Let's keep the momentum, keep moving forward!

[Mikemarsh51]

When the citizens voted to add 200 additional Police officers and Firefighters the 3/4 of a cent sales tax was created. This sales tax has provided funding exclusively for the public safety area. This sales tax also provided relief to the general fund. On several occasions the public safety sector has shown the city was using tactics to use this dedicated fund to fund "other projects". They appear to have done this again.

Maps3 passed and 180 is in the works, but now we are considering reducing ESSENTIAL SERVICES by 12%. Our population has grown by approx. 100,000 people in the last 20 years and we have not kept up with growth. Now our council is considering taking us backward. Please take an opportunity to contact your council member and ask them to keep the momentun moving forward with the growth of our city and keep our ESSENTIAL SERVICES growing.

[BigD Misey]

When the citizens voted to add 200 additional Police officers and Firefighters the 3/4 of a cent sales tax was created. This sales tax has provided funding exclusively for the public safety area. This sales tax also provided relief to the general fund. On several occasions the public safety sector has shown the city was using tactics to use this dedicated fund to fund "other projects". They appear to have done this again.

Maps3 passed and 180 is in the works, but now we are considering reducing ESSENTIAL SERVICES by 12%. Our population has grown by approx. 100,000 people in the last 20 years and we have not kept up with growth. Now our council is considering taking us backward. Please take an opportunity to contact your council member and ask them to keep the momentun moving forward with the growth of our city and keep our ESSENTIAL SERVICES growing.

WOW! That is hard to believe. Can you point in a direction where you gathered this info? Thanks for the heads up.

[rcjunkie]

When the citizens voted to add 200 additional Police officers and Firefighters the 3/4 of a cent sales tax was created. This sales tax has provided funding exclusively for the public safety area. This sales tax also provided relief to the general fund. On several occasions the public safety sector has shown the city was using tactics to use this dedicated fund to fund "other projects". They appear to have done this again.

Maps3 passed and 180 is in the works, but now we are considering reducing ESSENTIAL SERVICES by 12%. Our population has grown by approx. 100,000 people in the last 20 years and we have not kept up with growth. Now our council is considering taking us backward. Please take an opportunity to contact your council member and ask them to keep the momentun moving forward with the growth of our city and keep our ESSENTIAL SERVICES growing.

Mike, I agree with you 100% that we need more Police/Fire, but in the present economy, it's just not possible. We must continue to grow (MAPS3, Core to Shore, Project 180), these will do nothing but help our City grow, expand the tax base and hopefully allow the economical situation to improve sooner rather than later.

[barnold]

Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

By the sound of it, our city leaders have not planned ahead and are now feeling the results of it. You don't by a Mercedes if you can't afford to change the oil and perform basic maintenance on it. It will fall apart and be a money pit if you don't take care of it, just like our Essential services.

[ljbab728]

Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

By the sound of it, our city leaders have not planned ahead and are now feeling the results of it. You don't by a Mercedes if you can't afford to change the oil and perform basic maintenance on it. It will fall apart and be a money pit if you don't take care of it, just like our Essential services.

barnold, apparently every city and state in the country has the same pour planning. They are all in trouble, not just us.

[Steve]

Project 180 has NOTHING to do with public safety funding.

[Wambo36]

Project 180 has NOTHING to do with public safety funding.

That's all well and good, but next time your interviewing the mayor for some story maybe you could ask him about his progress on keeping the promises he made to use the MAPS3 use tax to hire more public safety employees. Or is the fact that he's been completely stonewalled, on those very public promises, not newsworthy enough. You could approach it from the angle of how could a two time mayor, running for his third term, not know he didn't have the authority to make those promises. Or did he know it and just not care. Now those are answers that would be interesting to read.

[Larry OKC]

That's all well and good, but next time your interviewing the mayor for some story maybe you could ask him about his progress on keeping the promises he made to use the MAPS3 use tax to hire more public safety employees. Or is the fact that he's been completely stonewalled, on those very public promises, not newsworthy enough. You could approach it from the angle of how could a two time mayor, running for his third term, not know he didn't have the authority to make those promises. Or did he know it and just not care. Now those are answers that would be interesting to read.

The last article I read on this (sorry don't have a link handy) indicated that the Council had come to some sort of an agreement and resolved the MAPS 3 Use Tax issue. Does anyone else remember this or have the link?

[OUGrad05]

People keep saying this (not on here but in my family and friends). They keep saying the city is taking dollars dedicated to public safety and using those dollars on other projects and in other departments but not one single person has provided a news video or article that backs up their claim. Nor has anyone provided any data of any sort.

I can get on a forum or on the phone with a friend and say the city is moving money raised from the public safety sales tax and is going to use it to buy beer and legos. Doesn't make it true.

If this is happening its bad news and should be brought to everyone's attention...but why can't anyone provide anything beyond heresay?

[NickFiggins]

Yes its true OKC is using money to sales tax dollars to pay for MAPS3 projects. If it were to dedicate that money to public safety that would be against what the public voted for. So the reason that public safety would be cut by 15% is probably because sales tax receipts are WAY DOWN, due to the economy. Sorry its not Mick taking the money and spending it on special projects. Tulsa reduced their force by over 15% and its not because they put it all in the BOk center.

And Project 180, is a TIF, meaning property taxes and its based on property that wasn't previously on the rolls, not sales taxes.

[andy157]

People keep saying this (not on here but in my family and friends). They keep saying the city is taking dollars dedicated to public safety and using those dollars on other projects and in other departments but not one single person has provided a news video or article that backs up their claim. Nor has anyone provided any data of any sort.

I can get on a forum or on the phone with a friend and say the city is moving money raised from the public safety sales tax and is going to use it to buy beer and legos. Doesn't make it true.

If this is happening its bad news and should be brought to everyone's attention...but why can't anyone provide anything beyond heresay?

I believe it is safe to say that NONE of the 3/4 cent Public Safety Sales Tax is being spent in any other department(s) other than the Fire and Police departments. However, that does not mean the tax has always been spent properly, or legally for that matter, because it hasn't, and that is a fact, not heresay.

[mugofbeer]

I believe it is safe to say that NONE of the 3/4 cent Public Safety Sales Tax is being spent in any other department(s) other than the Fire and Police departments. However, that does not mean the tax has always been spent properly, or legally for that matter, because it hasn't, and that is a fact, not heresay.

That's a pretty harsh accusation. Can you provide factual information showing how money was spent illegally? I dont know if this is true or not, I'd just like to see some facts - since you say this is fact.

[andy157]

That's a pretty harsh accusation. Can you provide factual information showing how money was spent illegally? I dont know if this is true or not, I'd just like to see some facts - since you say this is fact.

Doug has the facts posted on his blog.

[Larry OKC]

People keep saying this (not on here but in my family and friends). They keep saying the city is taking dollars dedicated to public safety and using those dollars on other projects and in other departments but not one single person has provided a news video or article that backs up their claim. Nor has anyone provided any data of any sort.

I can get on a forum or on the phone with a friend and say the city is moving money raised from the public safety sales tax and is going to use it to buy beer and legos. Doesn't make it true.

If this is happening its bad news and should be brought to everyone's attention...but why can't anyone provide anything beyond heresay?

While I don't have the specific links handy, I hope this helps as an example (was part of one of the various Fire/Police threads or maybe the Hockey/Cox improvements)

Reportedly, the original source of funds for the Cox Hockey improvements is from the MAPS for Kids Use Tax (that tax ended over a year ago). This is not to be confused with the actual MAPS for Kids tax which was to be exclusively for the schools. “Use taxes are charged instead of sales taxes to businesses that buy items outside of Oklahoma City for use within the city.” (if the other state doesn’t impose a tax). The accompanying Use Tax can be used for whatever purpose the Council decides. Originally that money was earmarked for public safety. The Council recently decided to take that earmarked money (changing their intent, just as they did under MAPS with the Bass Pro deal). This is perfectly legal (as the court decided w/Bass Pro). But just because it is legal, doesn't make it right. IMO

They are in essence loaning themselves the money thru the operator of the Cox (SMG) to be paid back at least partially through the $2 ticket charge. Presuming sell-outs with a seating capacity of 13,399 x $2 = $26,798/game x 40 reg season games = $1.072M/year. (20 dates are reserved in April and May for any potential playoff games which would contribute). Best case scenario isn’t all that bad in number of years to pay back the loan. Unless you are depending on that $4M and the public safety equipment it would have purchased. In theory, after the loan is paid back, the money will once again be used for the earmarked public safety.

[pw405]

Norman is building a new fire dept, so is Moore - OKC has 500% more population than Norman, is OKC so broke they cant build a new fire department? Will a fire department in Moore, that is 2 miles away from the OKC border not go there for emergency services?

The new Moore fire station is on Sunnylane, south of S 19th street, the new Norman fire department is on 36th west, north of Indian hills - also very close to south okc area. Maybe OKC doesn't need new fire stations, as the suburbs are building them so close to the city limits? Any new fire stations going up in the NW OKC area/Piedmont/Edmond?

[barnold]

It's actually a 12% cut for all departments. And Tulsa does not have a dedicated 3/4 cent public safety sales tax. As to the other tax dollars going to pet projects, i would ask where did the money come from for the new hockey team? Does someone know what fund these dollars were pulled out of?

[andy157]

It's actually a 12% cut for all departments. And Tulsa does not have a dedicated 3/4 cent public safety sales tax. As to the other tax dollars going to pet projects, i would ask where did the money come from for the new hockey team? Does someone know what fund these dollars were pulled out of?

I believe it came from the MAPS 4 KIDS Use Tax, but without checking to be sure, I wouldn't swear to that.

[rcjunkie]

I believe it came from the MAPS 4 KIDS Use Tax, but without checking to be sure, I wouldn't swear to that.

True, but it was a loan and is to be paid back to the City. If were going to state something, lets tell the whole story.

[Larry OKC]

True, but it was a loan and is to be paid back to the City. If were going to state something, lets tell the whole story.

NewsOK

For ice hockey, Oklahoma City to upgrade convention site (Oklahoman, 2/17/10)

Oklahoma City will pay for $3.2 million in improvements to the Cox Convention Center for ice hockey through a tax related to MAPS for Kids.

The money will be reimbursed through revenue generated by the new American Hockey League franchise...

...

The money will come from a use tax that was established after voters approved the MAPS for Kids sales tax. The city has often relied on the use tax to pay for capital improvements.

City Manager Jim Couch said the use tax money will be reimbursed through hockey revenues and revenue for other Cox Center events.

[andy157]

When the citizens voted to add 200 additional Police officers and Firefighters the 3/4 of a cent sales tax was created. This sales tax has provided funding exclusively for the public safety area. This sales tax also provided relief to the general fund. On several occasions the public safety sector has shown the city was using tactics to use this dedicated fund to fund "other projects". They appear to have done this again.

Maps3 passed and 180 is in the works, but now we are considering reducing ESSENTIAL SERVICES by 12%. Our population has grown by approx. 100,000 people in the last 20 years and we have not kept up with growth. Now our council is considering taking us backward. Please take an opportunity to contact your council member and ask them to keep the momentun moving forward with the growth of our city and keep our ESSENTIAL SERVICES growing.

I'm still trying to find the 15 Fire recruits who are being paid $961,777. out of the PSST through a "other project" expenditure. Do you know where they are at? It's like they're ghost.

[Mikemarsh51]

Pw405, station 13 has a first in response area that is larger than the city of Moore. It also comes within 6 blocks of both of the new stations on the east side of Moore. Moore would respond to an address if it was requested. It's called mutual aid. It is not used for regular situations. That is just how it is you get the service you pay for in the place you live.

The city of Moore pays their firefighters generally the same as Okc's previous year contract. So why is it they are hiring and we are facing layoffs. You can't tell me a city of 30 some square miles is doing better than a city of over 624 square miles.

[Wambo36]

Pw405, station 13 has a first in response area that is larger than the city of Moore. It also comes within 6 blocks of both of the new stations on the east side of Moore. Moore would respond to an address if it was requested. It's called mutual aid. It is not used for regular situations. That is just how it is you get the service you pay for in the place you live.

The city of Moore pays their firefighters generally the same as Okc's previous year contract. So why is it they are hiring and we are facing layoffs. You can't tell me a city of 30 some square miles is doing better than a city of over 624 square miles.

Actually Mike, the city of Moore went around us on pay and benefits last year. The previous agreement, where they got the wages and benefits that OKC got the previous year, was holding them back. Their city manager asked them if they were tired of waiting on the city of OKC to catch up with the 10 city average. Of course they said yes.

[Mikemarsh51]

Andy157, can you link to Doug's blog?

[Mikemarsh51]

Wambo, how are they doing that? They don't have a major league city. Where's their Air Force base, basketball team, lakes with restaurants, convention centers and federal and state buildings. We have so much more than them how can this be possible?

[rcjunkie]

Wambo, how are they doing that? They don't have a major league city. Where's their Air Force base, basketball team, lakes with restaurants, convention centers and federal and state buildings. We have so much more than them how can this be possible?

When did OKC get an Air Force Base, did Tinker move ?