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Thread: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

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Achilleslastand Open Carry, law student owns... 02-24-2013, 01:16 PM
kevinpate Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 01:49 PM
kelroy55 Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 02:24 PM
kelroy55 Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 02:27 PM
BoulderSooner Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 04:35 PM
kelroy55 Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 04:37 PM
Stew Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 05:13 PM
Stew Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 05:34 PM
kelroy55 Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 05:54 PM
Stew Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 05:57 PM
BoulderSooner Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 06:00 PM
kelroy55 Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 06:26 PM
WilliamTell Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 06:35 PM
zookeeper Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-24-2013, 09:05 PM
RadicalModerate Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 08:04 AM
BBatesokc Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 09:02 AM
mkjeeves Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 09:03 AM
BBatesokc Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 09:06 AM
BoulderSooner Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 09:11 AM
BBatesokc Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 09:18 AM
kevinpate Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 09:48 AM
BBatesokc Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 10:04 AM
mkjeeves Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 09:12 AM
kelroy55 Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 09:53 AM
kevinpate Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 09:57 AM
kelroy55 Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 10:06 AM
BoulderSooner Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 10:15 AM
kelroy55 Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 10:37 AM
mkjeeves Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 10:00 AM
RadicalModerate Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 10:19 AM
Of Sound Mind Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 10:23 AM
RadicalModerate Re: Open Carry, law student... 02-25-2013, 10:44 AM
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  1. #1

    Default Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .


  2. #2

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .


  3. #3

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    ooops double post

  4. #4

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Wasn't this a couple years ago? So people report somebody is walking around with a gun and the LEO stops the person in question. It sounded like the LEO was respectful and the young kid was being a smart-ass.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Wasn't this a couple years ago? So people report somebody is walking around with a gun and the LEO stops the person in question. It sounded like the LEO was respectful and the young kid was being a smart-ass.
    How so? He was stopped for no reason and he acted respectful

  6. #6

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    How so? He was stopped for no reason and he acted respectful
    He was stopped because people reported a person walking around with a gun. Are you suggesting the LEO not investigate?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    He was stopped because people reported a person walking around with a gun. Are you suggesting the LEO not investigate?
    Cops should investigate "crime" and not neighborhood hysteria. Where open carry is legal then the person carrying shouldn't be harassed by law enforcement for simply carrying unless there is probable cause the person is committing a crime. Obviously the cops in this stop agree since they let the guy walk without incident.

    Police are hired to protect our rights not to harass us for exercising those rights.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by sidburgess View Post
    Almost there. Local police are also hired to provide basic public safety. Something that puts them directly interested with people walking around openly carrying a weapon.

    It's not illegal to open carry and the police have no business harassing someone just because they are.

    If someone is walking down the street minding their own business should the police be able to stop that person and ask to see their ID?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by sidburgess View Post
    Almost there. Local police are also hired to provide basic public safety...
    I agree totally. Still A person walking the street open carrying where it's legal should be assumed to be doing so legally unless there's a legitimate cause to think otherwise. Ya know the supreme court thing about the assumption of innocence in the absence of contrary evidence. I can't see how somebody obeying the law can be construed as contrary evidence therefore it should not be seen as a threat to the public safety that a cop needs to investigate.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by sidburgess View Post
    Almost there. Local police are also hired to provide basic public safety. Something that puts them directly interested with people walking around openly carrying a weapon.
    Got to disagree with you on this one. Open carry is as legal as eating a sandwich in Oklahoma. As long as the weapon is carried properly (holstered, and not in a banned area) you should not be detained, questioned, etc. by law enforcement. Instead, the officer should inform the citizen who called the police of the points of the law.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    I don't consider a report of a man with a gun to be irrational however reporting a black person in a white neighborhood is not only irrational but it's bigoted and ignorant.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    I don't consider a report of a man with a gun to be irrational however reporting a black person in a white neighborhood is not only irrational but it's bigoted and ignorant.
    And reporting an open carry where it's legal to do so is irrational and ignorant.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    I don't consider a report of a man with a gun to be irrational however reporting a black person in a white neighborhood is not only irrational but it's bigoted and ignorant.
    How about a repot of a man with a tennis racket. Or driving a car? The report was not that the man was waving a gun or acting crazy. He was wearing a gun. The LEO had nothing to investigate

  14. #14

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    We'll just have to agree to disagree.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    I'm not going to get too deep into this subject just because in other threads i've stated how against open carry I am even though i concealed carry most weekends...

    But why would any reasonable person ever find the need to openly carry a weapon in the day and age where we have random shootings, school shootings, etc. If all you want to protect yourself and your family why would you purposely draw all that attention to yourself?


    After all the recent events ---- white male walking in the mall with a weapon..


    A 5 second call is all it would take for a person to be surrounded by cops. Alot of white males have killed alot of people in recent months in seemingly similar situations.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    I'm not going to get too deep into this subject just because in other threads i've stated how against open carry I am even though i concealed carry most weekends...

    But why would any reasonable person ever find the need to openly carry a weapon in the day and age where we have random shootings, school shootings, etc. If all you want to protect yourself and your family why would you purposely draw all that attention to yourself?


    After all the recent events ---- white male walking in the mall with a weapon..


    A 5 second call is all it would take for a person to be surrounded by cops. Alot of white males have killed alot of people in recent months in seemingly similar situations.
    Yes, that's called profiling WT, I didn't think you supported that? Why the hang-up with white males? Black males kill people daily in cities all across the country in numbers far exceeding their percentage of the population. Just because the high profile events of several victims at once have been by white males, you are suggesting cops do what you claim to despise when it's the other way around, profiling! Hypocrisy. Damn those white males with guns, they've just flat out ruined so many big cities, huh?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    It looks like the law student owns the rights to the video, too . . . And apparently Youtube isn't ignorant of that fact.

  18. Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Actually after typing one line in my comment above, I had to give pause. Does anyone know for sure - as in a link - showing that Oklahoma has a 'stop and identify' legal requirement for just any schmoe walking in public? I've been told we do and told we don't. I know for certain, individuals on S. Robinson have been taken to the jail if they don't have an ID and they are identified via their fingerprints, checked for warrants and then released if they didn't have any wants or warrants. Because of that I assumed we did have such a requirement, but I've never actually read the statute.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    We need to define "stop". The leo has every right to come up to a person and ask them questions. They do not have the right to detain the person unless they have reasonable suspicion to believe they are committing a crime.

    So practically speaking in Oklahoma, if you are walking down the street and a cop comes up to you, by law you have to tell the officer you have a weapon and that you are a CC permit holder. And you have to show it to the LEO if they want to see it. There isn't a lot of other practical options other than trying to evade the officer, which could be very bad for you if they are in fact looking for someone matching your description and are investigating you for possibly having committed a crime.

  20. Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    We need to define "stop". The leo has every right to come up to a person and ask them questions. They do not have the right to detain the person unless they have reasonable suspicion to believe they are committing a crime.
    No idea what the legal definition of 'detain' is in Oklahoma - but I'm assuming many people's pre-conceived notion is not the reality. I'm guessing causing any person to give pause (even for a couple of seconds) without informing them they are free to go could be interpreted as being 'detained' (by a defense lawyer).

  21. #21

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    We need to define "stop". The leo has every right to come up to a person and ask them questions. They do not have the right to detain the person unless they have reasonable suspicion to believe they are committing a crime.

    So practically speaking in Oklahoma, if you are walking down the street and a cop comes up to you, by law you have to tell the officer you have a weapon and that you are a CC permit holder. And you have to show it to the LEO if they want to see it. There isn't a lot of other practical options other than trying to evade the officer, which could be very bad for you if they are in fact looking for someone matching your description and are investigating you for possibly having committed a crime.
    and the person has the right to not answer the questions (not specificly talking about CC)

  22. Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    and the person has the right to not answer the questions (not specificly talking about CC)
    Depends on the situation. You can be a law-abiding potential witness to a crime and forcibly detained as a material witness if you refuse to talk.

    Also, 'reasonable suspicion' of a crime being committed is not so black and white.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by BBatesokc View Post
    Depends on the situation. You can be a law-abiding potential witness to a crime and forcibly detained as a material witness if you refuse to talk.

    Also, 'reasonable suspicion' of a crime being committed is not so black and white.
    Couple quick points before I get back to what I am breaking from.

    Whether someone is detained is based on whether or not a reasonable person would feel they are free to go under the circumstances.

    Best as I recall, we don't have a generic stop and produce id law in OK,

    reasonable suspicion is definitely shades of fuzzt frayed gray rather than black/white.

    Oh, and RM,

  24. Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinpate View Post
    Couple quick points before I get back to what I am breaking from.

    Whether someone is detained is based on whether or not a reasonable person would feel they are free to go under the circumstances.

    Best as I recall, we don't have a generic stop and produce id law in OK,

    reasonable suspicion is definitely shades of fuzzt frayed gray rather than black/white.

    Oh, and RM,
    July 2007 I asked "am I free to go" and offered to make myself available (with my attorney) the next afternoon and I was promptly handcuffed and sat in the back of a patrol car (windows up, air off) for over an hour as a 'material witness' to, of all things, an arrest of a third party - Donald Pete arrest.

    I've been placed in 'investigative detention' numerous times. Which simply means I have to stand or sit there until they say I can go. Investigative detention is an extremely gray area and can be applied virtually any time a officer is dispatched.

    Problem is, you take the "I don't' have to talk to you stance" and walk away and you better know every pedestrian statute (and follow them), because they often do and will use them against you for your perceived insolence - like 'walking the wrong way on the side of the road', crossing the street on the wrong side of a vehicle, etc., etc.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Open Carry, law student owns cop who is ignorant to the law .

    Not if they have a gun. They have to tell the officer when they come in contact with the leo. They can refuse to answer other questions.

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