Larry Nichols Park

[krisb]

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2...2010018475.PDF

[pw405]

Hmmm... project 180? Fact check?

[UnFrSaKn]

Is this one of those links that doesn't work after a while?

[Doug Loudenback]

Probably. Many links at the Okc City website seem to be quite temporary, particularly concerning city council matters, in my experience. If one wants to save a file he/she sees there, the best policy is to save it to your computer while it is still there and then, if desired, uploaded it to your own more permanent server, and then link to that personally uploaded location. Otherwise, some files land up in la-la land, as far as internet locating purposes are concerned.

[Just the facts]

You can't copy a city link from your browser address bar, you have to right click on the document, go to properties, and copy that value. The link posted above is in the temporary internet files of krisb's computer.

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/agdocs....a&itemid=60730

They want to rename Bicentennial Park to Larry Nichols Park.

My personal opinion of Larry Nichols was pretty high at one time but is now dropping like a lead ballon. I can't believe that the justification for doing this is because he pays property taxes - that he directed to fix up the land around HIS building. What a piece of work. With the P180 funding shortage we now know why he insisted that his area get done first.

I am not a big fan of naming things after people anyhow.

[Steve]

Another morning when online reality, real reality are so, so, far apart...

[Just the facts]

Another morning when online reality, real reality are so, so, far apart...

What do you mean? It says right in the letter that justification is for funding Project 180. Project 180 is funed by property taxes that would otherwise go to the city at-large if the TIF districts didn't exist. Devon pre-paid these taxes for the express purpose that the money would go to fix up the area around Devon Tower. If the TIF didn't exist do you think Devon would have pre-paid their property tax?

[Rover]

Did Larry ask for the park to be renamed as part of the deal? I think not.

[Bellaboo]

I wish they had 5 parks downtown that they could name after people, if those folks were as influential in a positive manner as Mr Nichols.

[Rover]

Didnt they loan the money, not prepay?

Why some people continuosly hate on people who actually substantialy aid this city is beyond belief. Larry has been super generous with his time, money and leadership. Guess that makes him despicable.

[Just the facts]

Didnt they loan the money, not prepay?

Why some people continuosly hate on people who actually substantialy aid this city is beyond belief. Larry has been super generous with his time, money and leadership. Guess that makes him despicable.

That is correct - he will repay himself with interest from future taxes. I am not saying that makes him dispicable - I am saying that doesn't qualify him for "park naming" status. I hope this gets rejected - or withdrawn by Larry Nichols himself.

[Rover]

That is correct - he will repay himself with interest from future taxes. I am not saying that makes him dispicable - I am saying that doesn't qualify him for "park naming" status. I hope this gets rejected - or withdrawn by Larry Nichols himself.

As an emotional and rabid supporter of downtown you should be promoting Larry instead of denigrating him for all he has done in support of OKC and, in particular, downtown OKC. Who is doing more at this time for raising the visibility and viability of downtown than Devon and LN? Why the hate? Is it resentment or envy?

[Spartan]

Didnt they loan the money, not prepay?

Why some people continuosly hate on people who actually substantialy aid this city is beyond belief. Larry has been super generous with his time, money and leadership. Guess that makes him despicable.

So either you want to name CIVIC CENTER Park after Larry Nichols, or you think he is a despicable person?

Can we not just think he's a good guy but wish for the park to keep a civic-oriented name? I don't support naming parks after people, especially including the first name, and especially while they're still alive. That kind of standard belongs relegated to ag school stadiums...

[OSUFan]

So either you want to name CIVIC CENTER Park after Larry Nichols, or you think he is a despicable person?

Can we not just think he's a good guy but wish for the park to keep a civic-oriented name? I don't support naming parks after people, especially including the first name, and especially while they're still alive. That kind of standard belongs relegated to ag school stadiums...

Yeah, OU has much higher standards than hick ag schools. It is not like they have anything at OU that is named after anyone currently living.

[Larry OKC]

What do you mean? It says right in the letter that justification is for funding Project 180. Project 180 is funed by property taxes that would otherwise go to the city at-large if the TIF districts didn't exist. Devon pre-paid these taxes for the express purpose that the money would go to fix up the area around Devon Tower. If the TIF didn't exist do you think Devon would have pre-paid their property tax?

Didnt they loan the money, not prepay? ...

You are correct. They served as the bank and loaned the City the money (to be paid back with interest) from the TIF (that was carved out of an existing TIF, thus diverting the money yet once again). Folks keep erroneously state that they prepaid their taxes and that just isn't the case. This article seems to indicate they are delaying paying their taxes by 5 years...

(originally posted by metro http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...867#post188867)
OKC Council approves TIF district to support Devon project
by Brian Brus
The Journal Record
December 17, 2008

The tax increment finance district is projected to generate $175 million over its 25-year life. ...

Devon Chief Executive Larry Nichols had earlier told the council his company expects the city to provide public improvements to create an appropriate environment for a world headquarters. The company wants to build more than 1 million square feet of space on the northeast corner of Sheridan and Hudson avenues, just north of Myriad Gardens. To that end, city government must “fix up the neighborhood and help bring other businesses into Oklahoma City,” he said.

City staff said a TIF district is the only tool available to generate adequate revenue to support Devon’s preconditions. The district will tap only into ad valorem and construction sales tax revenues over its lifetime. Although Devon won’t generate ad valorem in the first five years of the plan, it will still pay about $20 million in city sales taxes during the construction phase.

Please understand this isn't a slam towards Devon or Mr. Nichols in any way. He and the company have done many great things for OKC. The facts are what they are. In this particular case, Devon gets what they wanted (improvements to the area making it worthy of a world headquarters); they delay their own taxes; they get paid interest on the money they are loaning to the City to do what they wanted done. It is a win-win-win for Devon. The City wins too (but it is borrowing the money twice, once thru the regular TIF process and then again through the Devon loan).

Speaking of the Devon agreement, it is often cited by the City as justification for why things can't be delayed etc (yet conveniently ignored at other times). Has anyone seen the Devon agreement? Seems like it should be public (even the Thunder lease(s) were made public)? What exactly does it say?


not connected with the above...

Yes it was. Archives show promoters of the name were insisting it had to be done in a hurry as part of the celebrations of the country's bicentennial year and their efforts to place monuments on the site, including a "bunker" that eventually became nothing more than a place for transients to piss, drink, sniff spray paint and "entertain" themselves. The bunker was removed and the monuments were re-set in their current configuration as part of a park makeover done a decade ago.

Interesting that the same urgency is being requested now in an earlier article of Steve's where they said it was because of the 75th anniversary and they needed to get the Civic Center park redesign done by then. As someone else pointed out, funny how these things sneak up on folks...LOL

And still not connected...
Am curious, of the long list of things named for people, how many of that list were named while the honoree was still alive and "active"? other than novelty alley renaming (Flaming Lips) and similar, I am agree that it should be an honor reserved for the retired or deceased. That way it isn't a flash in the pan type thing and someone's legacy has stood the test of time. How many know the people that these things are named for anyway?

[kevinpate]

... The policy requires the Park Commission to consider, in a public meeting, any written request to rename an existing facility and to require 30 days for public comment. This item constitutes the public hearing. Following the 30-day period, the Commission may recommend action on the request to the City Council.

Recommendation: Receive the Request.

In other words, if Joe Sixpack sent in a request to rename the park after His favorite Stripper from Valley Brook, it appears this same basic process would have to be followed under the city's naming policy.

Might be a tad early for any outrage.

[Rover]

Yes, we wouldnt want to name a park after someone who greatly helps the city over many years and is an outstanding citizen and business leader. Better to let them be anonomously resented anyway.

[kevinpate]

I know the name, not the man.
If the city wants to name something after him, fine and dandy.
I would prefer it not be Bicentennial Park, but that's just the simple view of a non-resident.

[king183]

What a complete non-issue. Are we seriously going to argue over Larry Nichols getting a park named after him?

[Bellaboo]

What a complete non-issue. Are we seriously going to argue over Larry Nichols getting a park named after him?

Kind of silly isn't it...

[Just the facts]

It is not just a park - it is the park between City Hall and the Civic Center.

However, let's just leave it at - opposition noted.

[BoulderSooner]

the reality is that most of the time TIF dollars go to help the project itself work ... devon could have requested all or all most all of the TIF money to go to the devon sight .IE building the garage/underground/utilities /anything else ...

devon instead requested that money to be used on entire CBD project 180 .. and that was a huge huge unpresidented deal doesn't devon indirectly benifit from p180 sure .. but so does the vast majority of OKC

[Bigrayok]

Maybe they can rename it after Garth Brooks?

Bigray in Ok

[Just the facts]

the reality is that most of the time TIF dollars go to help the project itself work ... devon could have requested all or all most all of the TIF money to go to the devon sight .IE building the garage/underground/utilities /anything else ...

devon instead requested that money to be used on entire CBD project 180 .. and that was a huge huge unpresidented deal doesn't devon indirectly benifit from p180 sure .. but so does the vast majority of OKC

I'm not arguing against TIF districts - I like them, but there was no way the City was going to vote for a TIF district specifically for the Devon Tower site. That decision was not up to Larry, it was up to the City Council. Project 180 is millions of dollar out of wack and will be years behind schedule - no one should be getting an honorable mention because of it. They need to be spreading around the blame, not the accolades.

Okay, that is my final word on the subject until after the vote.

[BoulderSooner]

I'm not arguing against TIF districts - I like them, but there was no way the City was going to vote for a TIF district specifically for the Devon Tower site. That decision was not up to Larry, it was up to the City Council. Project 180 is millions of dollar out of wack and will be years behind schedule - no one should be getting an honorable mention because of it. They need to be spreading around the blame, not the accolades.

Okay, that is my final word on the subject until after the vote.

the TIF district is ONLY the devon site .... the money is being spent all over down town .... the city would have approved it either way .. if was/is a project that is great for OKC