OKC Wish List Round 2

[mmonroe]

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=6950

I was reading this thread and got inspired, I encourage you to read through it and see who's wishes have come true.

Lets do this again, what would you wish to see in OKC?

[Spartan]

This week, I'd like to see the Hale Photo Bldg preserved and not torn down. That wish would need to be processed by the New Roof Fairy.

[Midtowner]

1) CHK to survive in some form where they might someday be able to re-expand back into their campus;

2) The Native American Cultural Center to be completed;

3) Downtown residential development to not be killed by developers who are pricing their best potential buyers out of the market.

[Larry OKC]

That all of the MAPS 3 projects be built:

1) On time

2) On budget

3) As promised

Oooops...oh well

[Pete]

I would merely like us to build and expand on the present foundation:

1. Complete all the MAPS 3 projects
2. Expand the street car to the Heath Sciences Center, the Capitol, and OCU
3. See at least a handful of the various urban districts reach critical mass (Deep Deuce is close but there are several others that need to follow)
4. Much more in the way of recreation, bike lanes, sidewalks, trails, etc.
5. Have OU develop into a truly great university (OKC and the state in general needs at least one excellent institution of higher learning)
6. See First National Center redeveloped in a sustainable and responsible way (really, the last big failure that remains in the CBD)
7. Complete and expand the ACCIM

All of this is completely doable and would help take OKC to the next level.

[Of Sound Mind]

Wish #1: Take a 24-month break from road construction so that, for once, we could enjoy leisurely drives to and from work (especially downtown), without dodging countless construction cones, detour signs and unfamiliar drivers trying to navigate their anxious way through ever-changing, never-clearly-delineated maze.

Wish #2: The above point notwithstanding, to go back a completely fulfill the original Project 180 vision so we don't end up with another half-assed effort after all this pain of construction downtown.

Wish #3: I'll steal this one from Midtowner's #3.

Wish #4: No street cars. Period. It's economically unsustainable and an unnecessary money pit that will show nothing but negative returns. I'd love for it to work here, but it's grossly incongruent with the Oklahoma City population and lifestyle.

[Spartan]

Wish #4: No street cars. Period. It's economically unsustainable and an unnecessary money pit that will show nothing but negative returns. I'd love for it to work here, but it's grossly incongruent with the Oklahoma City population and lifestyle.

2002 called and says we've had a little bit of downtown development since people were saying it wouldn't work. You have to be kidding me if you don't think downtown has at least reached critical mass in the last year or so capable of supporting the streetcar. It will open to record-breaking crowds that will exceed even my optimistic projections.

Or is the head firmly in the sand to the point where no matter what, streetcar will never work in OKC? That sounds like lose-lose to me. If you ask me, there is one project that we could easily can in order to throw another extra $250 million into the streetcar.

[Of Sound Mind]

2002 called and says we've had a little bit of downtown development since people were saying it wouldn't work. You have to be kidding me if you don't think downtown has at least reached critical mass in the last year or so capable of supporting the streetcar. It will open to record-breaking crowds that will exceed even my optimistic projections.

Or is the head firmly in the sand to the point where no matter what, streetcar will never work in OKC? That sounds like lose-lose to me. If you ask me, there is one project that we could easily can in order to throw another extra $250 million into the streetcar.

Perhaps your projecting with your "head-firmly-in-the-sand" comment. Would I like to see OKC have a streetcar system? Absolutely, if it's done right. That's the rub. A successful streetcar system is going to have to be extensive enough for people to want to utilize it as a viable means of transportation to major areas of interest. The MAPS 3 plan hardly fits that bill. And there's no funding plan in place for future expansion to make it a viable mode of transport for enough people to take it seriously.

My biggest issue is funding. What plan out there does not count on federal funds that may or may not be there? Does anyone really think that in the coming years, given the federal budget and debt issues, that federal funding for projects like these won't disappear as lawmakers try to figure out how to cut costs without trimming the right-left darlings of defense spending and entitlements? It will be a massive shame, disappointment and embarassment should the streetcar system be started only be left unfinished and ultimately impractical transportation option... and all the money invested from MAPS 3 and beyond will have been wasted when it could have be utilized elsewhere.

If I'm wrong, then everyone wins. If I'm right, everyone loses. I've been a pretty consistent advocate for OKC's renaissance these last couple decades. However, with the perpetual budget issues in our own state capital and the looming financial crisis in Washington, D.C., I'm wondering how everyone plans to fund this very expensive project sufficiently so that it provides a practical, useful and beneficial transportation alternative for enough people to make it economically viable. If that's head-in-the-sand thinking, then I think that phrase has been redefined.

One final thought... that $250 million project you're alluding to is for a revenue-generating (both in facility use fees as well as collateral sales tax revenues from surrounding businesses) project, and a project that's sorely needed if you've ever tried to find meeting space for any sizeable event in Oklahoma City. Right now, there is only one facility that can accommodate those large-event needs and trying to book space there can be quite the challenge with increasing numbers of conventions, conferences and special events booking space. Conversely, how long before the streetcar system would be revenue-neutral or even revenue-generating?

[Pete]

Wish #4: No street cars. Period. It's economically unsustainable and an unnecessary money pit that will show nothing but negative returns. I'd love for it to work here, but it's grossly incongruent with the Oklahoma City population and lifestyle.

Valid concerns but I would argue that project has more ability to change the OKC lifestyle than anything else.

The good news is the first phase is already funded and will be a good test for future expansion. I would bet good money it will be much more popular than most people would expect. I think there is a real hunger for this sort of thing that is hard to understand until something is in place.

[Of Sound Mind]

Valid concerns but I would argue that project has more ability to change the OKC lifestyle than anything else.

The good news is the first phase is already funded and will be a good test for future expansion. I would bet good money it will be much more popular than most people would expect. I think there is a real hunger for this sort of thing that is hard to understand until something is in place.

I'll be happy to take you up on that bet. I could always use some more poker money for my next trip to Vegas.

[bchris02]

Valid concerns but I would argue that project has more ability to change the OKC lifestyle than anything else.

The good news is the first phase is already funded and will be a good test for future expansion. I would bet good money it will be much more popular than most people would expect. I think there is a real hunger for this sort of thing that is hard to understand until something is in place.

Little Rock has streetcars and its smaller and more sprawled than OKC is. If it works there, there is no reason it couldn't work in OKC.

[Just the facts]

Valid concerns but I would argue that project has more ability to change the OKC lifestyle than anything else.

The good news is the first phase is already funded and will be a good test for future expansion. I would bet good money it will be much more popular than most people would expect. I think there is a real hunger for this sort of thing that is hard to understand until something is in place.

It is only some lines on a proposed route map and already 4 developments have cited it as reasons for redevelopment. If you look at cities around the country that have implemented rail (and it is a lot more cities than people are aware of), the TOD and TND has taken off big time. Even our own Tronox with their move to Stamford picked a location within walking distance of a rail station. In OKC they were out in the sticks. When given a choice, people and businesses will move next to the most economical form of transportation - and that is rail hands down and across the board. I've said it before but one lane of track can move the same capacity as 15 lanes of interstate. A train can carry 1 ton 450 miles on a single gallon of fuel.

[soonerliberal]

1) Large company(ies) either relocate from out of state or add a significant number of white collar, mid-high to high income/education jobs to the CBD.
2) Project 180 to be completed in its entirety.
3) TREES - lots more of them planted around the whole city, particularly along freeways, parks, major city streets, intersections, and entry points to the city.
4) Continued infill in the Health Sciences and Midtown areas (especially less fields and parking lots)
5) The streetcar developed and extended upon due to its success
6) Completion of the Native American Cultural Center

6.5) UNP in Norman to live up to its original promises

[Naptown12713]

I like most of the suggestions already noted. I would like to include on my wish list for OKC is a very well planned and user friendly development for the Seed Plant site. This site has the potential to be a game changer for the expanded downtown area.

[Spartan]

The LR-NLR heritage trolley also significantly exceeded ridership projections. The funny thing is that the FTA actually uses a very flawed ridership model that does not take into account any TOD, based entirely on existing circulation patterns. While this makes it harder than necessary for these projects to compete for funding even against the most stringent and objective of standards that we all know highway projects aren't held to, it also at least insures some exceeding of low expectations.

[1972ford]

I want disc golf courses around the river a course at overholser as well as hefner. No one goes to Woodson really for fear of being robbed or worse. Will Roger park lost what little it had going for it when they removed a ton of trees which leaves us with dolese. When I started playing golf about 10 years ago 2 hours was a long game now you are lucky to finish a game in 4.

I think I'll start a petition to the city maybe we can get the parks as part of the MAPS 3 using the contigency fund. looks like Sales tax revenues are exceeding projections anyway

[Larry OKC]

Good luck...those funds (contingency & positive projections) are probably already spoken for by projects that are expected to go way over budget.

[Spartan]

Good luck...those funds (contingency & positive projections) are probably already spoken for by projects that are expected to go way over budget.

Larry for the win, again.

[NoOkie]

1. Complete the trails master plan.
2. Stripe some bike lanes outside of downtown. Cycle tracks in some places would be sweet.
3. More trees. Everywhere. Trees are great.
4. Another major company in town, good all around.
5. An edmond-downtown-norman train and a tinker-Mustang train.
6. Speed up the I-44/235 and I-35/235 interchange projects. The timetables are absurdly long.

[Larry OKC]

Of Sound Mind: sending you a PM so as not to derail the thread.

[Of Sound Mind]

Of Sound Mind: sending you a PM so as not to derail the thread.

Got it and responded. Thanks for continuing the discussion in a respectful, rational and reasonable manner. I'm truly not anti-OKC growth and development; in fact, I'm quite the opposite. More so, though, I am FOR fiscally sound, realistic and practical solutions given our current local, national and global economic and budgetary environments. Nothing is more disappointing than an uncompleted and/or half-assed project that disappoints EVERYONE.

After visiting with Larry via PM, please allow me to revise my wish list, borrowing heavily from some of the excellent suggestions above.

1) Fulfill the original Project 180 vision in its entirety.

2) "Speed up the I-44/235 and I-35/235 interchange projects." ««« These are WAY overdue and VERY needed.

3) Make more streets around the entire city (and eventually metro) more pedestrian and bicycle friendly, including dedicated bike lanes where they can be safely added and are appropriate (especially downtown and around schools and college campuses).

4) "Complete the trails master plan."

5) "More trees. Everywhere. Trees are great." ««« VERY needed.

6) "Downtown residential development to not be killed by developers who are pricing their best potential buyers out of the market."

7) Hold our city and state leaders accountable for the proposals, projects and initiatives they try to sell us in that they deliver on EXACTLY what they promised and are REALISTIC on making accurate projects on the actual costs (potentially even over-estimating it to account for inflation and "unforeseen" variables) to complete the proposals AS ADVERTISED and not continually run in to over-budget quandaries that mean cut-back deliverables or increased taxation beyond what was agreed to. In other words, if you're going to show me fancy graphics to sell me on something, THAT better be what I get in the end. If private companies can do it, it's possible to get it done. Prime example: Devon.

[Larry OKC]

Got it and responded. ...After visiting with Larry via PM,

Never got the PM, if you have it and can send it again???

[1972ford]

Well if the city would be willing to allocate some of its parkland off overholser, the river, or hefner the disc golf community can raise the funds for baskets and concrete. it does not even matter if the land they allocate is fully wooded land is the only thing keeping the disc golf community from funding the cost of basket and concrete. it would cost around 10k for baskets and concrete and the city alreay owns the land this is something the city could provide its spraw with something to do.

I have honestly considered moving to Tulsa just so I can live in close proximity to some golf parks.

[BoulderSooner]

street car has between an 8-1 and 15-1 return on capital investment ... the CC can't touch that ..

and the street car will be expanded ... most likely in maps 4 ........ plus it will not be long until we have a Regional transit authority .. with commuter legs to norman/edmond/midwestcity/and at least to the airport west ...

[NoOkie]

street car has between an 8-1 and 15-1 return on capital investment ... the CC can't touch that ..

and the street car will be expanded ... most likely in maps 4 ........ plus it will not be long until we have a Regional transit authority .. with commuter legs to norman/edmond/midwestcity/and at least to the airport west ...

That's all well and good, but I really just want some damn bike lanes.

And the 235/44 interchange fix. I see that backed up all the time when I ride over the extension.