OKC Light Rail System?

[Plutonic Panda]

Surprised there is not a thread on this. I looked over the 7 pages and couldn't find a thread dedicated to a light rail for the greater OKC area. Anyways I came across this article from The Edmond Sun(of all places ) and thought I'd pass it along.

Group looks at light rail for metro » Local News » The Edmond Sun

[ljbab728]

PluPan, light rail has been discussed hear often but there has never been a thread devoted to just light rail.

[MDot]

PluPan, light rail has been discussed hear often but there has never been a thread devoted to just light rail.

PluPan..hmm... It works. You just got your first nickname, Plutonic Panda.

[metro]

Surprised there is not a thread on this. I looked over the 7 pages and couldn't find a thread dedicated to a light rail for the greater OKC area. Anyways I came across this article from The Edmond Sun(of all places ) and thought I'd pass it along.

Group looks at light rail for metro » Local News » The Edmond Sun

PluPan, light rail has been discussed hear often but there has never been a thread devoted to just light rail.

Sure there has, it's just been a few years:

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-othe...l-options.html

http://www.okctalk.com/norman/29220-...-system-3.html

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...-layout-2.html

[Snowman]

From ACOGs prior studies commuter rail seems more likely than light rail

[BoulderSooner]

From ACOGs prior studies commuter rail seems more likely than light rail

almost no chance for light rail to any of the 3 cities ... as you said they would almost for sure be Commuter rail ..

[Just the facts]

There still seems to be a lot of confussion between all the different types of rails systems so when I hear people say light rail, commuter rail, etc... I just translate it into 'rail based transit'. Heck, most people think Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) is just a regular non-stop bus with the ability to change the traffic lights.

For example - from the article:

Salt Lake City’s Front Runner light rail system

but from the Frontrunner website

In April 2008, UTA introduced the state’s first commuter rail line, FrontRunner

Not a big deal, I'm just saying. Anyhow, it is great that this effort is being published in the suburbs. I predict it is only a matter of time before Yukon asks why they are being left out. They probably feel like second class citizens because they have to keep driving cars.

[Just the facts]

BTW - anyone notice how far behind OKC is in getting commuter rail. It is popping up in multiple cities.

Beside the well know large cities Austin, Nashville, Salt Lakes City, and Albuquerque have commuter rail in operation now.

[LakeEffect]

BTW - anyone notice how far behind OKC is in getting commuter rail. It is popping up in multiple cities.

Beside the well know large cities Austin, Nashville, Salt Lakes City, and Albuquerque have commuter rail in operation now.

ACOG and its consultant are gearing up and working on their commuter corridor analysis right now. It's moving, just quieter because it's ACOG.

[Hutch]

Please allow me to explain where this article originated and clear up some of the confusion created by it.

Back in 2009, ACOG hosted the Regional Transit Dialogue, which was a year and a half long series of meetings meant to begin a discussion between the various metro area cities and other stakeholders about the idea of developing a regional transit system. The first RTD was very successful and produced some good preliminary recommendations on land use planning, governance, finance and other issues related to developing a regional transit system. When that series of meeting ended, it was anticipated that there would be a follow-up series at some point in the future to further refine those ideas and begin to take a serious look at actually implementing development of a system.

Fast forward to October 31st, 2012, the beginning of the Regional Transit Dialogue II series. On that date, the RTD II Steering Committee met at ACOG to kick-off what will be another year and a half long series of meetings aimed at developing serious recommendations for implementing a regional transit system. In addition to that task, the Steering Committee is also serving as an Oversight Committee for AGOG's new $1.25 million "Commuter Rail Corridor Analysis" being conducted by URS Corporation, an internationally recongized rail transit consulting firm. The approximate 30-member Steering Committee is made up of City officials from OKC, Edmond, Norman and Midwest City, Chamber of Commerce representatives, business leaders, County officials, and other stakeholders.

This past Wednesday, January 23rd, the second meeting of the Steering Committe took place. I serve on the Steering Committee as a representative for OnTrac, and one item on the agenda was a presentation that I gave providing an overview on rail transit systems, including economic development, fiscal impacts, intermodal systems, light rail, commuter rail, intermodal hubs and a look at Oklahoma City's efforts to move toward developing rail transit.

When those in the room introduced themselves, one of the guests identifiied himself as a reporter with the Edmond Sun. So the story that appeared this morning is a result of his attendance of Wednesday's meeting.

While overall the article gets quite a bit right, it also gets a number things wrong, beginning unfortunately with the headline. Here's a list of the major errors:

1) The headline of the article says “Group looks at light rail for metro”, which is NOT correct. My presentation specifically addressed the fact that we are looking at Commuter Rail as the most likely option for the metro and not Light Rail. Commuter Rail was identified in the 2005 Fixed Guideway Study as the best rail mode for Oklahoma City. The new Commuter Rail Corridor Analysis by URS will advance us further with recommendations on station locations, trackage improvements, cost analysis and other important considerations. Due to the extreme cost differences between developing Light Rail versus Commuter Rail, it’s very important that the public not be confused on the matter. To build a Light Rail system between Edmond, Oklahoma City and Norman would cost $2-3 billion dollars, whereas a Commuter Rail system would cost only $200-300 million. What is really frustrating is that during my presentation I actually discussed how many people don't understand the difference between Light Rail and Commuter Rail and went through several slides explaining the difference, as well as clearly spelling out that what we are considering for the OKC metro is Commuter Rail.

2) The article correctly states that the DART system is estimated to generate $128 million in additional annual state and local tax revenues. However, the reported $4.5 million in property values increases is completely in error. The number is acutally $4.5 BILLION.

3) The article incorrectly states that the Salt Lake City Frontrunner is Light Rail, when in fact it is actually Commuter Rail. There were several slides in the presentation illustrating Salt Lake City's rail transit system, and the Frontrunner was specifically shown and discussed as an example of successful Commuter Rail service.

4) Finally, I do not work for ACOG and am not a representative of ACOG. I am an appointed citizen member of the RTD II Steering Committee.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

I assume the rail transit presentation that I gave will be available for viewing at some point on ACOG's website. Until then, I will try to load it to a cloud and provide a link for those who would like to review the information.

[LakeEffect]

Fast forward to October 31st, 2012, the beginning of the Regional Transit Dialogue II series. On that date, the RTD II Steering Committee met at ACOG to kick-off what will be another year and a half long series of meetings aimed at developing serious recommendations for implementing a regional transit system. In addition to that task, the Steering Committee is also serving as an Oversight Committee for AGOG's new $1.25 million "Commuter Rail Corridor Analysis" being conducted by URS Corporation, an internationally recognized rail transit consulting firm. The approximate 30-member Steering Committee is made up of City officials from OKC, Edmond, Norman and Midwest City, Chamber of Commerce representatives, business leaders, County officials, and other stakeholders.

I'll add that EPS (Economic & Planning Systems), a planning firm, is on the consultant team as well, and are very well respected. Additionally, Guernsey is the local support for URS and will do much of the heavy lifting locally, which should add a good element to the overall consulting team.

[Just the facts]

On New Mexico's Rail Runner you can go round trip from downtown Albuquerque to Santa Fe for $10. The trip is 94 miles.

[Just the facts]

Thanks Hutch. I know this is an 'unknow' at this time, but when do you think the first train might leave the station. The only reason I ask is that OKC has already fallen behind peer cities in the implementation of regional rail. Their systems are up and running and we are still talking about it.

[Hutch]

Thanks Hutch. I know this is an 'unknow' at this time, but when do you think the first train might leave the station. The only reason I ask is that OKC has already fallen behind peer cities in the implementation of regional rail. Their systems are up and running and we are still talking about it.

If you watch the presentation and following discussion from the Wednesday meeting, you'll get a good idea of the timeframes involved in getting a system in operation. You'll also see some good information addressing your peer city comment.

[OKCisOK4me]

Thanks Hutch. I know this is an 'unknow' at this time, but when do you think the first train might leave the station. The only reason I ask is that OKC has already fallen behind peer cities in the implementation of regional rail. Their systems are up and running and we are still talking about it.

I know I'm not Hutch, but I believe the Sacramento Kings will be sitting pretty in Seattle for 5+ years before our first commuter train leaves.

[Hutch]

For those who are interested, ACOG is videoing the RTD II meetings and those are being posted to ACOG's YouTube sight. You can view the first two meetings in their entirety, including the OnTrac rail transit presentation from Wednesday, at:

ACOG RTD II Meeting Videos

There are several video segments that cover the full meeting.

[OKVision4U]

For those who are interested, ACOG is videoing the RTD II meetings and those are being posted to ACOG's YouTube sight. You can view the first two meetings in their entirety, including the OnTrac rail transit presentation from Wednesday, at:

ACOG RTD II Meeting Videos

There are several video segments that cover the full meeting.

Why is the budget for Light Rail in Orlando @ $20 mil p/mile ? ...the ACOG numbers are so exaggerated?

[SouthsideSooner]

Why is the budget for Light Rail in Orlando @ $20 mil p/mile ? ...the ACOG numbers are so exaggerated?

The Orlando trains will be commuter rail, not light rail...similar to whats currently being discussed here from Edmond to Norman.

Florida voters rejected a light rail system from Orlando to Tampa even though the Feds were putting up 2.4 billion dollars towards the cost.

[OKVision4U]

The Orlando trains will be commuter rail, not light rail...similar to whats currently being discussed here from Edmond to Norman.

Florida voters rejected a light rail system from Orlando to Tampa even though the Feds were putting up 2.4 billion dollars towards the cost.

Not so fast my friend... This is not accurate.

Orlando is putting the LIGHT RAIL ( not the large Diesel Engine Commuter Rail ...they call this "commuter rail", but think of it as a Heavy Amtrak Trains).

Houston has the LIGHT RAIL. ....I used it a few weeks ago to get to a convention. A very nice clean system.

[ou48A]

If they want to attract the average commuter who has a good job and who is very busy speed of service will be most critical…. !
After that its frequency, capacity, locations of stations and buses to meet nearly every train.

[Just the facts]

COMET isn't bad but I still prefer GOCART (Greater Oklahoma City Area Rail Transit).

[BoulderSooner]

COMET isn't bad but I still prefer GOCART (Greater Oklahoma City Area Rail Transit).

hopefully COMET will include more than just rail

[Just the facts]

hopefully COMET will include more than just rail

That is easy to fix. GOCART - Greater Oklahoma City Area Rapid Transit. Or we can leave mode and speed out of it all together and have Greater Oklahoma City Area Regional Transit. But like I said, COMET is good also.

[Just the facts]

You know, it gets a little frustrating to watch videos like that and hear local elected leadership acknowledge how adding lanes of high speed traffic only makes traffic worse, and then they still support things like Oklahoma City Boulevard. The disconnect leaves me shaking my head.

[BoulderSooner]

You know, it gets a little frustrating to watch videos like that and hear local elected leadership acknowledge how adding lanes of high speed traffic only makes traffic worse, and then they still support things like Oklahoma City Boulevard. The disconnect leaves me shaking my head.

okc BLVD will not be high speed