Commuter Rail-OKC to Norman

[blangtang]

OPINION PIECE IN NORMAN TRANSCRIPT
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OKC resolution, second line could mean more rail service


A couple of totally unrelated news items in recent weeks may give us a clue about future rail service in central Oklahoma.

The Burlington Northern Santa Fe, as part of its mandate for how the City of Norman must design the Robinson Street underpass, will require a platform big enough to support a second track.

That future track could be one that carries commuters from Norman to Oklahoma City and beyond, although no one is committing to such an endeavor.

On Tuesday, Oklahoma City Council members voted to support an application for federal grant money for commuter rail lines. Those lines would carry Oklahomans from Norman to Edmond, to Tinker Air Force Base and then to downtown Oklahoma City.

If approved, the participating cities would be expected to share in the line's maintenance which Oklahoma City believes will amount to less than $1 million a year.

Oklahoma City's action doesn't commit them to any particular plan. Rather, it lets the federal government know they want to be part of any future commuter rail plan.

If it all came together, train travel options in Oklahoma would include a high-speed link between Oklahoma City and Tulsa, an extension of the Heartland Flyer to Newton, Kan., and a commuter line that carried workers from downtown Norman to downtown Oklahoma City and beyond, much like the old Interurban line that ran here years ago.

The Norman Transcript - OKC resolution, second line could mean more rail service

[sgray]

Thanks for bringing this article to our attention. Obviously BNSF has experience co-habitating with mass transit in other parts of the country and brings these engineering "best practices" to the table--I'm glad to see them pushing for better rail/road intersect designs here...it will pay off in the long run.

[blangtang]

Yeah, the funny thing is that a couple weeks ago there was a story that said Norman had dropped the ball in not having a 2nd rail plan ready for the TIGER grant. The story is evolving.

[kevinpate]

If memory serves, and I concede it may not, Norman did not proceed recently because what they had was not 'shovel ready' and that was a criteria for submissions by the particular deadline.

[king183]

Well, that was the (false) excuse given by Norman's mayor--that it wasn't shovel ready. The real reason was that they simply weren't prepared to submit the grant information to the feds--they had no idea what they were doing and belatedly realized they didn't know how properly write the grant in order for it to stand a chance.

BNSF demanded the change to the underpass in order to keep their trains running. The second track will be for their trains, not a commuter rail, and will be used while the underpass is being constructed and the original track is out of commission. It will also only be a small section of second track--just in the immediate area of construction. The City of Norman fought the idea of adding a second track and only recently gave up when BNSF said the whole project would be stopped if they didn't get the track for their trains, which makes sense.

That's not to say the second track could later be expanded and converted to a commuter line. But commuter rail opportunities are not the reason for that added track.

[goldbug]

Well, that was the (false) excuse given by Norman's mayor--that it wasn't shovel ready. The real reason was that they simply weren't prepared to submit the grant information to the feds--they had no idea what they were doing and belatedly realized they didn't know how properly write the grant in order for it to stand a chance.

King183, the real reason *was* that the Norman route isn't shovel ready--a requirement to qualify for the grant money.

PLANSIT explains it well in the thread over in the Norman forum: http://www.okctalk.com/norman/19003-...tml#post255516

[Urban Pioneer]

Well, that was the (false) excuse given by Norman's mayor--that it wasn't shovel ready. The real reason was that they simply weren't prepared to submit the grant information to the feds--they had no idea what they were doing and belatedly realized they didn't know how properly write the grant in order for it to stand a chance.

BNSF demanded the change to the underpass in order to keep their trains running. The second track will be for their trains, not a commuter rail, and will be used while the underpass is being constructed and the original track is out of commission. It will also only be a small section of second track--just in the immediate area of construction. The City of Norman fought the idea of adding a second track and only recently gave up when BNSF said the whole project would be stopped if they didn't get the track for their trains, which makes sense.

That's not to say the second track could later be expanded and converted to a commuter line. But commuter rail opportunities are not the reason for that added track.

I'm not sure that agree with that. What I heard was that the space was for the future expansion of commuter rail and the possibility of the future (High Speed) rail. I heard this in a discussion with the right people in the room. Infact, they went as far to say that ODoT was involved and that pretty much any future under pass would be designed with this extra space in mind to accommodate these possibilities.

Also, the OKC City Council resolution centered a great deal of their discussion and resolution language around the Downtown to Tinker corridor. That corridor is likely to happen first.

[king183]

I'm not sure that agree with that. What I heard was that the space was for the future expansion of commuter rail and the possibility of the future (High Speed) rail. I heard this in a discussion with the right people in the room. Infact, they went as far to say that ODoT was involved and that pretty much any future under pass would be designed with this extra space in mind to accommodate these possibilities.

Also, the OKC City Council resolution centered a great deal of their discussion and resolution language around the Downtown to Tinker corridor. That corridor is likely to happen first.

Urban, you're not sure you agree with it??? Well, it's fact. And it's been reported in the Norman Transcript a couple different times the past few weeks (if I had the links, I'd post them). The expansion for a second rail was a demand made by the railroad company so that they could keep the trains running as previously scheduled. The city opposed that demand, but ultimately decided to give in. The railroads then backed off their demand and the construction is back on scheduled without the expanded track.

I think someone on this thread may have an axe to grind against the Norman mayor. From what I've heard, she's pretty sharp and Norman has a quality city staff.

You're right, SoonerGuru. I do. I have an axe to grind because everything she has done since she was mayor has suffered from her incompetence (and that of the City Council's. I'm not some partisan either. When she was first elected, I thought she'd do a fine job because, as you said, she's very bright. Unfortunately, that didn't translate into her being a good leader. And it's not just me, it's a very large portion of the city, especially some people who supported her 3 years ago, who have been greatly disappointed. So much so, it's the topic of a lot of speculation as to whether she will run for re-election knowing much of her supporters have turned against her. So, I'd like to know who you're talking to about her "quality staff" because I strongly suspect it's a member of her staff itself. Anyway, you don't need to take my word for it. Just come to Norman and talk to anyone down here. Ask about the North Base TIF, downtown revitalization, the new library, the Open Meetings Act, Porter Avenue, or any other number of issues she's fumbled.

[king183]

Urban, you're not sure you agree with it??? Well, it's fact. And it's been reported in the Norman Transcript a couple different times the past few weeks (if I had the links, I'd post them). The expansion for a second rail was a demand made by the railroad company so that they could keep the trains running as previously scheduled. The city opposed that demand, but ultimately decided to give in. The railroads then backed off their demand and the construction is back on scheduled without the expanded track.

I now see that we are discussing two different issues--that of the expanded track and that of the space for potential future light-rail on the platform. My apologies for the confusion.

[Pete]

Very exciting.

Linking downtown OKC, downtown Norman, the main campus and south campus would be a boon to all those areas and may help kickoff more cross-fertilization of start-up businesses, research and generally retaining the creative class.


But also sad that we already had a similar system have a century ago and now we have to slowly and expensively recreate the whole darn thing.

[gmwise]

Very exciting.

Linking downtown OKC, downtown Norman, the main campus and south campus would be a boon to all those areas and may help kickoff more cross-fertilization of start-up businesses, research and generally retaining the creative class.


But also sad that we already had a similar system have a century ago and now we have to slowly and expensively recreate the whole darn thing.

I bet Sally Kern will proclaim against it..lol

[soonerguru]

I think someone on this thread may have an axe to grind against the Norman mayor. From what I've heard, she's pretty sharp and Norman has a quality city staff.

[gmwise]

I think downtown to see the OU-Research Park, to the downtown to Tinker makes since.
I would like to see a north to south in OKC, or is it possible to have a transit bus or rail along NW Expressway to OU Health Center- Research Park.

[gmwise]

I think downtown to see the OU-Research Park, to the downtown to Tinker makes since.
I would like to see a north to south in OKC, or is it possible to have a transit bus or rail along NW Expressway to OU Health Center- Research Park.

OMG!!

since =sense


lol good grief

[Platemaker]

It would seem that a NW Expressway commuter line wouldn't have as much red tape associated with it as those that would take the cooperation of multiple municipalities.