Able Commission: No New Bars in Bricktown??

[OklahomaNick]

Heard about a rumor that the Able Commission is not allowing new tenants to serve hard liquor in central Bricktown because of the ACM at UCO and the Able Commission’s proximity rule to schools and churches? What is law; 500 feet?

I heard that someone wanted to reopen Makers, but was rejected to serve hard liquor that close to the ACM. I guess beer only is acceptable. I know a few of these bars and resturants around town that only serve beer.

It is my understanding that current establishments are “grandfather claused” in, but anyone new will not be able to obtain a hard liquor license until some laws change.
More of a reason that Oklahoma needs more modern liquor laws; have not changed since Prohibition.

Midtowner??

[kevinpate]

Not mid, but 3.2 beer is, I think, still classified as non-intoxicating and if stronger drink is not in the mix, the rules are different. As for proximity, 500' or 1000' sounds about right.

[G.Walker]

There goes Bricktown...that's crazy...so much for upscale nightclub in Bricktown...

[OKCNDN]

Not mid, but 3.2 beer is, I think, still classified as non-intoxicating and if stronger drink is not in the mix, the rules are different. As for proximity, 500' or 1000' sounds about right.

3.2 beer is now considered intoxicating. The change was made way back in 1995. This is why Oklahoma now limits the time frame that beer can be purchased. No more around-the-clock beer sales.

[Pete]

The law is 300 feet from a public school.

However, ACM has been open since 2009 and there have been several new bars open in Bricktown since then, although I'm not sure any within the 300 foot range.


Even though there is such a statute, you can receive a variance. It's hard to imagine such a request being turned down given the unique location of the school.

[MikeOKC]

The law is 300 feet from a public school.

However, ACM has been open since 2009 and there have been several new bars open in Bricktown since then, although I'm not sure any within the 300 foot range.


Even though there is such a statute, you can receive a variance. It's hard to imagine such a request being turned down given the unique location of the school.

Yeah, I agree with Pete. It's not like this school was there and they decided to start building bars and clubs around it. It was a nightlife district they chose to move to. If it really prevented new clubs from opening it would be one of those "Only In America" type things I read in The Week magazine.

[BoulderSooner]

i have heard this is directly affecting moes dockside bar the new pizza place and the former location of othellos

[G.Walker]

if this holds, it will deter a lot of development from Bricktown...

[mcca7596]

The school law should only apply to public schools. That is crazy.

[kevinpate]

Thanks Pete. The distance is not an issue I've ever dealt with.
It shouldn't even be an issue for an institution like this, but I don't hold the same paranoia of demon rum that too many policy makers hold.

[Pete]

FYI, ACM@UCO is a public school.

I saw a case from the 90's where a bar owner tried to argue that OSU (and other universities) should not be included in the broad "public school" definition. But the court ruled the intent of the statute was to not disrupt education and worship and therefore the 300 foot limit does apply to public colleges.


As I stated before, this may be a case of simply having to go one extra step and apply for a variance. I would also expect ABLE to understand this is a unique situation.

[bluedogok]

FYI, ACM@UCO is a public school.

I saw a case from the 90's where a bar owner tried to argue that OSU (and other universities) should not be included in the broad "public school" definition. But the court ruled the intent of the statute was to not disrupt education and worship and therefore the 300 foot limit does apply to public colleges.


As I stated before, this may be a case of simply having to go one extra step and apply for a variance. I would also expect ABLE to understand this is a unique situation.

Never dealt with the ABLE commission have you?

I can understand the 300 foot rule with K-12 schools but to lump colleges in with it is ridiculous.

So why is it that at OU, there are bars that are practically on campus?

I'm sure none of the bars on Campus Corner are within 300 feet of any of the OU buildings.

However, Stubbeman Village is very close to Adams Center.

Those areas were "wet" before the existing incarnation of the ABLE commission existed. There are some places across Boyd that might be within 300 feet of the old engineering building.

[MikeLucky]

Yeah this is logical... I mean college kids don't drink anyway! LOL

[menos]

From what I was told, years ago this was a problem on campus corner. From what I heard a church rented one of the spaces with the express purpose of preventing any new liquor licenses from being granted. It pretty much killed campus corner for a little while. I'm guessing it changed because there are new bars there now, right?

[SatelliteHigh]

So why is it that at OU, there are bars that are practically on campus?

[Pete]

I'm sure none of the bars on Campus Corner are within 300 feet of any of the OU buildings.

However, Stubbeman Village is very close to Adams Center.

[kevinpate]

I'm sure none of the bars on Campus Corner are within 300 feet of any of the OU buildings.

However, Stubbeman Village is very close to Adams Center.

There was a time, some time ago, when low point brews were served up plentifully in the basement of the union. the brews were so plentiful those of age at times had so many pitchers they sat them down at tables of the underaged ... or so goes the old rumor mill anyway.

[bluedogok]

There was a time, some time ago, when low point brews were served up plentifully in the basement of the union. the brews were so plentiful those of age at times had so many pitchers they sat them down at tables of the underaged ... or so goes the old rumor mill anyway.

They still served beer there when I was in school, in fact they had a casino night in the union and sold beer there, beer was also still 18 at the time so there weren't many "underaged" at that time. During move-in week at the dorms the beer companies had booths setup between Walker and Adams and were giving away various items, not beer though.

[Pete]

I can understand the 300 foot rule with K-12 schools but to lump colleges in with it is ridiculous.

The wording of the statute is just "public school" but universities were ruled to be a part of of that category by a court of appeals.

[BDK]

They were ruled to be so by the Oklahoma Supreme Court, as well, Pete ( J. Brotton Corp. v. Oklahoma Alcoholic Beverage Laws Enforcement Com'n).

http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...p?citeid=15174

[Questor]

This is insanity.

[bombermwc]

Even a public/private partnership like this? It might be partnered with UCO, but the ACM itself is private. I think it would be a stretched to consider the ACM suites part of the "campus". No more than Presbyterian Tower is part of OU's campus simply because it's at OU Med Center. Health/Science Center...different story.

I mean hey, if it got voted on and that's what they said, then whatever. But it seems like it's a point in case for a variance. No tolerance policies are for pissy parents that don't blame themselves for any of their kid's problems....not for the real world.

[Rover]

Before we all go ballistic, why doesn't Steve actually interview someone from the Able Commission to hear what their position really is? Seems like this would be newsworthy. I would like the real story, not hysteria based on hearsay. What license applications, if any, have actually been turned down and what were the reasons given? Anybody have those facts? Is that public knowledge?

[Spartan]

Before we all go ballistic, why doesn't Steve actually interview someone from the Able Commission to hear what their position really is? Seems like this would be newsworthy. I would like the real story, not hysteria based on hearsay. What license applications, if any, have actually been turned down and what were the reasons given? Anybody have those facts? Is that public knowledge?

In most cases reason and prudence before taking a position would be nice, but we are talking about the ABLE commission here... Why bother? Asking their opinion or reading a press release from them must be one of the biggest wastes of time on the planet.

[Midtowner]

In most cases reason and prudence before taking a position would be nice, but we are talking about the ABLE commission here... Why bother? Asking their opinion or reading a press release from them must be one of the biggest wastes of time on the planet.

In this case, it's not their fault. They're following the law. Blame the legislature for not taking this issue up. I can't imagine that it'd be very controversial to allow beer and liquor stores within 300 feet of a public college or university.

That said, this statute could be challenged from a number of angles. It has before, but developments at the federal level, notably, Lawrence v. Texas, have weakened the states' abilities to pass laws solely for moralistic reasons, so you might have a due process violation in that there is no rational basis for the state to prohibit the licensure of an alcohol-serving establishment within 300 feet of a public university--especially when they allow other entities to keep their licenses solely because they were there prior to the existence of the college or university. It's essentially an admission that the legislature doesn't really think there is a problem here.

If I had my druthers, we'd just do away with ABLE entirely. Enforcing 21-to-drink regulations can be done by state police, licenses can be issued by the OTC. We don't really need anyone to enforce the job-killing/cartel supporting regulations we have now. Let's get rid of all that and laissez les bonne temps rouler.