American Chopper

[MattB]

If you watch the show, are you more on Junior's side, or Senior's?

[dmoor82]

I can see Sr's pov the disrespect an all,but I'm gonna have to go with Jr.!

[MattB]

You don't think Jr. has a piss-poor work ethic?

[dmoor82]

^^Yea I do,when he worked for OCC but now that he owns his own comapany you can see that he works harder!What is wrong of Junior is that he stole an OCC client to build a bike!

[MattB]

^^Yea I do,when he worked for OCC but now that he owns his own comapany you can see that he works harder!What is wrong of Junior is that he stole an OCC client to build a bike!

Yeah, I pointed that out on another board, but everyone's arguing that the company came to him, not vice versa.

[Dustin]

Sr. is a douchebag... Jr. all the way!

[MattB]

Sr. is a douchebag...

How so?

[MsDarkstar]

I feel a little sorry for Senior in some ways but overall I am siding with Junior. I agree that Junior had a pretty bad work ethic when he was at OCC but it seems that it HAS improved somewhat (still a lot of room for improvement) since launching his own company but he's the boss now - he pays people to do most of the work for him. From what I've seen, Senior seems to like to spy and gossip about Junior/Junior's business. It's like he's thriving on the drama, whereas Junior seems to just want to put it to rest. I do feel sorry for Senior because I think that Mikey is kind of jerking him around a little by playing both sides of the fence...giving him hope, trying to communicate with him, then backing off. Mikey just seems to be leading him on. With regards to the latest issue of the supposed client stealing, on the episode that started all that the client stated to the camera that they had considered both OCC & Junior and decided that Junior was a better fit for them. They approached Junior, not the other way around, so I can't see where Senior has any room to make such a big deal out of it.

[Dustin]

Didnt he miss his sons wedding?!? I'm not an avid watcher, but the episodes I did watch, his behavior was off-putting.

[TaoMaas]

First off...they're BOTH wrong. Jr didn't appreciate the work that Sr had put into the business in order to build it to the point where he could even afford to hire Jr. And Sr didn't appreciate the designs that Jr brought to the business. Now though, I side with Jr. He seems like he wants to put this behind them and run separate businesses. Sr seems to want to hurt Jr for some reason. I kinda think it's a macho thing where the old lion is too proud to admit that he's been passed by.

[MattB]

First off...they're BOTH wrong. Jr didn't appreciate the work that Sr had put into the business in order to build it to the point where he could even afford to hire Jr. And Sr didn't appreciate the designs that Jr brought to the business. Now though, I side with Jr. He seems like he wants to put this behind them and run separate businesses. Sr seems to want to hurt Jr for some reason. I kinda think it's a macho thing where the old lion is too proud to admit that he's been passed by.

I think JR. disrespected him constantly. It was SR's shop, like it or not, and JR. didn't HAVE to work there. He came and went as he pleased, was always late, left for haircuts and real estate closings, etc, and was often absent when needed. He talked back to his father constantly, and ignored everything he told him to do. The only reason he got away with it for so long was because his daddy owned the business. Could you see Rick or Vinnie behaving like that and getting away with it?
That being said, I think you're right about Sr. being too hard to let his defenses down. Frankly, I think the reason he still tries to keep the conflict going is that deep down, he still wants a relationship with JR and Mikey, and in his dysfunctional way, the only thing he knows how to do is to keep stirring that pot.

[jstaylor62]

I think JR. disrespected him constantly. It was SR's shop, like it or not, and JR. didn't HAVE to work there. He came and went as he pleased, was always late, left for haircuts and real estate closings, etc, and was often absent when needed. He talked back to his father constantly, and ignored everything he told him to do. The only reason he got away with it for so long was because his daddy owned the business. Could you see Rick or Vinnie behaving like that and getting away with it?
That being said, I think you're right about Sr. being too hard to let his defenses down. Frankly, I think the reason he still tries to keep the conflict going is that deep down, he still wants a relationship with JR and Mikey, and in his dysfunctional way, the only thing he knows how to do is to keep stirring that pot.

And you dont think that all the petty arguments and senseless drama was what the producers asked them to display for the show?!?!

[MattB]

And you dont think that all the petty arguments and senseless drama was what the producers asked them to display for the show?!?!

No, I don't. These guys build choppers, not act. I suspect they couldn't act their way out of a wet paper bag. After the first "tiff" was filmed and recorded, SR. was reportedly furious with producers about airing the "dirty laundry. He calmed down when they told him that show scored highest ratings ever for one of Discovery's shows. Secondly, the lawsuit is real. The courts would frown upon a "fake" suit filed to boost ratings.

[Richard at Remax]

Junior.

[kevinpate]

Does it matter? Being mainly another 'reality' pile, isn't it pretty much a redneck version of Survivor sans any cuties?
Dinna know there had been a split. But hey, if it gets fan choosing sides, it apparently was the right script change.

[MattB]

Does it matter? Being mainly another 'reality' pile, isn't it pretty much a redneck version of Survivor sans any cuties?

I guess not, if you're accustomed to looking down on people who don't fit into your preferred demographic. The split hardly appears to be "scripted," as SR has a lawsuit filed against JR.

[dmoor82]

It matters to those who like or watch the show or like motorcycles/Choppers,and these builders are hardly redneck they are from New York and Thanks for your input!

[Snowman]

I have not watched the most recent seasons where most of this went down but am surprised they were able to continue working together as long as they did.

[kevinpate]

Would that be the suit that was quietly settled some time last month? Or some other suit? In any event, if such a show entertains, then enjoy. That's what the folks who really dig Survivor, Biggest Loser, Dance this or that, Idol or Potter or Twilight do, so yeah, I suppose I can see where it could happen that some people might get wrapped up in Team Paul or Team Paulie.

Vaaaaaroooom to your heart's content.

[dmoor82]

Would that be the suit that was quietly settled some time last month? Or some other suit? In any event, if such a show entertains, then enjoy. That's what the folks who really dig Survivor, Biggest Loser, Dance this or that, Idol or Potter or Twilight do, so yeah, I suppose I can see where it could happen that some people might get wrapped up in Team Paul or Team Paulie.

Vaaaaaroooom to your heart's content.

OK,Whats your favorite show?All those shows but Harry Potter and Twilight are game reality shows that the contestants win a prize,American Chopper has The same cast every season and there is no prize!I will agree that alot of the series is scripted somewhat!

[MattB]

Would that be the suit that was quietly settled some time last month? Or some other suit? In any event, if such a show entertains, then enjoy. That's what the folks who really dig Survivor, Biggest Loser, Dance this or that, Idol or Potter or Twilight do, so yeah, I suppose I can see where it could happen that some people might get wrapped up in Team Paul or Team Paulie.

Vaaaaaroooom to your heart's content.

Got a link? I've been surfing the web last few weeks and haven't found a conclusion to the lawsuit. Not that settling a suit makes anything any less legit.

[oneforone]

American Chopper is proof of why you should not start a business with family members. If you do, you need sit down together and decide what roles each person will play and leave well enough alone. Senior's problem is that he think's Jr. should obey and follow him in lock step just as most fathers do of their children. Once your kids reach adulthood the game changes. A father can no longer expect their child to 100% obey them once they become an adult.

It seemed like Senior spent more time picking fights on stupid stuff then actually stepping in to lend a hand to speed up the process. He reminds me of the old school boss that has pretty much become exitinct in today's workplace. In today's workplace a boss cannot blow their top over every little cotton picking thing. If they do blow up, they have to use tact and offer solutions to the problem. Bosses that are hard asses never last because they have issues retaining quality people. Today's workers will only take so much before they leave for other jobs.

If you happen to notice Jr. is getting a taste of his own medicine because one of his own employees is pulling the same crap he did (coming in late, being mouthy).

The two need to be careful and get this little squabble settled. Otherwise there business might just go down the tubes. There are too many people out there doing what they do (a few were there suppliers and figured out they could do the same thing with less drama). Many motorcycle riders are opting for local shops vs. OCC and West Coast Choppers. Just simply because it is easier to take the bike back to the local guy if they have problems. Sometimes being in tight with the local guy can save you a few dollars if you willing to throw a little work his way by refferals.

The only way I think they will solve it is by working together in seperate locations Junior could do the designs and a few side projects of his own. Senior can do assembly with a few projects of his own on the side.

The two have proven they cannot work together on the same site. I am suprised they have not lost any of their employees based on the tantrums each has thrown. I don't care how much I am making or how much notoriety I have, I would not continue to work for someone who throws tantrums all the time. As soon as a new job was found, I would be out of there.

[MattB]

American Chopper is proof of why you should not start a business with family members. If you do, you need sit down together and decide what roles each person will play and leave well enough alone. Senior's problem is that he think's Jr. should obey and follow him in lock step just as most fathers do of their children. Once your kids reach adulthood the game changes. A father can no longer expect their child to 100% obey them once they become an adult.

It seemed like Senior spent more time picking fights on stupid stuff then actually stepping in to lend a hand to speed up the process. He reminds me of the old school boss that has pretty much become exitinct in today's workplace. In today's workplace a boss cannot blow their top over every little cotton picking thing. If they do blow up, they have to use tact and offer solutions to the problem. Bosses that are hard asses never last because they have issues retaining quality people. Today's workers will only take so much before they leave for other jobs.

If you happen to notice Jr. is getting a taste of his own medicine because one of his own employees is pulling the same crap he did (coming in late, being mouthy).

The two need to be careful and get this little squabble settled. Otherwise there business might just go down the tubes. There are too many people out there doing what they do (a few were there suppliers and figured out they could do the same thing with less drama). Many motorcycle riders are opting for local shops vs. OCC and West Coast Choppers. Just simply because it is easier to take the bike back to the local guy if they have problems. Sometimes being in tight with the local guy can save you a few dollars if you willing to throw a little work his way by refferals.

The only way I think they will solve it is by working together in seperate locations Junior could do the designs and a few side projects of his own. Senior can do assembly with a few projects of his own on the side.

The two have proven they cannot work together on the same site. I am suprised they have not lost any of their employees based on the tantrums each has thrown. I don't care how much I am making or how much notoriety I have, I would not continue to work for someone who throws tantrums all the time. As soon as a new job was found, I would be out of there.

I guess I'm not "with the times," because in my mind, the founder and owner of the business is the boss and can call the shots, and doesn't have get in there and "lend a helping hand."
Notice that SR. doesn't blow up at the other employees? Its because they know their daddy isn't the owner, and they won't be able to get away with coming and going as they please, and ignoring the boss' orders. Hence, they stay busy, and follow SR's rules, which results in the fact that he doesn't have yell at them or chew them out.
I have a strong hunch that had JR. simply done what SR told him to do, these blow-outs wouldn't have become prominent. Frankly, I would have fired the brat long before SR.
"Today's workers will only take so much before they leave for other jobs." Hmmm... I'll be polite and not speak my mind on that one...

[oneforone]

I agree with what your saying in regards to bosses. However, you have two generations going on three that a stern talking to or screaming session (lack of a better term) does not even phase them.

They should have never gone into business together in the first place. They new the dynamics of their relationship going into the deal. The only way a father and son business can work is when each has their own area of responsiblity and the two don't cross. There also has to be the divine understanding that at work it's business outside of work were family and we keep the two seperated.

Junior and Seniors relationship is exactly why most employers have nepotism policies in place that ban family members from working in the same department or working there period. When I applied for a job with City of Midwest City a few years back they had a waiver to sign that stated that you cannot work for them if one of your family members was a current or recently retired city employee.

Managers will always give their kids lee way until it reaches extremes well past the point they would fire everyone else. Employees with family connections in management sooner or later develop a "I can't get fired attitude." The "I can't get fired attitude" was the reason why Junior did the things he did.

[kevinpate]

For mattB

I saw a blurb on it somewhere. But as blurbs are blurbs, I took a moment and looked at the NY case site, ecourts.com, which confirmed the case has been disposed of as of 02/23.