Downtown Grocery Store

[bchris02]

One of the things many people who live downtown or support downtown's growth want to see is a full-service grocery store. Native Roots is a start, but most people desire something larger. The thing is, we have to be careful what we wish for. Wal-Mart could easily put in a SuperCenter downtown which would be detrimental to developing the type of urban environment most want downtown to become. Steve mentioned a SuperTarget which could work if done right like this one in Charlotte.



Another option would be something like a 2-story Crest Fresh Market, creating a lower overall footprint for the store but still enough square footage to have a full store. Something like that would also attract people from outside the downtown area being that people drive all the way from NW OKC to shop at Crest at 104th and S May.

Whatever ends up coming, somebody needs to get there before Wal-Mart does.

Does anybody think downtown is ready today for a grocery store and is anything possibly in the works?

[Mississippi Blues]

I have no idea where OKC stands on being able to support one or if one is already in the works, but I think Target's CityTarget concept would be a great addition here. Even an urban Wal-Mart/Wal-Mart Express wouldn't be devilish, although I'd prefer a Target.

[bchris02]

I have no idea where OKC stands on being able to support one or if one is already in the works, but I think Target's CityTarget concept would be a great addition here. Even an urban Wal-Mart/Wal-Mart Express wouldn't be devilish, although I'd prefer a Target.

The problem with Wal-Mart is anything they build is always suburban in nature and given the track record in places like Bricktown, I doubt the city would force them to change their design. Plus, fair or not, Wal-Mart has a stigma.

[kbsooner]

The problem with Wal-Mart is anything they build is always suburban in nature and given the track record in places like Bricktown, I doubt the city would force them to change their design. Plus, fair or not, Wal-Mart has a stigma.

This is not wholly true. In the central US, yes, where land is ample and cheap. They made a big push in Cali last year, and they are buying/leasing many old and empty retail spaces in semi dense neighborhoods. That being said, I doubt the Downtown OKC area has enough density yet to make them take notice, but it could in a couple of years. They are always playing with smaller concepts, article below is an excellent example.

UFCW 324

[BDP]

Personally, I would not like to have anything of the "super" variety. For me the appeal of urban areas is the varitety of small shops in a walkable environment. I certainly wouldn't be outspoken against a super mart, as long as it didn't involve demolition or the creation of a vast parking lot that interrupts the urban landscape. But something more along the lines of a 10-20k square foot full service grocery would be more appealing. However just not sure how much interest the industry has in those type of stores. The best would be a collection of specialty markets and I like that those seem to be what we're seeing so far. If they can gain footing before a mega store comes in, then I think we can create a real urban option for people in Oklahoma City.

[CaptDave]

A local alternative would be for Buy 4 Less to take their Uptown Grocery concept from Edmond to ... well, to town. The basic building design of the Edmond store would work very well in many locations but I think somewhere in Midtown would be great. Maybe on one of those huge open areas north of 10th?

[bchris02]

A local alternative would be for Buy 4 Less to take their Uptown Grocery concept from Edmond to ... well, to town. The basic building design of the Edmond store would work very well in many locations but I think somewhere in Midtown would be great. Maybe on one of those huge open areas north of 10th?

I didn't think about this, but it would be perfect.

[Plutonic Panda]

A local alternative would be for Buy 4 Less to take their Uptown Grocery concept from Edmond to ... well, to town. The basic building design of the Edmond store would work very well in many locations but I think somewhere in Midtown would be great. Maybe on one of those huge open areas north of 10th?

Don't you take my store away from meh now!!! lol, I think Up(Down)town grocery would be a huge success downtown no doubt though

[traxx]

A local alternative would be for Buy 4 Less to take their Uptown Grocery concept from Edmond to ... well, to town. The basic building design of the Edmond store would work very well in many locations but I think somewhere in Midtown would be great. Maybe on one of those huge open areas north of 10th?

I think this is an idea that hasn't gotten talked about enough. This would be perfect downtown. If you could just take the Edmond store, right click, copy, paste - it would fit in well downtown.

[Praedura]

I think this is an idea that hasn't gotten talked about enough. This would be perfect downtown. If you could just take the Edmond store, right click, copy, paste - it would fit in well downtown.

Some photos, just for reference:

A rendering:




The real thing:

[Just the facts]

One of the biggest problems with the CityTarget concept is Wall Street. The concept was launched in early 2012 and by mid-2012 the Wall Street analyst were already calling it a failure and of course, we know what happens to companies who don't increase their stock value every quarter. Outside a few cities in the US urban living hasn't existed in any meaningful way for 50 years - and 6 months into rebuilding it one of the corporate pioneers is already taking the arrows.

[soonerguru]

One of the biggest problems with the CityTarget concept is Wall Street. The concept was launched in early 2012 and by mid-2012 the Wall Street analyst were already calling it a failure and of course, we know what happens to companies who don't increase their stock value every quarter. Outside a few cities in the US urban living hasn't existed in any meaningful way for 50 years - and 6 months into rebuilding it one of the corporate pioneers is already taking the arrows.

Who gives an F what these flipping vampires think?

[Just the facts]

One of the biggest problems with the CityTarget concept is Wall Street. The concept was launched in early 2012 and by mid-2012 the Wall Street analyst were already calling it a failure and of course, we know what happens to companies who don't increase their stock value every quarter. Outside a few cities in the US urban living hasn't existed in any meaningful way for 50 years - and 6 months into rebuilding it one of the corporate pioneers is already taking the arrows.

Who gives an F what these flipping vampires think?

I share your disdain - but what can you do when companies sell their souls to a master that measures success and failure in nano-seconds. Look at our very own Chesapeake - 75% of the new CEO's income is tied directly to the stock price.

Couple that kind of corporate mentality with Oklahoma's liquor distribution laws and in the world of corporate grocery shopping Oklahoma is lucky to have a place to even buy groceries. Why should a national company build better stores in Oklahoma when they can spend that same money in other states and make more money off it? Oklahoma is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. If you want better grocery stores, then allow the grocery chains to earn a higher return buy selling higher margin products. You guys would wet your pants if you could shop at even an average Publix we enjoy here in Florida.

[bchris02]

I share your disdain - but what can you do when companies sell their souls to a master that measures success and failure in nano-seconds. Look at our very own Chesapeake - 75% of the new CEO's income is tied directly to the stock price.

Couple that kind of corporate mentality with Oklahoma's liquor distribution laws and in the world of corporate grocery shopping Oklahoma is lucky to have a place to even buy groceries. Why should a national company build better stores in Oklahoma when they can spend that same money in other states and make more money off it? Oklahoma is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. If you want better grocery stores, then allow the grocery chains to earn a higher return buy selling higher margin products. You guys would wet your pants if you could shop at even an average Publix we enjoy here in Florida.

Wal-Mart is the only national chain in OKC. Whole Foods and Sprouts are specialty so they don't count. For regular shopping, Albertson's was the last one left and Wal-Mart ran it out of town back in 2007. Liquor isn't the only reason grocery shopping in OKC is so dismal. It's because where else has Wal-Mart built such a high concentration of Supercenters and Neighborhood Markets? Others simply cannot compete. In addition, Tulsa has Reasor's and Fresh Market and they are under the same liquor laws as OKC.

[GaryOKC6]

Wal-Mart is not the cheapest by far. I live by the Belle Isle Wal-Mart and drive to buy for Less to buy groceries. I am a very careful grocery shopper and know the prices of the items that I buy most. When I am in Wal-Mart I notice that they are definitely higher.

[warreng88]

I am curious what is the hold up on Braum's putting in one of their Fresh Market concepts in OKC around the DT/Midtown area. Their farm is in Tuttle and I would think a basic selection of bread, milk, eggs, cheese, meat, fruits, vegetables, not to mention ice cream and all the other stuff they offer would be a slam dunk.

[BoulderSooner]

i think that they have a plan to replace their 16th and classen store

[Pete]

i think that they have a plan to replace their 16th and classen store

Yes, they purchased land to the west of that site and will at some point rebuild with their new concept. And I'm sure they feel they are serving downtown and Midtown through that location.

Same can be said of the Safeway at 18th & Classen. That IS an urban grocery store and while not great, people tend to dismiss it.

[Buffalo Bill]

Yes, they purchased land to the west of that site and will at some point rebuild with their new concept. And I'm sure they feel they are serving downtown and Midtown through that location.

Same can be said of the Safeway at 18th & Classen. That IS an urban grocery store and while not great, people tend to dismiss it.

Pete, you're showing your age.

I swear, it took me 5 years to stop calling that place Safeway.

[OKCisOK4me]

Pete, you're showing your age.

I swear, it took me 5 years to stop calling that place Safeway.

Safeway's still exist out west...

[adaniel]

Yes, they purchased land to the west of that site and will at some point rebuild with their new concept. And I'm sure they feel they are serving downtown and Midtown through that location.

Same can be said of the Safeway at 18th & Classen. That IS an urban grocery store and while not great, people tend to dismiss it.

The Homeland (formerly Safeway) could really be a decent store. Why they chose to not fix it up is beyond me. It can be borderline depressing to go there sometimes.

Its going to be a while before there are enough rooftops to support any sort of full scale grocery store downtown, which is usually about 10K households. At last check, we were slightly more than halfway there when including Heritage Hills and Mesta Park.

Until then, I am really trying to support Native Roots. Its not practical for basic everyday needs, but its very good for meats and veggies.

[GaryOKC6]

The Homeland (formerly Safeway) could really be a decent store. Why they chose to not fix it up is beyond me. It can be borderline depressing to go there sometimes.

Its going to be a while before there are enough rooftops to support any sort of full scale grocery store downtown, which is usually about 10K households. At last check, we were slightly more than halfway there when including Heritage Hills and Mesta Park.

Until then, I am really trying to support Native Roots. Its not practical for basic everyday needs, but its very good for meats and veggies.

Homeland simply will not put any money into their stores. They have some nice stores but they are former Albertsons stores that were already nice when they bought them. I used to sell equipment to homeland and they were always looking for used stuff.

[bchris02]

Homeland simply will not put any money into their stores. They have some nice stores but they are former Albertsons stores that were already nice when they bought them. I used to sell equipment to homeland and they were always looking for used stuff.

I am not sure that is completely the case. They are just very selective on the stores the put money into and they neglect the rest of them. Both Edmond locations are pretty nice. One was a former Albertson's and the other was not. I sometimes wish though a larger chain would buy up Homeland and actually put money into the currently neglected stores.

[metro]

Target has a new "Citi" concept, I emailed them the other day to get OKC on the list. Not very likely I'm sure, but at least it gets OKC's name out there for interest.

[Plutonic Panda]

Target has a new "Citi" concept, I emailed them the other day to get OKC on the list. Not very likely I'm sure, but at least it gets OKC's name out there for interest.

I'll email them as well. Do they have a specific email to reach at for the Citi stores or just whatever I find?