Random musings about the failure of cafeterias...

[SoonerDave]

When I was growing up, Oklahoma City had a really nice variety of basic, simple cafeterias. They offered a varied menu of salads, meats, fish, poultry, desserts, vegetables, and mostly fairly reasonable prices. Yet now, I note that most if not all these kinds of places have pretty much dried up and disappeared. Given today's eating-out predisposition, and that families have a difficult time all agreeing on a single place to eat, it would seem to me that places like cafeterias would be in a position to thrive - about as close as one could come to being all things to all people. I remember as a kid that I could get a piece of fried chicken and mashed potatoes, my mom could get roast or vegetables, and my dad could get whatever he liked. And they had fruit pies, cream pies, ice cream, you name it. And they were seemingly always busy.

OKC had Dodson's, O'Mealy's, and later Morrisons, even Luby's for a brief while; Furr's (original) cafeterias (not the slop trough in Moore), Anna Maude's, and that's naming only a very very few. Perhaps the concept as presented in those instances was a bit dated, but it seems to me that a fresher approach to the same concept could still be successful, yet obviously it isn't. The "buffet" concept like HomeTown Buffet was comparable, I suppose, but their prices just skyrocketed to the point where they really weren't a viable option toward the end of their presence here.

Any ideas? I'm obviously no restaurant/food industry expert, just an observer who has thought this particular failing was really curious. Perhaps the cost issue was the final driver, or perhaps cafeterias are still successful in other parts of the country. Not sure. Just found it a curiosity.

[Martin]

you say okc had luby's "for a brief while" but they're actually one of the few surviving cafeterias in okc... last i knew, there's still a location operating at may and britton. other than that, there's the boulevard. off the top of my head, i can't think of any other active cafeterias in the city.

to your point, the "problem" reminds me of a book i once read in a sociology class back in college: the mcdonaldization of america. the idea is that during the 20th century, many american consumers trained themselves to value quantity over quality. i think that change in consumer perceptions and habits over time helped make "all you can eat" style establishments more successful than "ala carte" style establishments. -M

[SoonerDave]

you say okc had luby's "for a brief while" but they're actually one of the few surviving cafeterias in okc... last i knew, there's still a location operating at may and britton. other than that, there's the boulevard. off the top of my head, i can't think of any other active cafeterias in the city.

to your point, the "problem" reminds me of a book i once read in a sociology class back in college: the mcdonaldization of america. the idea is that during the 20th century, many american consumers trained themselves to value quantity over quality. i think that change in consumer perceptions and habits over time helped make "all you can eat" style establishments more successful than "ala carte" style establishments. -M

My apologies! I thought all the OKC Luby's were gone, and I (obviously) don't get up to the May and Britton area very often.

And I think your point is very well taken. I remember when we frequented Furr's in Moore, back when that Shields mall wasn't so scary, and also remember when they first started the flirtation with AYCE or "refills on entrees" or one of the other ways they pushed it from the marketing department. I guess I was an oddball in that, during that era, I was a distinct minority as a (relatively) younger person there, so perhaps the die had been cast by then. I do miss the old Furr's baked cod. It was really, really good. Whatever they sold as its substitute at the slop trough in the Moore replacement site was a far cry from it, and we haven't been back. Oh, well.

I would think that with a seemingly renewed attention on a better balance of food in a hope to achieve a better overall quality of diet, that "quality versus quantity" notion might shift back the other way some. Perhaps the bigger issue is that until you can stick a drive through around a cafeteria, that notion is merely an artifact of a largely bygone era.

[rezman]

Ever been to Golden Corral? They have some really tasty stuff of their menus, and the place really packs them in. Especially on Sundays. The name "corral is particularly fitting because diners are herded through there, and there are some folks who hang around the buffet lines and graze.

The last time I was there, is was so busy that it really made for an unpleasant dinning experience.

[SoonerDave]

Ever been to Golden Corral? They have some really tasty stuff of their menus, and the place really packs them in. Especially on Sundays. The name "corral is particularly fitting because diners are herded through there, and there are some folks who hang around the buffet lines and graze.

The last time I was there, is was so busy that it really made for an unpleasant dinning experience.

Yeah, after the one on 240 was razed and rebuilt. Some of its okay, some of it isn't. Meh. Don't hate it, don't love it. Having tried to cut the calories over the last three years, a place like GC just isn't a very good choice - lots of deep fried stuff (love it, mind you, just not a regular habit), although they usually have some roasted chicken breasts or something of that nature. Like I said, don't hate it, don't love it.

It just strikes me as the kind of mass-feed place WalMart might build. I will say that they at least try to keep the new place cleaner than the previous one, but that isn't saying much. And it darned sure isn't the ol' cafeteria experience I remember from Dodson's et al, where there was at least some...oh, what's the word....grace to the meal? Pleasant, only moderately noisy environment, modestly lit, conversational, that kind of thing. Mind you, not looking for tuxedos and formal wear at all, but somehow GC is the opposite extreme of that.

[rezman]

Yeah, after the one on 240 was razed and rebuilt. Some of its okay, some of it isn't. Meh. Don't hate it, don't love it. Having tried to cut the calories over the last three years, a place like GC just isn't a very good choice - lots of deep fried stuff (love it, mind you, just not a regular habit), although they usually have some roasted chicken breasts or something of that nature. Like I said, don't hate it, don't love it.

It just strikes me as the kind of mass-feed place WalMart might build. I will say that they at least try to keep the new place cleaner than the previous one, but that isn't saying much. And it darned sure isn't the ol' cafeteria experience I remember from Dodson's et al, where there was at least some...oh, what's the word....grace to the meal? Pleasant, only moderately noisy environment, modestly lit, conversational, that kind of thing. Mind you, not looking for tuxedos and formal wear at all, but somehow GC is the opposite extreme of that.

I think you nailed it ... "mass feeding place" .. and to tell you the truth, I have not been back since. ... Absolutely not a cafeteria. I remember my folks taking us to O'Mealys, Lady Classen and Queen Anne's fairly often. They had a kind of class to them that is long gone.

[RadicalModerate]

When I was a kid, just about the only place we ever went out to eat at was the local Furrs. This was dad's destination of choice. Why? Because "they have such a variety to choose from." What did he get EVERY SINGLE TIME we went? One of those chopped steaks with gravy. I liked Furrs. I expecially liked their fish (either baked or fried).

My wife and I go to Luby's once in a great while. The food is generally okay. So are the prices. Something once occurred at Luby's that I wrote up and submitted to Reader's Digest. They liked it enough to condense it down to a handful of words, publish it, and pay me $300! Here's a version of the TRUE story:

So, we go through the line at Luby's, I select some fish and my wife selects the very last piece of some grilled chicken breast. I'm enjoying my fish and she is just sort of picking at her chicken. I ask her if there's a problem. She says that the chicken is so tough that she can't cut it with a knife. Then she says, "I know you hate it when I do this, but I'm taking this back and getting something else," then leaves the table.

Right after she goes, a little Hispanic hostess comes over and says, "Ees everytheeng okay . . ?"

I say, "Actually, no. My wife's chicken is so tough she can't cut it with a knife."

After a one second pause, the hostess says, "Can I breeng you a deefferent knife?"

[kevinpate]

It's been a bit, too long of a bit actually, since my last trip to Blvd. Cafeteria. I had popped in to OKC for a seminar and called an old friend for lunch. As neither of us had been recently, we agreed to meet at the cafeteria for lunch, arriving just as it opened. We made our selections and took a seat, as a few others strolled in after us. The place was not busy at all, but again, we got there as it opened.

And it it hit us. Here we were, two long time friends, both in our fifty's, and yet in that cafeteria, we were the kiddie table, sitting off to the side while the elders had their own tables. I still laugh about it when it crosses my mind.

[kevinpate]

One can eat rather healthy at a Golden Corral or a Furr's or a typical Chinese buffet place.
I know this to be true. I've seen other folks at my table do so on numerous occasions.

[rezman]

One can eat rather healthy at a Golden Corral or a Furr's or a typical Chinese buffet place.
I know this to be true. I've seen other folks at my table do so on numerous occasions.

Kevin! ;D

[MadMonk]

When I was a teen, we used to go to the Furr's at 63rd and MacArthur on occasion. About the only things remarkable I can remember about the place are the great desserts and that all the entrees were bland and lacked flavor. I needed to salt & pepper the crap out of just about anything I chose. I imagine it was the preference of the seemingly prehistoric clientele that frequented the place.

[ctchandler]

My mother used to take us to Anna Maude's and that was a treat. They had great pastries, especially the chocolate eclairs. Another good one when I was a child was Dodson's. Locally owned, one store for many years, and a second one opened in the late 50's to 60's. I also ate at Adair's fairly often in my early adult life. There was one on Lincoln Boulevard and I worked just North of 36th so it was pretty handy when I was in a hurry. Maybe my youth, or my stupidity, but I always liked cafeterias and ate at them through the 90's for lunch. A cafeteria was always on our lunch rotation. I haven't eaten at one in a long time so maybe they have changed. The one exception for me was Home Town Buffet or whatever it was called at the time (I think they changed hands at least twice, maybe three times), I thought their food was nasty. Unfortunately, the guys I lunched with liked it, so it was one of the cafeterias on our list.
C. T.

[SoonerDave]

My mother used to take us to Anna Maude's and that was a treat. They had great pastries, especially the chocolate eclairs. Another good one when I was a child was Dodson's. Locally owned, one store for many years, and a second one opened in the late 50's to 60's. I also ate at Adair's fairly often in my early adult life. There was one on Lincoln Boulevard and I worked just North of 36th so it was pretty handy when I was in a hurry. Maybe my youth, or my stupidity, but I always liked cafeterias and ate at them through the 90's for lunch. A cafeteria was always on our lunch rotation. I haven't eaten at one in a long time so maybe they have changed. The one exception for me was Home Town Buffet or whatever it was called at the time (I think they changed hands at least twice, maybe three times), I thought their food was nasty. Unfortunately, the guys I lunched with liked it, so it was one of the cafeterias on our list.
C. T.

HomeTown Buffet (at least the one on I-240) was immediately before that a "Duff's Smorgasbord," and it was ghastly. One of the worst restaurant/food things ever. Absolutely the worst chicken I'd ever had, just tasted old and stale. Everything we had just tasted nasty. Got up and left. I don't think it was around very long before it closed down, then reopened as HTB. Don't know if the two outfits were related/different names, or if they sold out, or what, but it put the B in Bad.

Now that I think about it, I'm 99% sure that Duff's wasn't the first place to occupy that building on I-240, but for the life of me I can't remember what did. There was (well, is) a similar if not identical building on NW Expy that presently holds an Olive Garden if I'm not mistaken, and I suppose its possible they were in that building where HTB was and later moved to their current location in the Walnut Creek Shopping Center (which was, as I recall, a Joe Kelly's originally). Just don't remember with certainty what that building was....alas....memories ain't what they used to be

...There are plenty of restaurants that offer more variety than a cafeteria -- Applebee's & Chili's for example ...

True, and while I will be the first to offer how much my family enjoys Applebee's for precisely that reason, I will offer that the food made in most of those "classic" cafeterias was, certainly for the locally owned ones, made on-site, fresh, every day. The Applebee's et al have a great portion of their menu prepackaged and shipped in vacuum-sealed containers/polybags/what have you that is then reheated/reconstituted on site. And Dodson's fresh chocolate icebox pie was just the most incredible thing you ever tasted

[UnclePete]

I saw a picture in a historical web site of the Cattleman's Cafeteria. Where would it have been? I don't think it was related to Cattleman's Steak House.

[ctchandler]

SoonerDave,
The one on NW Expressway was/is on the North side, at the Expressway and 63rd intersection. I don't remember if it was Duff's or not but I'm certain it was three different names.
C. T.

There was (well, is) a similar if not identical building on NW Expy that presently holds an Olive Garden if I'm not mistaken, and I suppose its possible they were in that building where HTB was and later moved to their current location in the Walnut Creek Shopping Center (which was, as I recall, a Joe Kelly's originally). Just don't remember with certainty what that building was....alas....memories ain't what they used to be

[Pete]

True, and while I will be the first to offer how much my family enjoys Applebee's for precisely that reason, I will offer that the food made in most of those "classic" cafeterias was, certainly for the locally owned ones, made on-site, fresh, every day. The Applebee's et al have a great portion of their menu prepackaged and shipped in vacuum-sealed containers/polybags/what have you that is then reheated/reconstituted on site. And Dodson's fresh chocolate icebox pie was just the most incredible thing you ever tasted

The dishes served at Applebee's and Chili's are far more complex and diverse than the standard cafeteria fare.

Entrees in cafeterias where generally just basic stuff like meatloaf and roast with maybe some plain fish or chicken thrown in. If they did something like enchiladas they were usually incredibly bland.

So, the chains have to figure out a way to deliver consistency and somewhat fresh-tasting food when it offers items on the menu that might not be ordered for days at a time.

I'm not advocating for these places because I almost never eat at any chain, but I'm also sure the standard entree at Applebee's is far more flavorful than anything a cafeteria had sitting in it's steam bins.

[SoonerDave]

The dishes served at Applebee's and Chili's are far more complex and diverse than the standard cafeteria fare.

Entrees in cafeterias where generally just basic stuff like meatloaf and roast with maybe some plain fish or chicken thrown in. If they did something like enchiladas they were usually incredibly bland.

So, the chains have to figure out a way to deliver consistency and somewhat fresh-tasting food when it offers items on the menu that might not be ordered for days at a time.

I'm not advocating for these places because I almost never eat at any chain, but I'm also sure the standard entree at Applebee's is far more flavorful than anything a cafeteria had sitting in it's steam bins.

I guess my memories of cafeterias aren't quite as jaded as yours, Pete There were some nice places back in the day. I know they're never coming back, as I guess no one else remembers anything other than the dreaded "steam bins." And I've not tasted a slice of pie anywhere that could come close to Dodson's chocolate ice box pie, steam bins notwithstanding.

[Pete]

Cafeterias are a dying concept all over the country. I never, ever see them here in California, although I'm sure there are still some around.

All the chain cafeterias have pulled way, way back. I know there is still a Luby's on N. May and a Furr's in Moore but both used to have multiple locations in OKC.


I simply think people have way more -- and frankly, better -- options now than they did when cafeterias were a big thing.

The whole concept is almost certain to yield mediocre food, because they are preparing all types of dishes in advance, then letting them sit around. I am always suspicious of any place with a very broad menu: 'Jack of all trades, master of none'. And I really don't like buffets because food is prepared in advance and then just sits. Even McDonald's no longer makes burgers ahead of time.


There are plenty of restaurants that offer more variety than a cafeteria -- Applebee's & Chili's for example (breakfast, burgers, sandwiches, pasta, salads, appetizers, ribs, seafood, steaks, tacos, chicken, pizza, full bar and many deserts, and a kid's menu with a dozen or more items), and then places like the Cheesecake Factory take it to a whole new level. Even Sonic has an amazing array of food items.

[Buffalo Bill]

I think, too, in many areas of the country most grocery stores have a fairly comprehensive array of hot and cold food bars, in house coffee joints, sandwichs made to order, etc., similar to what Whole Foods offers here.

This is the norm in many newer grocery stores.

[jdcf]

I am still a fan of cafeterias, perhaps because of childhood memories. Anna Maude was always a treat, and we also enjoyed The Forum which was on the north side of Main St and had a large circular staircase leading to the upstairs serving line. I like that I can select a well balanced meal with normal serving sizes, not the extreme portions found at most restaurants these days.

[Martin]

Now that I think about it, I'm 99% sure that Duff's wasn't the first place to occupy that building on I-240, but for the life of me I can't remember what did. There was (well, is) a similar if not identical building on NW Expy that presently holds an Olive Garden if I'm not mistaken

did a search for "1012 sw 74th" on the oklahoman's archives. the earliest ad returned (which was for duff's) was in january of 1983. in december of 1985, the place was called 'the choice buffet & deli.' i'm not sure how long after that the place was called 'hometown buffet', but i don't remember anything in between. -M

[Martin]

...as for olive garden, the first olive garden in the city opened in late 1987 at 6628 nw expressway which was the former site of a duff's. the second in the city opened in the walnut square shopping center sometime in 1989 in the former joe kelley's spot. -M

[SoonerDave]

...as for olive garden, the first olive garden in the city opened in late 1987 at 6628 nw expressway which was the former site of a duff's. the second in the city opened in the walnut square shopping center sometime in 1989 in the former joe kelley's spot. -M

Aha! "The Choice!" I believe that was actually one of the original operating names that evolved into HTB. Knew there was a missing link in there!

Joe Kelly was a pretty big name in the restaurant business in that time frame, because I'm reasonably sure they also ran a bunch of Chi Chi's Mexican Restaurants - one on I-240 where yours truly worked as a busboy for a time. That was back before county-option liquor by the drink had been approved, but the place had an open bar and would periodically get raided by ABLE. The restaurant was busy all the time, too - we had two-hour-plus waits for tables back at the height of ChiChi's popularity. Things started to fade, as I recall, and rumors of unwise financial dealings began circulating around Joe Kelly, and eventually the whole thing went bankrupt. Hope I'm not getting the names confused on Joe Kelly, but don't think I am.

The Chi Chi's on 240 was eventually an IU Sports Grill, which failed, and the building was later torn down and turned into a Krispy Kreme, which failed, and now hosts "The Garage" burger joint under Hal Smith...

[Jim Kyle]

Joe Kelly was a pretty big name in the restaurant business in that time frame, because I'm reasonably sure they also ran a bunch of Chi Chi's Mexican Restaurants - one on I-240 where yours truly worked as a busboy for a time. That was back before county-option liquor by the drink had been approved, but the place had an open bar and would periodically get raided by ABLE. The restaurant was busy all the time, too - we had two-hour-plus waits for tables back at the height of ChiChi's popularity. Things started to fade, as I recall, and rumors of unwise financial dealings began circulating around Joe Kelly, and eventually the whole thing went bankrupt. Hope I'm not getting the names confused on Joe Kelly, but don't think I am.

Kelly was, indeed, a rather big name in that time frame. I remember when he built the little place on the north side of 240, originally as a "McCracken's Mill" I believe. A son of a close friend and bowling partner was the first manager of it, so my wife and I were invited to the pre-opening party "on the house" and it was great.

That same son later helped open the very first TGIF in OKC, in the building near NW Hiway and Rockwell that's now occupied by Fazoli's.

After the initial bankruptcy of Kelly's enterprises, he opened a small place called Gator's on Country Club Drive, just east of May and slightly south of Grand. It didn't last long, but all of us at "Automation Resources Inc." ate there often since our own offices were less than half a block away...

[rezman]

...as for olive garden, the first olive garden in the city opened in late 1987 at 6628 nw expressway which was the former site of a duff's. the second in the city opened in the walnut square shopping center sometime in 1989 in the former joe kelley's spot. -M

I remember Duff's on the south side of NW Hwy , east of Rockwell. It had the carousel that had the food on it and it came out from behing the wall to the left and you could stand there and make your selections as the food went by. It went back into to wall on the right where it was restocked out of view.

We used to kid my foreman at the time, who was a very large man, that he would just grab a fork and a chair and sit down in front of the carousel and eat what he wanted as the food went by.