Putnam City Schools to vote on purchasing 10,000 iPads

[Plutonic Panda]

Wowzers..... I don't really know to say. I think it would be cool lending out iPads for students, but would they really be used for educational purposes? Also 6$ mil. is a lot of money for iPads. I don't really have an opinion on this one. ^_^

[Midtowner]

Wowzers..... I don't really know to say. I think it would be cool lending out iPads for students, but would they really be used for educational purposes? Also 6$ mil. is a lot of money for iPads. I don't really have an opinion on this one. ^_^

If the kids can keep them, they could be highly viable for the purpose of replacing paper textbooks.

[Plutonic Panda]

If the kids can keep them, they could be highly viable for the purpose of replacing paper textbooks.

Yeah that what I was thinking too. They could make cost in the long run. But, I would think they should require anyone who get one to purchase their own protective case for the tablet.

[onthestrip]

It said it would provide enough iPads to have 1 for every 1.9 students.

[BBatesokc]

I think its the future and regardless of opinions that is the direction things are going. Personally, I love the idea. Unfortunately the reality is that teenagers have a hard enough time keeping up with their keys, books, cells phones, etc. I did read the proposal, but I wonder how they will handle lost, stolen and broken iPads? Hopefully they all have large serial numbers on them so people don't get them confused. Also wonder if the kids will be able to instal their own apps/music or if they iPads will be restricted.

[kevinpate]

We pay teachers far below their value to society, but there are funds for ipads? Well, funds enough that 1.9 students can each share an ipad. So Susie can do homework on Mon and Wed and every other weekend, and Jonie can do homework on Tue, Thu, and every other weekend. And, in class they can just scrunch together at a desk to see the clips, articles, etc. that go along with a lesson. If if Susie's beau steps on the ipad on a date night, well, Jonie probably had a date the following night and wasn't planning on studying anyway.

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense ... as an example of how to botch a plan.

[metro]

We pay teachers far below their value to society, but there are funds for ipads? Well, funds enough that 1.9 students can each share an ipad. So Susie can do homework on Mon and Wed and every other weekend, and Jonie can do homework on Tue, Thu, and every other weekend. And, in class they can just scrunch together at a desk to see the clips, articles, etc. that go along with a lesson. If if Susie's beau steps on the ipad on a date night, well, Jonie probably had a date the following night and wasn't planning on studying anyway.

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense ... as an example of how to botch a plan.

Wouldn't be an issue as no one has named their kid Jonie or Susie since the 70's, hopefully they are out of high school by now. I kid, I kid.

[Martin]

We can pay teachers far below their value to society, but there are funds for ipads?

not to take away from your point, but i'd imagine this is funded by federal grant money rather than the district's budget. -M

[Jim Kyle]

not to take away from your point, but i'd imagine this is funded by federal grant money rather than the district's budget. -M

If that's the case, why have a bond election? It might be grant money in part, but the bond issue is definitely to raise local money. I'd be in favor of it, were it to go to the teachers and not the administrators, but to buy gadgets that are obsolete by the time they are shipped (as are all things digital, sadly), definitely not a good idea...

[onthestrip]

not to take away from your point, but i'd imagine this is funded by federal grant money rather than the district's budget. -M

It's a bond issue they will be voting on. It will raise someone property tax $36 for every $1000 they pay in property taxes.

[Martin]

oh... that's what i get for not reading up on this for myself. wow. technology for students is great and all but certainly there are better things that this money can be spent on, especially if it means an increase in property taxes. -M

[MadMonk]

I hope they have a method for mobile device management to keep track of those. Otherwise, I'm sure a lot will simply walk off, never to be seen again.

[dankrutka]

iPads can be a great tool, but a lot of districts buy them without even knowing what do with them. You have to have great training. I think iPads are a bit of a fad and small computers would be a better buy. There are so many things that iPads don't do...

[BBatesokc]

I'm thinking they might could better spend our tax dollars with something cheaper like the Kindle.

[Pete]

Keep in mind Apple typically gives massive discounts for schools, which is why you see Macs in almost every educational computer lab, from elementary through graduate schools.

There are already 2,600 iPads in use by the district and there are far more education apps and publications for the iPad than any other tablet.

Also, apps for iPad are pretty tightly controlled, so that's a good screening mechanism right out of the gate.


I'm sure they've thought through the maintenance/repair/loss issues, as they would be far from the first school to issue iPads or computers to the majority of their students.

I think it's really an ambitious and forward-thinking plan and I have no doubt it would be a awesome teaching aid, and not just for electronic textbooks.


It's way, way past time to revolutionize the centuries old paradigm of a single adult standing in front of a class of 20-40 kids monologging. The educational system -- due to it's completely insular nature -- has been way too slow to change; arguably the most lagging large business sector in the world.

[SoonerDave]

This is a public perception move more than anything, IMHO.

Public perception: "Ooh, gee whiz, they're getting iPads, they're high-tech, they're cutting-edge. They made the news!"

Reality: About 70-90% of the books needed aren't available in an electronic format consumable on an iPad or any other electronic format. Teachers are still absurdly underpaid for the expectations given them, or are expected to overcome the inertia from absentee parents that don't realize parent is a verb, or to overcome the broken down walls, windows, doors, fixtures, desks, air conditioners, heaters, and buildings that have gone untouched for months or years.

But they'll have iPads!

Sorry, I"m going to stop here, because if I don't, I'm just going to go into serious rant mode. And, no, this isn't even close to it. This is just more infuriation handed down to our children by mindless and clueless school bureaucrats because it looks cool, it seems educational, and is coupled with the perception of the availability of perpetual subsidy by the taxpayer.

[BoulderSooner]

sorry but the idea that teachers are absurdly underpaid simply is not true ..

[SoonerDave]

sorry but the idea that teachers are absurdly underpaid simply is not true ..

Boulder, unless you have some first-hand knowledge of my wife's paycheck combined with the hours she puts in, you have no clue what you're talking about.

[BoulderSooner]

Boulder, unless you have some first-hand knowledge of my wife's paycheck combined with the hours she puts in, you have no clue what you're talking about.

she is not absurdly underpaid based on the hours she is REQUIRED to work in a year compared to any other job with comparable educational requirements

[SoonerDave]

she is not absurdly underpaid based on the hours she is REQUIRED to work in a year compared to any other job with comparable educational requirements

Define "required." If you limit your answer to the clock hours on the contract, you are being disingenuously naive. Please read my response to Pete on perceptions versus reality.

And, again, you really have no clue what you're talking about, Boulder. You really, really don't.

[Pete]

GOOD teachers are underpaid, BAD and average teachers are way over-paid and over-protected.

The teachers unions will not allow performance based incentives, so this is the system we have. And spare us the "teaching isn't like making widgets" argument, because virtually all job-related performance is evaluated pretty subjectively (we ARE a service-based economy, after all) and that process hasn't exactly held back U.S. business and industry.

In other words, teachers only have themselves to blame for their pay scales yet they want to throw that up as an obstacle whenever innovation or reform is proposed. Of course you never hear about how they are largely protected by tenure and receive way more in pension than almost anyone in private industry.

I also am tired of the "work so many hours" mantra. What motivated professional doesn't put in 10+ hours a day and take their work home with them?


I have tremendous respect for the good teachers out there but collectively, there are too many that hold education back through the constant drumbeat of rhetoric.

[ewoodard70]

Pete;
I would like to hear what you would base a teacher's performance incentive on. I would also like to know what you think a teacher's benefit package and pension plan actually is. I am just curious as to what you are basing your statements on.

[Pete]

A teacher's performance could be easily evaluated by a principal, department head, committee of peers... The same ways all other jobs are usually evaluated. And just like any other business, those that receive the best evaluations get bigger raises and those who aren't pulling their weight are put on notice and then terminated if there isn't significant improvement. Again, pretty standard operating procedure in any other business (save some government jobs).


As far as benefits and pensions, I am merely comparing what the teachers I know receive in these areas as opposed to what others typically receive in the same pay class. Teachers still receive good health insurance and pensions... The latter is almost non-existent in private industry these days and the former is increasingly rare.

Teachers can leave every day at 2 or 3PM if they choose, get tons of paid holiday leave (Christmas, spring break, fall break, etc.) plus every single summer off where they can either teach summer school or get another job for more income -- or merely just take months off every single year.

They are also routinely given automatic pay raises for completing advanced degrees; usually protected by tenure, etc.


I'm not saying teaching is some sort of easy street, but there are lots of upsides that never get spoken about because ALL you ever hear about is how they are woefully underpaid.

BTW, the average teacher in Oklahoma is paid around $45K in salary for 9 months of work, and benefits are year-round. Many teachers make well more than this and supplement their income in many other ways. It's certainly not fantastic pay but it's not horrible either.

[ewoodard70]

A teacher's performance could be easily evaluated by a principal, department head, committee of peers... The same ways all other jobs are usually evaluated. And just like any other business, those that receive the best evaluations get bigger raises and those who aren't pulling their weight are put on notice and then terminated if there isn't significant improvement. Again, pretty standard operating procedure in any other business (save some government jobs).


As far as benefits and pensions, I am merely comparing what the teachers I know receive in these areas as opposed to what others typically receive in the same pay class. Teachers still receive good health insurance and pensions... The latter is almost non-existent in private industry these days and the former is increasingly rare.

Teachers can leave every day at 2 or 3PM if they choose, get tons of paid holiday leave (Christmas, spring break, fall break, etc.) plus every single summer off where they can either teach summer school or get another job for more income -- or merely just take months off every single year.

They are also routinely given automatic pay raises for completing advanced degrees; usually protected by tenure, etc.


I'm not saying teaching is some sort of easy street, but there are lots of upsides that never get spoken about because ALL you ever hear about is how they are woefully underpaid.

BTW, the average teacher in Oklahoma is paid around $45K in salary for 9 months of work, and benefits are year-round. Many teachers make well more than this and supplement their income in many other ways. It's certainly not fantastic pay but it's not horrible either.

Teachers have always been evaluated by building administrators. These evaluations and recommendations are then sent to the local school board and the board then decides to retain or not. These evaluations are also placed on our personnel files. What I want to ask you is what criteria would you use to determine who gets raises and who doesn't?

The tenure issue is about cause. The administrations has to show cause to fire a tenured teacher, and it is not as hard as it appears. All that has to be done is documentation that a tenured teacher is not doing the work expected of them. They will be placed on a Plan of Improvement and give a set amount of time (not sure how long) to show the required improvement. Our state legislature removed the trial aspect of this process to make it cheaper to fire a teacher. As a union teacher or not I should have the ability to stand up to administrators that I feel is not working in the best interests of the school/community without the fear of being fired for it.

I understand that our perks looks good those not involved with public schools, and I hear people say all the time they don't think they could do this job no matter the pay. So why are so many blaming teachers for the supposed failure of our schools? Every teacher I know works hard to teach the kids what the state says they must teach, even the kids that are not interested in learning that material. I understand that as teachers and as a union we have not done a very good job of elaborating what goes on in the classroom, but believe me that there are not as many bad teachers as the general public thinks.

I appreciate the dialogue here and would like to thank you for the politeness of your opinion, as I have dealt with many antagonistic types when dealing with this topic.

p.s. I'll try to do a little research on teacher retirement and get back with you.

[NoOkie]

A teacher's performance could be easily evaluated by a principal, department head, committee of peers... The same ways all other jobs are usually evaluated. And just like any other business, those that receive the best evaluations get bigger raises and those who aren't pulling their weight are put on notice and then terminated if there isn't significant improvement. Again, pretty standard operating procedure in any other business (save some government jobs).

My concern with this is that there seems to be a move towards metrics-based assessments in our school systems. With all the focus on testing, I have concerns that teachers' performance reviews in this situation would be based on their students test scores as opposed to a fair supervisory and peer review.

While metrics can work for some types of jobs, I think it's a bad method for education. From talking to my step-sons and other parents, there seems to be a real focus on teaching the test and not actually educating our children. Standardized tests give numbers, statistics and charts that are easy to condense into reports for high level administrators. I imagine teachers would get sucked into the same scenario.