?

[Just the facts]

The car lovers among us hang their hats on "cars equals freedom" and equate mass transit to a communist take over. So let me ask, with the rise of the automated car how much longer will the automobile equal freedom for these people?

NHTSA May Mandate That New Cars Broadcast Location, Direction and Speed | CNS News

Before the end of this year, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will decide whether or not to begin the rulemaking process to mandate that newly manufactured cars include what is being called “vehicle-to-vehicle” (V2V) communications technology that constantly broadcasts via radio wave the car’s location, direction, speed and, possibly, even the number of passengers it is carrying. - See more at: NHTSA May Mandate That New Cars Broadcast Location, Direction and Speed | CNS News

...

NHTSA sees this technology as the first step on a “continuum” of automotive evolution that will ultimately lead to fully automated vehicles navigated by internal electronics linked to external infrastructure, communications and database systems.

The upside of a government-mandated movement toward cars that are not controlled by the people riding in them is that it could make transportation safer, allow people to use time spent in a vehicle for work, rest or entertainment, and give people who are currently incapable of driving because of age or disability the opportunity to move as freely as those who can now drive

The downside is that such a transportation system would give the government at least the capability to exert increasing control over when, where, if--or for how much additional taxation--people are allowed to go places in individually owned vehicles. It could also give government the ability to track where people go and when.

[rezman]

Just another example of governmental intrusion and control over citizens.

[rezman]

How?

It's right there in the original post ... Government mandated, government controlled.

[Just the facts]

rezman, since I don't keep a dossier on each poster would you consider yourself a 'car equals freedom' type person?

[bchris02]

rezman, since I don't keep a dossier on each poster would you consider yourself a 'car equals freedom' type person?

Cars may not equal freedom but New Urbanism doesn't necissarily either. What the government does or tries to do is independent of the environment its citizens choose/are made to live in.

[rezman]

rezman, since I don't keep a dossier on each poster would you consider yourself a 'car equals freedom' type person?

I consider myself an American = freedom type person who is free to get in my car and drive anywhere inside the borders of this country without a nanny watching over me.

[catch22]

I consider myself an American = freedom type person who is free to get in my car and drive anywhere inside the borders of this country without a nanny watching over me.

On government owned roads.

[rezman]

On government owned roads.

No .. on publicly owned roads, paid for by the citizens. Not the government.

[Plutonic Panda]

On government owned roads.

Thats what "we the people" pay for. The roads are our roads, not the governments.

[Plutonic Panda]

It isn't "our" roads.

A municipality is a corporation. An affiliate of the state. They are designed to provide services to local groups of state citizens. To do this, they levy taxes, fees, etc.

The roads don't belong to you. They are quite literally the property of the municipality, who derives its power from the State. You own not a single piece of road unless you own ROW (in your name) and pay for the pavement.

Now, you may know all of this but the semantics game means you're simply trying to make a political point where it is a simple matter of jurisdiction.

And more to the matter, a municipality not only has the authority, but the responsibility to maintain the roads and build them with prudence and responsibility. Hence the problem myself and other conservatives have with endless building and expanding of road networks. Especially when pure market forces aren't at work. Enormous subsidies (debt) must be levied to provide this so-called freedom and market choices. A debt myself and others all have to bear. One man's "freedom" is just another man's debt when we are talking about infrastructure. No two ways about it.

Sid, that is exactly why I said the roads are ours. Yours, mine, and every other tax payer out there. I pay taxes, you pay taxes, my neighbor pays taxes; every person in this should be paying their taxes. No tax payers(which is a collective term I use for "us")= no roads. I"m sure if people wanted to, they could band together and build roads with their own money. The government can't and doesn't without taxpayer money.

[Garin]

On government owned roads.

Who pays and paid for the roads?

[Just the facts]

Who pays and paid for the roads?

Indirectly the taxpayers. In OKC it is usually the bond holders, subdivision developers, etc... who pay for the road, and the taxpayers pay them back with interest. Are you trying to imply that the taxpayers own the roads?

[Just the facts]

If you live in a auto-based environment and the government tracks, controls, and taxes your vehicle remotely what choice do you have but to comply? At what point does the car stop representing freedom?

[Plutonic Panda]

If you live in a auto-based environment and the government tracks, controls, and taxes your vehicle remotely what choice do you have but to comply? At what point does the car stop representing freedom?

I am more free since I have my car. If I didn't have my car, I would be stuck at home. I don't like riding buses and trains sitting right next people. I do ride my bike about 5-10 miles each day, but that is for fun.

[Mel]

If you live in a auto-based environment and the government tracks, controls, and taxes your vehicle remotely what choice do you have but to comply? At what point does the car stop representing freedom?

When the gov can do a remote lock out.

[ljbab728]

I never thought that having a car represented freedom.

[MWCGuy]

I will tell you how. All it will take is the right people with corrupt minds to decide what times we can drive, where we can go, where we can't go and how often we go. Any time technology improvements like the one mentioned above start. They start out with the best of intentions however, the worst case scenario is never discussed because they assume everyone will operate the system under the honor system. Not mention technology fails and fails quite often. Then you have the issue with the system being hacked by outside users or a disgruntled employee that gets wind that he is getting fired tomorrow so he conveniently installs a virus or writes code to crash the system. Yeah it's conspiracy talk but, it could happen.

I am one of the car loving public. I love owning my own transportation. I don't have to live on a schedule and I don't have to worry about other people or other situations like union strikes, weather or mechanical problems that are beyond my control making me late for work. Not to mention, I have to travel about 30 miles a day to go to work mass transit would not work for me. I operate my vehicle smartly and my fuel lasts for two weeks.

Yes, I could work closer to home or live closer to work. However, I am renter who found a really good rent rate and was lucky enough to find a good paying job to where I can live a comfortable life in a good neighborhood. What it all comes down to is each citizens situation is unique there is no one size fits all transportation answer for most people in America. You can't force your view on anyone without walking a mile in their shoes.

With that being said, I think the answer is to focus on all modes of transportation for the future. Mass transit could be concentrated on the heavily populated areas with express lines running from the suburban and rural areas to the heavily populated areas. I also think bicycles should pay registration fees and require a bicycle license like the rest of us do for our motor vehicles. You could charge bicyclists $25 per bike per year and a $5 for a 3 year operator license to ride on public roads. The bicycle registration fee could be applied to building/maintaining bike lanes. The license would verify that every rider new the rules of the road for bicycles. Very few people know how to legally ride a bike. I see many running stop signs and not stopping for people in crosswalks. You have to do both on a bicycle. I think you even have to stop for school busses.

All forms of transportation should have equally access. If you try to force people into public transportation all it will do is make cars for the wealthy and force the Average Joe off the road. To be honest I think that is what most of these objectives to change America are all about forcing the bulk of the population to live like poor peasants while the uber rich live the high life. That's the great thing about America everyone gets the opportunity to live however they want and build their lives to be as they want them to be. People don't have to live according to how someone else things they should live provide they are not doing anything that causes great harm to others.

[Richard at Remax]

I love the idea of mass transit but rail doesn't stop at taco bell drive thru

[soonerguru]

I love the idea of mass transit but rail doesn't stop at taco bell drive thru

You eat at Taco Bell? I'm not against fast food per se, but Taco Bell is the butthole of cuisine. It is terrifically bad and practically inedible. You are a "worthy cook?"

[Richard at Remax]

You eat at Taco Bell? I'm not against fast food per se, but Taco Bell is the butthole of cuisine. It is terrifically bad and practically inedible. You are a "worthy cook?"

Yeah I'm no cook. But if you think the Doritos loco taco is "inedible" then I feel sorry for your taste buds.

[catch22]

^

And that's exactly the problem with America. We can't fathom escaping our cars.

[Richard at Remax]

^

And that's exactly the problem with America. We can't fathom escaping our cars.

In a city with Zero rail options, yeah I can't fathom not having my car to get me to work, shopping, entertainment, ect. Put me in a city with an established metro/rail system with those things being accessible to it, yeah I wont need a car. Like plenty of my friends who live in NYC or Chicago.

[Zuplar]

^

And that's exactly the problem with America. We can't fathom escaping our cars.

Why should we? I get that there are several people who could benefit from public transport, even I could. Times I think it would be great are when I want to go to the Thunder game downtown and don't want to mess with parking. Would be nice if I could get on something like the DART in Dallas and be downtown in 15 minutes and avoid the traffic. But many times I need my truck. And I use need loosely here but I'm talking about when I go to Lowes and get some plywood or want to go to the lake and take the boat out with the family. I've never seen mass transit that delivered my boat to the lake. Now maybe that's extreme, but a lot of the crap I see on here is, it's one way or the other, what happened to compromise?

The fact is this country was built on the concept of liberty. People want to be able to do what they want to do, and quite frankly I agree, so long as they aren't hurting anyone. This bull**** notion that everyone needs to sacrifice things they enjoy for everyone else doesn't make sense to me.

Leave the hard working Americans alone and that come to work, pay their taxes, and don't bother anyone else.

[catch22]

Why should we? I get that there are several people who could benefit from public transport, even I could. Times I think it would be great are when I want to go to the Thunder game downtown and don't want to mess with parking. Would be nice if I could get on something like the DART in Dallas and be downtown in 15 minutes and avoid the traffic. But many times I need my truck. And I use need loosely here but I'm talking about when I go to Lowes and get some plywood or want to go to the lake and take the boat out with the family. I've never seen mass transit that delivered my boat to the lake. Now maybe that's extreme, but a lot of the crap I see on here is, it's one way or the other, what happened to compromise?

The fact is this country was built on the concept of liberty. People want to be able to do what they want to do, and quite frankly I agree, so long as they aren't hurting anyone. This bull**** notion that everyone needs to sacrifice things they enjoy for everyone else doesn't make sense to me.

Leave the hard working Americans alone and that come to work, pay their taxes, and don't bother anyone else.

No one is saying you can't own a car (or truck). Or that it is bad that you do.

I love driving. I like going out on the open highway, roll my windows down, turn the volume up. Or if I am feeling bad, turn the radio off and drive around and think.

However, we are too dependent on them. Commuting isn't fun. Sitting in traffic isn't fun. It would be nice to have alternatives to that: either public transit or the ability to simply walk or bike.

[Zuplar]

No one is saying you can't own a car (or truck). Or that it is bad that you do.

I love driving. I like going out on the open highway, roll my windows down, turn the volume up. Or if I am feeling bad, turn the radio off and drive around and think.

However, we are too dependent on them. Commuting isn't fun. Sitting in traffic isn't fun. It would be nice to have alternatives to that: either public transit or the ability to simply walk or bike.

I don't know that we are too dependent on them, I think it has more to do with people don't see what little public transportation we have as a viable alternative. I definitely agree with your sentiment that sitting in traffic isn't fun.

But there are there share of people who think cars just need to go away and we need to walk, bike, or ride a train or bus everywhere. I don't see this is every being doable, but a good supplement will attract people when they see that it can be easier in certain circumstances.