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  1. #1

    Default Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Pretty good ESPN article IMO.

    I love how trolls and internet tuff guys trash OKC and its people in the comments , like its our fault their owners sold the team. They only cared when they lost their team to a smaller city who cares. Jealousy is a b*tch.

    Is Oklahoma City an NBA purgatory or a fine place for ballers to chill? Scoop Jackson investigates. - ESPN

    OKLAHOMA CITY -- Funny thing about places we call the abyss. They never are what we think they are.

    In the NBA, Oklahoma City is considered the abyss. It's the place where no player wants to be stuck. Nothing against OKC -- it used to be Sacremento, Vancouver, San Antonio and Milwaukee. Not only is the Thunder one of the least likely teams to get anyone in the 2010 free agent extravaganza which begins in July, but OKC is generally considered the last place on the NBA map any player would want to play. Not because of the organization or the fact it relocated from Seattle, but because, well, it's Oklahoma City.

    But the city isn't what it's made out to be. Like Jon Gosselin masquerading as a good father, it's been misrepresented. As the Thunder's veteran point guard Kevin Ollie said, "It's not Miami or L.A., but it's cool here. Real chill."

    "Chill" is not to be confused with "boring" or a form of social punishment. Chill is the life and lifestyle the Thunder have adopted. Star forward Kevin Durant, for whom it seems this outpost has become a perfect playground, said, "I come from a big city [Washington, D.C.] You can get tired of tall buildings after a while.

    [+] EnlargeKevin Durant
    Layne Murdoch/NBAE/Getty ImagesKevin Durant has said he wants to remain with the Thunder "as long as possible." But he can become
    a free agent after next season.

    "Man, I live across the street from a farm."

    To some of the younger players in the league, Oklahoma City might seem like the NBA's version of Smallville. But the relative lack of late-night entertainment doesn't hinder the players on this squad. Instead, they found a way to turn the sublimely simple into a satisfying routine. They do the one thing almost no other NBA team does after home games: They stick together.

    Enter Mickey Mantle's Steakhouse, which is the after-game spot, according to nearly everyone. From Thunder media director Brian Facchini to an usher working the game to one of the Thunder dancers to rookie sensation James Harden, they all say Mickey Mantle's is the place to be. It's a low-key, down-home version of the Mickey Mantle's in NYC.

    The downtown entertainment district in Oklahoma City is known as Bricktown. It's the place where players have options. After almost every game, without fail, that's where they go. The squad, their friends and family, their agents, their shoe reps, the dancers, season-ticket holders and anyone else who wants to be down heads over to Mickey Mantle's to chill out.

    Even though there are enough "spots" in Bricktown to make a player happy he isn't a member of the Utah Jazz, the Thunder players tend to call it a night relatively early. One player put it in perspective: "It's not like the selection of women is off the charts here." Which makes it a little easier for most of the squad to "play the crib" after Mickey Mantle's closes.

    The funny thing is, nightlife has never made an NBA city. To most players, that's what the road is for. But how do Thunder players occupy themselves during daylight hours, when stir-craziness can often set in?

    The great golf courses that can be found around the city mean little to these players; the squad is too young to make that other game a personal national pastime. Between the options of hanging out at Penn Square and Quail Springs malls, actually spending free time in the communities, driving to the Riverwind Casino in Norman or three hours south to Dallas, most Thunder players spend their time floating between one another's houses for barbecues and video games.

    Thunder
    Tim Heitman/US PresswireThe nucleus of Russell Westbrook, Jeff Green and Durant could make OKC an attractive destination -- if the Thunder can manage to keep them together.

    "That's what they do," Facchini said. "Most of them stay around each other, in the same community and are around the same age, so what they do is just visit each other."

    Which makes what is supposed to make the abyss livable.

    But Oklahoma City has at least one thing that definitely appeals to players. The Thunder has a training facility unlike almost any other in the NBA. It's where the team practices and works out. To any player who thinks OKC is NBA purgatory, this place will make you thank a higher power than David Stern for allowing a trade to go through.

    The facility has become an extreme home away from home. It's an old roller-skating rink that was tricked out into a state-of-the-art basketball factory where players have been known to hang out hours after practice is over. The oversized chairs and couches are all butter-soft leather. The sound system keeps Dream and Snoop blasting. There are so many flat screens you might almost mistake them for wallpaper. There are also two chefs on site to cook for the players.

    If this is the abyss, where does the line start?

    Funny thing when you become the main attraction in a place that is supposed to be your purgatory, but the people embrace you so tightly you find it impossible to let them down, or let them go. You begin to realize it ain't so bad.

    Several Thunder players even alluded to the fact that being in OKC has allowed them to focus more on basketball than if the team were in another city.

    "People always ask, 'Wouldn't you rather be in Miami or L.A.?'" Durant said. "I always tell them, 'No.' This place is perfect for me."

    Scoop Jackson is a columnist for ESPN.com.

  2. Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    David Glover: THERE ARE TWO CHEFS COOKING FOR THESE PEOPLE AND A SOUND SYSTEM THAT WE PAID FOR BLASTING SNOOP?? [keels over]

  3. #3

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    David Glover: THERE ARE TWO CHEFS COOKING FOR THESE PEOPLE AND A SOUND SYSTEM THAT WE PAID FOR BLASTING SNOOP?? [keels over]
    Haha - David can't say that yet - this is the practice arena that the team bought, not the one being built.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Maybe I am reading a different article but it was only Moderately complementary

  5. #5

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsooner View Post
    Maybe I am reading a different article but it was only Moderately complementary
    Yeah, I felt the same way.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    I thought the article was very bad. It was a backhanded compliment.

    It basically said that OKC is so boring that the only thing to do here is eat at Mickey Mantle's, hang out at the each other's houses, and the gym.

    It even dissed the women of OKC.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    David Glover: THERE ARE TWO CHEFS COOKING FOR THESE PEOPLE AND A SOUND SYSTEM THAT WE PAID FOR BLASTING SNOOP?? [keels over]
    Spar. Are you sure that we paid for anything associated with the practice facility referenced or are you just making up your facts as you go, again? If memory serves, the owners bought that ice rink, turned it into a practice facility and furnished it. Can you point to any news article to back up your assertion?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Popsy View Post
    Spar. Are you sure that we paid for anything associated with the practice facility referenced or are you just making up your facts as you go, again? If memory serves, the owners bought that ice rink, turned it into a practice facility and furnished it. Can you point to any news article to back up your assertion?

    The news articles did indeed indicate that the Thunder bought/paid for the temporary practice facility (but there was an ESPN article that said the Thunder paid for the Ford improvements too). Here is the info from the actual lease (available for download from the City's website: City of Oklahoma City | Public Information & Marketing)

    ARENA UPGRADES AGREEMENT

    3.8.2

    If the License Commencement Date occurs prior to Substantial Completion of the Practice Facility as provided herein, the City will provide to the Team, at no expense to the Team, a temporary practice facility in the Oklahoma City area reasonably acceptable to the Team. Such practice facility will conform to applicable NBA Standards for practice facilities and made available at times necessary for Team use from the License Commencement Date until a date 30 days after Substantial Completion of the Practice Facility. The costs of providing such temporary facilities hereunder shall not he included in Project Costs. To the extent necessary, an amendment to this Agreement will be executed identifying any agreed revisions to the Scheduling Deadlines.

    Interesting to note that even though the City paid for/owns the temporary practice facility and is paying for/will own the permanent practice facility, there is a provision in the Lease that requires the City to pay the Team $5,000 per day that the permanent facility is not complete:

    3.13.2 Practice Facility Project. If the Practice Facility Project does not achieve Substantial Completion on or before the Scheduled Completion Date for the Practice Facility and such delay is not attributable to a Team Change Order(s), then, in addition to other rights of the Team as provided herein, the Authority shall remit to the Team, subject to the limitations set forth herein $5,000 for each day of such delay. The Team shall have reasonable approval rights of any liquidated damages provided for in Construction Contracts and the procedures relating to the collection and payment of the same, which Construction Contracts shall excuse payment of liquidated damages only in the context of delays resulting from Force Majeure. Liquidated Damages hereunder are not Project Costs.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry OKC View Post
    The news articles did indeed indicate that the Thunder bought/paid for the temporary practice facility (but there was an ESPN article that said the Thunder paid for the Ford improvements too). Here is the info from the actual lease (available for download from the City's website: City of Oklahoma City | Public Information & Marketing)

    ARENA UPGRADES AGREEMENT




    Interesting to note that even though the City paid for/owns the temporary practice facility and is paying for/will own the permanent practice facility, there is a provision in the Lease that requires the City to pay the Team $5,000 per day that the permanent facility is not complete:

    Larry et al,
    There is no question the Team owners received a very generous lease agreement. But, for me the $350M, plus $75M paid by the owners is a huge investment in this City and is worthy of our generosity. The spin off benefit of the Thunder is almost incalculable but I dare say far exceeds anything we could have experienced had the Thunder not arrived. I say, let the owners make money, it only solidifies the long term stability of the franchise which is what I really want.

  10. Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Loved this article. Great to hear all of that from the players.

  11. Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Can you please try to keep topics in the relevant topic areas and search before opening a new thread?

    http://www.okctalk.com/oklahoma-city...purgatory.html

  12. #12

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by venture79 View Post
    Can you please try to keep topics in the relevant topic areas and search before opening a new thread?

    http://www.okctalk.com/oklahoma-city...purgatory.html
    I agree with this. There's definitely a much-better discussion going on regarding this article over in the basketball section.

  13. Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    It's articles like this one that the rest of the world needs to see more of. Hopefully they will stop seeing OKC as just some dust bowl and start seeing it for the potential that it has.

  14. Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    OMG dude. I was making a facetious point. We are subsidizing the team, no?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    OMG dude. I was making a facetious point. We are subsidizing the team, no?
    no we are not

  16. #16

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    no we are not
    What do you consider "subsidizing" then?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry OKC View Post
    What do you consider "subsidizing" then?
    We let them lease the ford center and gave them a practice facility. Im pretty sure that's all the subsidizing we have done. Those chefs aren't city employees, they are paid by the thunder.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    We let them lease the ford center and gave them a practice facility. Im pretty sure that's all the subsidizing we have done. Those chefs aren't city employees, they are paid by the thunder.
    Don't know anything about the Chefs so won't speak to that. Would encourage you to go to the City's website City of Oklahoma City | Public Information & Marketing and download the Letter of Intent, Arena Use Lease Agreement, Practice Facility Lease Agreement, Arena Upgrades Agreement, and the Food & Beverage Agreement to see all of the taxpayer subsidies (from the list on the left hand side of the page). This doesn't include the $60M in tax rebate subsidies they received from the State.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    We let them lease the ford center and gave them a practice facility. Im pretty sure that's all the subsidizing we have done. Those chefs aren't city employees, they are paid by the thunder.
    How is leasing the Ford Center a subsidy? If someone lease office space are they being subsidized by the property owner?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Spar. If that was a facetious post, you have my apology. As to subsidizing the team, I am only aware of providing them with a new practice facility. If there are other subsidies I would appreciate your detailing of them so that I can have that knowledge in the future.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Popsy View Post
    Spar. If that was a facetious post, you have my apology. As to subsidizing the team, I am only aware of providing them with a new practice facility. If there are other subsidies I would appreciate your detailing of them so that I can have that knowledge in the future.
    It is in the lease agreement that the City (taxpayers) are not only paying for the construction of the new practice facility, but the City is responsible for any temporary office space, practice space etc. This gets a bit fuzzy because articles plainly stated that the Thunder bought the temp practice facility. That implies they bought and paid for it with their own money and no taxpayer funds were used. But it is implied in the lease that the taxpayers are paying for it. So maybe the team got reimbursed by the City or something. I really don't know. Just as there was an ESPN article that said the Thunder paid for the Ford improvements (and we all know that was in error).

  22. Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Yikes. There's nothing "downhome" about Mickey Mantle's.

  23. Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Yeah, I don't think the guy ever even stepped foot into Mickey's before writing that. Mickey's has no business affiliation with the NY location, for starters. But the greatest irony is that MM's here is a fine dining establishment, and the one in NY is pretty much a true sports bar, or about the opposite of the way he described things. Just another example of coasties making uninformed assumptions about OKC.

    Edit: oops, Scoop is from Chicago. Pretty much the same though, as far as big-city-superiority-over-anything-in-"flyover country" goes.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    It was an unfavorable lease, as much as the arena, that lost Seattle the Sonics. They made money, but they lost their team. Last night on ESPN, Kevin Durant was the player of the day and Russell Westbrook's outstanding dunk was #4 on the top ten list. If you google Oklahoma City, you see articles about the Thunder from all around the country. The article that started this thread, although I consider it only quasi-complimentary, would not have been written but for the Thunder. The city couldn't afford the kind of publicity and air time we get by having an NBA team, so you might have to consider free advertising in that cost consideration. The city wouldn't be making anything without the Thunder, because the Ford Center wouldn't have a tenant, so anything it makes over expenses is a bonus. I pay a $1 seat tax on every Thunder ticket I've bought, which is money the city wouldn't be making as well.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Is Oklahoma City basketball purgatory?

    Kerry,

    I understand what you are saying but if the Thunder want the rights to a building they need to pay for the building themselves (then they can do whatever they want to with the money). Not all NBA facilities are taxpayer subsidized. Most do have some level of public money but 5 NBA arenas had ZERO public money used. 8 (now 9 with the Ford) are 100% public financed with the balance pretty evenly split at various percentages.

    Saying the Thunder earned that money by being a tenant is like saying if Bennet et al started buying the houses surrounding your property and building multi-million $$$ homes (thus increasing your property value as well) and then demanding that any increase in your property value had to be turned over to them. After all, if it wasn't for them your property wouldn't be worth anything more. Would you be as willing to do that?

    Why does a tenant deserve any naming rights to a building they don't own? if they are going to get the naming rights to a building they don't own they can pay for the improvements to the same building (reportedly, this was the City's intention, that the eventual tenant would pay for the any improvements).

    Concerning the $409,000 the Thunder is so generously allowing the City to keep...we don't get to keep it after all. That money has to be put back into a revolving fund for the Thunder/Ford. Now in theory I don't have a problem with it because that was what the naming rights money was originally intended for (to cover the maintenance and capital improvements needs of not only the Ford but other MAPS projects). The problem with that was the City was severely off in its projections as to what the maintenance (and especially the capital improvement needs) would be. After 5 years it was determined that $100M in capital improvements would be needed to bring the Ford back up to NBA standards. That works out to be $20M/year yet the naming rights only cover $400K of that or 50 times more than what they had thought.

    Betts mentioned the $1 seat tax. While it is mentioned in the Lease (that the Thunder is allowing the City to charge it on all Thunder seats with the exception of the NBA mandated $10 ones), I haven't found any place where that $1 charge is earmarked. Hopefully the City is putting it back, because under the lease terms the City is responsible for upgrading the Suites and Loge Seating every 5 years. Now I don't know how much was spent on doing that this time around (again, just 5 years later) but they need to put back at least that same amount again.

    Then councilman Cornett had it right when he voted against the naming rights of the Arena. He didn't have anything against Ford, but he thought we should be promoting the City with the name and not a corporation.

    Were you aware that the Thunder is only paying the City $12K/game to rent the Ford (after game day expenses are covered)?

    Did you know that the Thunder was prepared to pay $200K/year for the practice facility yet our "sophisticated" negotiators managed to get that cut in half?

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