Walmart

[Just the facts]

To keep all the Walmart discussion out of the other threads I thought we could have one just for them.

I am starting to wonder if the days of Walmart might be numbered. When I used to drive to Atlanta (3 years ago) I went through Waycross, GA almost every week. At one time Waycross was a booming town with a surprising large downtown for a community it's size. This was because Waycross was the center of a large farming area and everyone came to downtown to shop. Then Walmart built a store on the edge of town and downtown died. I remember driving through and seeing the Walmart parking lot full and then driving by downtown Waycross and see abandoned building with boarded up windows. It made me sad. Why would people destroy their own town to save a few dollars on stuff that was cheaply made?

My kids have a karate event in Waycross this Saturday so I am taking them up for the day. The wife asked what I was going to do with my few hours of time and I told her I was going to downtown and take some pictures of the old abandoned buildings. Concerned for my safety she asked me to show her the area on Google Earth. To my surprise, downtown Waycross has been revitalized and now looks really nice; on-street parking, businesses in all the store fronts, new downtown streets and sidewalks, pedestrian friendly intersections, historic street light etc... They even have 4 downtown restaurants now. Now my wife is thinking about going with me.

I am starting to wonder if Walmart will be able to survive in small town America if these communities restore the civic pride they once had. All I know is this - for the first time in my life I am actually looking forward to going to Waycross, GA.

[bchris02]

I'm not sure if its this way in all markets, but in OKC, Wal-Mart locations are always understaffed and poorly stocked. I don't see their days as numbered yet though. There are too many markets where Wal-Mart has little or no real competition. Most people I know shop there because its convenient and its cheaper plus in OKC they have taken over the way they have many smaller markets. Most people who don't shop at Wal-Mart do so on principle, especially in OKC where its difficult to avoid.

[Servicetech571]

I'm not sure if its this way in all markets, but in OKC, Wal-Mart locations are always understaffed and poorly stocked. I don't see their days as numbered yet though. There are too many markets where Wal-Mart has little or no real competition. Most people I know shop there because its convenient and its cheaper plus in OKC they have taken over the way they have many smaller markets. Most people who don't shop at Wal-Mart do so on principle, especially in OKC where its difficult to avoid.

Dollar General is growing like crazy in Oklahoma, especially once you get to the outskirts of the metro. They are popping up all over the place in rural areas, getting traffic of the people not wanting to drive to town to fight Walmart traffic. Prices are competitive with Walmart.

For people who have time to wait there is always the internet, prices are even cheaper than Walmart.

[BBatesokc]

Dollar General is growing like crazy in Oklahoma, especially once you get to the outskirts of the metro. They are popping up all over the place in rural areas, getting traffic of the people not wanting to drive to town to fight Walmart traffic. Prices are competitive with Walmart.

For people who have time to wait there is always the internet, prices are even cheaper than Walmart.

I certainly patronize Dollar General and their competition when I need some of the basics. My only issue is it tends to take forever to check out and some of their 'low prices' are deceptive. The product is often not identical to what the big box stores are selling. A gallon of "X" at Walmart may be $.75 more expensive, based on size - but its a concentrated version. Where the dollar store version is not concentrated and therefore actually more expensive. That said, lately I've found some items I typically buy at Sam's are actually often cheaper at Walmart. I reserve the dollar type store for the times when the wife yells, "would you mind running to the store and picking up x, y, z." (paper towels, napkins, soda pop, cleaning product or canned good).

I shop Target too. I find it odd Target usually avoids the hatred spewed at Walmart when they are certainly not so different - other than the packaging of the shopping experience. I just find Target to have the exact same basics at often higher to much higher prices. Foolish to pay more for the exact same thing.

Well, my mother worked there for many years and raised us on it, and also we relied on the discounts for the Christmas shopping. But take that however you want. All I can provide for proof is personal knowledge and experience. Sam was a great employer. His heirs, not so much.

Again, I really have my doubts that in the 80's cashiers were making $13-$15/hr on their paychecks - but I have no proof. I've done some hunting online and all I can find backs up what I said earlier - Sam did not like paying his employees more than he had to.

[Bunty]

I shop Target too. I find it odd Target usually avoids the hatred spewed at Walmart when they are certainly not so different - other than the packaging of the shopping experience.

Target avoids the hate, because unlike Wal-Mart it chose to stay out of small towns for the most part. And from there, Wal-Mart wasn't just driving out small mom and pop stores, it was also running off entire regional retail chains trying to make it, such as Gibson's.

[Buffalo Bill]

Target avoids the hate, because unlike Wal-Mart it chose to stay out of small towns for the most part. And from there, Wal-Mart wasn't just driving out small mom and pop stores, it was also running off entire regional retail chains trying to make it, such as Gibson's.

That and their shopping experience, taken in its entirety, doesn't suck beyond belief like that at Wallyworld.

[bchris02]

Target avoids the hate, because unlike Wal-Mart it chose to stay out of small towns for the most part. And from there, Wal-Mart wasn't just driving out small mom and pop stores, it was also running off entire regional retail chains trying to make it, such as Gibson's.

You can say they have done the same thing in OKC with the grocery stores (Albertson's for instance). Target's business practice is entirely different from Wal-Mart. When Target comes into town, its intention isn't running everything else out of business and becoming the only place to shop.

That and their shopping experience, taken in its entirety, doesn't suck beyond belief like that at Wallyworld.

True. The entire Wal-Mart experience is just terrible. I actually wouldn't mind shopping at Wal-Mart neighborhood markets if they would just stock them well and had more than a couple of people working the cash registers during busy times.

[Just the facts]

We will see if this is a trend I guess but it is safe to say that most small towns were sucker punched by Walmart. Town leaders had visions that Walmart was going to save their towns but all Walmart really did was kick their historic downtowns into their graves. Now some of these small towns are crawling up out of the grave, dusting themselves off, and fighting back.

It's not just Waycross either - other rural towns in the region here are rediscovering their collective civic pride. Check out Stark, FL. I haven't been there in 15 years but the last time I was there downtown was totally abandoned. Now every nearly store is full and they are sporting a sidewalk cafe.

I'm not saying Walmart will be gone in a year (as their parking lots are still full) but I just like where this is going. If Walmart loses small town America that could spell trouble for them.

[bchris02]

We will see if this is a trend I guess but it is safe to say that most small towns were sucker punched by Walmart. Town leaders had visions that Walmart was going to save their towns but all Walmart really did was kick their historic downtowns into their graves. Now some of these small towns are crawling up out of the grave, dusting themselves off, and fighting back.

It's not just Waycross either - other rural towns in the region here are rediscovering their collective civic pride. Check out Stark, FL. I haven't been there in 15 years but the last time I was there downtown was totally abandoned. Now every nearly store is full and they are sporting a sidewalk cafe.

I'm not saying Walmart will be gone in a year (as their parking lots are still full) but I just like where this is going. If Walmart loses small town America that could spell trouble for them.

One thing about rural America is you once had to drive to larger cities/towns to go to Kmart/Target/TG&Y for even basic staples or buy from the local mom/pop store at a much higher price (if they had what you needed in stock). Wal-Mart brings what was once big-town conveniences to the small town. While Wal-Mart has become a symbol of low-class, rural America, superstores like that used to be non-existent there. While I can definitely see some small boutique towns fighting back, I doubt that is happening in a majority of the cases. Americans are addicted to Wal-Mart.

[Bunty]

Downtown stores could try surviving better in the presence of big box stores by getting involved in merchandising and services that Wal-Mart wants no part of, such as used merchandize, jewelry repair, bars, nice restaurants, etc. Maybe that's how they did it in Waycross, perhaps along with making downtown a BID (Business Improvement District), meaning downtown business owners had their taxes raised.

[Just the facts]

Since Waycross is just outside the Jacksonville media market I am not sure how they did it but I know the rebuilding of the public realm wasn't free. I agree that if big box retailers would join the effort to bring local downtowns back to life huge progress could be made. Walmart could play a role but it goes against everything their company believes in.

[Bunty]

Since Waycross is just outside the Jacksonville media market I am not sure how they did it but I know the rebuilding of the public realm wasn't free. I agree that if big box retailers would join the effort to bring local downtowns back to life huge progress could be made. Walmart could play a role but it goes against everything their company believes in.

So a Wal-mart on one side of downtown and a Home Depot on the other wouldn't drive the little stores in between out of business from the big boxes drawing people downtown? If so, maybe the big box stores feel they don't owe the little stores any favor. Wal-Mart wants the little stores in its front, so you have to go to Wal-Mart to get to them.

[Just the facts]

So a Wal-mart on one side of downtown and a Home Depot on the other wouldn't drive the little stores in between out of business from the big boxes drawing people downtown?

I don't think so. If that was the case no retailers would ever locate in a shopping mall or strip shopping center with other stores selling the same items near by. In actuality, the modern shopping mall does exactly what you just described. They put large anchors on the ends, a public feature in the center (usually a fountain, gazebo, or stage) with smaller retailers lining the path in between (with a unified 'streetwall' I might add). BTW - did you know that the stores lining the faux public realm at center court are the most expensive to rent, which is why they are often occupied by jewelry stores, and store near the anchors are the cheapest to rent, which is why they are occupied by pet stores, places selling baseball caps, eye glass stores, and used game dealers (gamestop).

Retailers need to differentiate themselves from each other but when they locate next to each other the whole is greater than the parts. How many places can you buy a shirt at in Penn Sq. mall? If you need a shirt where are you most likely to go if you want options to pick from?

What Walmart did was essentially create their own downtown from a 'goods' stand point, but then they put it on the edge of town with a large parking lot - but what Walmart can't compete with is the sense of place and civic pride an actual downtown can provide - in fact, for many rural towns they killed both of those ideas for a generation.

[Bunty]

I don't think so. If that was the case no retailers would ever locate in a shopping mall or strip shopping center with other stores selling the same items near by. In actuality, the modern shopping mall does exactly what you just described. They put large anchors on the ends, a public feature in the center (usually a fountain, gazebo, or stage) with smaller retailers lining the path in between (with a unified 'streetwall' I might add). BTW - did you know that the stores lining the faux public realm at center court are the most expensive to rent, which is why they are often occupied by jewelry stores, and store near the anchors are the cheapest to rent, which is why they are occupied by pet stores, places selling baseball caps, eye glass stores, and used game dealers (gamestop).

Muskogee and Lawton have enclosed shopping malls downtown. I haven't been to either one in a long time. So I wonder if the presence of their malls have done more harm than good to their downtowns.

[Just the facts]

Muskogee and Lawton have enclosed shopping malls downtown. I haven't been to either one in a long time. So I wonder if the presence of their malls have done more harm than good to their downtowns.

Hold on - you changed one of the criteria there. Enclosed shopping malls generally hurt businesses outside the mall because they steal pedestrian from the sidewalk, a real public realm, and put them in the fake public realm of the center court and mall corridor (which closes when the mall closes and isn't owned by the public at all). It has generally been accepted that enclosed downtown malls turned out to be bad ideas - in fact, based on the vast number of abandoned malls over the last 30 years the entire concept of an indoor might have been a bad idea.

Very interesting article on the rise and fall of the shopping mall.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/art...s-retire/2568/

[kevinpate]

mmm, those are fairly tame for people of walmart images.

[Just the facts]

mmm, those are fairly tame for people of walmart images.

I didn't want to post anything that might get me banned. Clearly some people have mental issues (like I suspect the guy in the pink above has), but some of the others don't have any excuse - and probably even think they look good.

[Stew]

As a consumer I've spent a lot of money at Walmart over the years but quite frankly since the 2007 recession Walmart has taken a nosedive, at least in the OKC area. Somewhere along the way they lost me as a customer. I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in a while. I'm sure others feel the same way. It's a shame too because there was a time when Walmart rocked.

[bchris02]

As a consumer I've spent a lot of money at Walmart over the years but quite frankly since the 2007 recession Walmart has taken a nosedive, at least in the OKC area. Somewhere along the way they lost me as a customer. I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in a while. I'm sure others feel the same way. It's a shame too because there was a time when Walmart rocked.

I agree. Wal-Marts in OKC are some of the worst I've seen as far service, cleanliness, and being well stocked. I wonder why that is the case. My guess is that it has to do with the lack of competition here. Yes there are alternatives but they are negligible and aren't making Wal-Mart sweat at all.

[kelroy55]

I agree. Wal-Marts in OKC are some of the worst I've seen as far service, cleanliness, and being well stocked. I wonder why that is the case. My guess is that it has to do with the lack of competition here. Yes there are alternatives but they are negligible and aren't making Wal-Mart sweat at all.

I have several choices here but I prefer Krogers or Albertsons over Wal-Mart.

[kevinpate]

The chap who preferred sensible height heels to sandals had a modicum of fashion sense, at least at the color level. The chap in the white speedo, well, to borrow a style from Maher - NEW RULE - If you're a member of the chunky monkey club and you're wearing less fabric than your lady friend ... don't. Please, just don't.

[ThomPaine]

Had to run into a Neighborhood Wal-Mart the other day. About 6:15 a.m., so nothing else in the area I was in was open. Bought about ten items for a breakfast meeting. Store was open and I saw one employee in the store near the dairy case. Went to check out and nobody there. Checked out using the self checkout (which I really hate), and was on my way.

Maybe the plan is to make their checkout employees obsolete, and basically make it a complete self-serve experience. I'm sure the money lost due to shrinkage would be more than offset by the savings in hiring the stereotypical Wal-Mart employee to stand around a be of little help anyway.

[kevinpate]

Might be for the best. ya never know when you'll stumble across someone you know.

<beenthere.donethat.gotthetshirttheyshouldaworn>

[kelroy55]

Anyway back on topic I think Wal-Mart provided something consumers wanted and if there was room for a store in the downtown area they might have built it there. It's the same thing Lowes and Home Depot have done to the old hardware stores.

[Teo9969]

Are Walmart's days numbered?

Well...I mean, they can only go down from being the #1 Fortune 500 company after overtaking Exxon last year...