Tulsa, Not OKC, Is Getting a Hard Rock

[dismayed]

I know this has been discussed in the Tulsa forum, but in case you didn't see it the Tulsa metro area (on Cherokee Nation land) is getting a Hard Rock Hotel and Casino (links below).

The intent of this post isn't to announce it but is really to discuss... why? I'm happy for the Tulsa area and think it's great, I will certainly be traveling up the road to see it, but why is it that since almost day one we have been talking about having a Hard Rock Cafe in Bricktown but could never really pull it off, but the Cherokee Nation somehow managed to swing a deal. What is it that they did that we have not? Is it purely a matter of the casino gambling, or is it something else? What could we have done differently to have seen this developed in the OKC area?

Thoughts?

Hard Rock Casino Tulsa (2009)

Hard Rock Hotel & Casino | About Us | Press Release Detail

[Pete]

First of all, this is just buying the Hard Rock brand for a complex almost completed.

Secondly, it is merely a franchise of their name.

And third, the Hard Rock brand is now owned by the Seminole Tribe.

[pokemike]

First of all, this is just buying the Hard Rock brand for a complex almost completed.

Secondly, it is merely a franchise of their name.

And third, the Hard Rock brand is now owned by the Seminole Tribe.

This is correct. It will not actually be a Hard Rock, the Cherokees just bought the name rights for their place. I know some folks at the Seminole Gaming in Florida who are none-too-happy about this. They're pissed that Hard Rock is seeling it's name to just anyone right now (including Kansas City Motor Speedway's bar), when the Seminoles were supposed to have exclusive rights.

[Steve]

Pete's right. Hard Rock Cafe, by the way, is a 1990s definition of a city achieving big league success. The brand follows tribal casinos, and locations are no longer determined by urban hipness, etc.

[Pete]

One of the original, signature Hard Rock Cafes (the one in the Beverly Center with the Cadillac sticking out of it's facade) closed here in Los Angeles and barely a soul noticed.

[Stinger]

One of the original, signature Hard Rock Cafes (the one in the Beverly Center with the Cadillac sticking out of it's facade) closed here in Los Angeles and barely a soul noticed.

Same thing happened in Dallas (Although not really a signature HRC)

[progressiveboy]

Same thing happened in Dallas (Although not really a signature HRC)

Actually that is true, it closed about 2 years ago on McKinney Avenue, however they just had there grand reopening on July 15 in Victory Park. The HR officials stated they missed being in Dallas and wanted to re enter the market

[evh5150]

Same thing happened in Dallas (Although not really a signature HRC)

i think Dallas has a new one that opened close to Victory Park.

[bluedogok]

One of the original, signature Hard Rock Cafes (the one in the Beverly Center with the Cadillac sticking out of it's facade) closed here in Los Angeles and barely a soul noticed.

The one here in Austin closed in early 2006, it was pretty much deserted every night on Sixth Street while all the other bars were open. The thing that killed them here was it was supposed to be a rock club but never had any live music.

[Midtowner]

The one here in Austin closed in early 2006, it was pretty much deserted every night on Sixth Street while all the other bars were open. The thing that killed them here was it was supposed to be a rock club but never had any live music.

The few times I've been to one, it has just been so-so casual dining with some so-so memorabilia on the walls.

It's a washed up brand. It's found new life in trashy Indian casinos. Good for it, I guess.

[dmoor82]

Do you really want to go into what OKC is getting/has and what Tulsa is not? cuz we can and it would be mindblowing!!!1

[Stinger]

Yeah, but if they get the WNBA too, it's a wash.

[dmoor82]

Yeah, but if they get the WNBA too, it's a wash.

LOL!!! that is funny,WNBA is Good for Tulsa it brings the city's national image status up! and having a Hard Rock Hotel/Casino,while cool is hardly something to brag about,give me an NBA team and a 925 ft tower over a faded brand casino any day of the week!!!!!Tulsa is outdoing OKC??????? LMFAO!

[fuzzytoad]

LOL!!! that is funny,WNBA is Good for Tulsa it brings the city's national image status up! and having a Hard Rock Hotel/Casino,while cool is hardly something to brag about,give me an NBA team and a 925 ft tower over a faded brand casino any day of the week!!!!!Tulsa is outdoing OKC??????? LMFAO!

you forgot about the banjo museum

[dmoor82]

you forgot about the banjo museum

And you forgot about the Dave and Busters!!!!,thats what the title of this thread should be-Tulsa is getinng a D&B,not OKC!!!!LOL I think SOME Tulsan's are still bitter about OKC getting an NBA team,and it being called the Oklahoma city thunder and not the Oklahoma -------!Yeah I said it so what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fuzzytoad]

And you forgot about the Dave and Busters!!!!,thats what the title of this thread should be-Tulsa is getinng a D&B,not OKC!!!!LOL

yeah, nevermind, you obviously missed the point.

[dismayed]

For the malcontents who refuse to read what I originally posted, the point was that the city of Oklahoma City and/or Bricktown leaders, in articles in various newspapers going back a decade, said that they were actively trying to get a Hard Rock in Bricktown. The question wasn't about whether or not early 21st Century tastes have evolved, it was simply why, if we wanted one, we didn't get one, but another city in Oklahoma, that did want a Hard Rock, did get one.

[fuzzytoad]

For the malcontents who refuse to read what I originally posted, the point was that the city of Oklahoma City said it wanted a Hard Rock and early posts in The Oklahoman that interviewed Bricktown leaders said they were actively trying to get a Hard Rock into town. The question wasn't about whether or not early 21st Century tastes have evolved, it was simply why, if we wanted one, we didn't get one, but another city in Oklahoma, that did want a Hard Rock, did get one.

Probably something to do with the gambling aspect of it.

I can't believe there's no casinos in OKC, especially in or around Bricktown and I believe I read on this forum somewhere that it was the fault of whatever group of people control Bricktown.

[adaniel]

Probably something to do with the gambling aspect of it.

I can't believe there's no casinos in OKC, especially in or around Bricktown and I believe I read on this forum somewhere that it was the fault of whatever group of people control Bricktown.

I don't think it has anything to do with that. It is probably because most of OKC lies in land that was never assigned to any one tribe. On the flip side, Tulsa straddles both the Creek and Cherokee Nation. Hence why several large casinos lie right outside the metro (Riverwind, Firelake Grand) but Tulsa have casinos within its city limits.The "Racino" at Remington Park has gambling only because the racetrack was bleeding money, but feel free to correct me if that's not accurate.

As someone who used to frequent the Hard Rock Cafe in Dallas when I was a kid, that brand has slowly gone downhill as well as Planet Hollywood. There hasn't been a new cafe in the US in quite some time and, as has been mentioned, the hotels only open up with adjoining casinos.

[Steve]

Probably something to do with the gambling aspect of it.

I can't believe there's no casinos in OKC, especially in or around Bricktown and I believe I read on this forum somewhere that it was the fault of whatever group of people control Bricktown.

More clarification is needed here: a state compact that allowed Remington Park to create a Racino and the tribes to do Class II casinos is what prohibits any other casinos from opening shop in Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City was part of the unassigned lands. And that's why a tribe can't set up a casino here - they can only do so on tribal land.

[fuzzytoad]

More clarification is needed here: a state compact that allowed Remington Park to create a Racino and the tribes to do Class II casinos is what prohibits any other casinos from opening shop in Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City was part of the unassigned lands. And that's why a tribe can't set up a casino here - they can only do so on tribal land.

ahh, thanks!

[dalelakin]

More clarification is needed here: a state compact that allowed Remington Park to create a Racino and the tribes to do Class II casinos is what prohibits any other casinos from opening shop in Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City was part of the unassigned lands. And that's why a tribe can't set up a casino here - they can only do so on tribal land.

Can't unassigned land be reassigned as tribal land though?

[OKCNDN]

Can't unassigned land be reassigned as tribal land though?

Tribes can buy land anywhere just like any business. But they must declare if that land will be used for gaming before the purchase is made.

Only their assigned lands can be used for gaming. Any new land purchased that was not in their original assigned land cannot be used for gaming.

[Steve]

For the malcontents who refuse to read what I originally posted, the point was that the city of Oklahoma City and/or Bricktown leaders, in articles in various newspapers going back a decade, said that they were actively trying to get a Hard Rock in Bricktown. The question wasn't about whether or not early 21st Century tastes have evolved, it was simply why, if we wanted one, we didn't get one, but another city in Oklahoma, that did want a Hard Rock, did get one.

Dismayed, I don't want to come off as arogant and a know-it-all here and I hope people don't think that after reading this. I've been the guy covering this beat now more than a dozen years, and your comments about the city/Bricktown pursuing a Hard Rock Cafe simply is not true. There were never (to my knowledge) any public pronouncements about trying to become home to a Hard Rock Cafe. I challenge you to produce a legitimate newspaper story (Oklahoman, JR, Gazette) that says otherwise.
I'm not accusing of lying. But I do think you've fallen into the trap of buying into an urban legend.
For what it's worth, I'm betting the addition of the Academy of Contemporary Music to Bricktown - something you won't find in any other urban entertainment district in America - will have far more impact than a Hard Rock Cafe.

[dismayed]

Dismayed, I don't want to come off as arogant and a know-it-all here and I hope people don't think that after reading this. I've been the guy covering this beat now more than a dozen years, and your comments about the city/Bricktown pursuing a Hard Rock Cafe simply is not true. There were never (to my knowledge) any public pronouncements about trying to become home to a Hard Rock Cafe. I challenge you to produce a legitimate newspaper story (Oklahoman, JR, Gazette) that says otherwise.
I'm not accusing of lying. But I do think you've fallen into the trap of buying into an urban legend.
For what it's worth, I'm betting the addition of the Academy of Contemporary Music to Bricktown - something you won't find in any other urban entertainment district in America - will have far more impact than a Hard Rock Cafe.

You know, it is interesting. I've gone through some old Oklahoman articles, lots of Journal Record archives, well known Oklahoma blog posts, and even dug deep through the Internet archives at archive.org.

It looks to me like the Hard Rock idea started being thrown around when developers Moshe Tal and David Cordish hit the scene. Lots of talk about their past development in Baltimore that included a Hard Rock and a Barnes and Noble, and lots and lots of speculation about similar developments here, if their plan moved forward. Journal Record is a good source for that. I do consider them Bricktown developers, just like I do so many others who have proposed ideas for housing and other things downtown but, like Tal, have eventually failed and moved on.

Perhaps that idea "officially" did die with them leaving Bricktown. But the interesting thing is how many times "Hard Rock" is mentioned by folks around OKC. It seems that everyone constantly compares any development in Bricktown to the Hard Rock Cafe. I found loads of posts by random people comparing Toby Keith's to a country Hard Rock Cafe when it first opened. I even found a jab at Hard Rock on your own blog when comparing it to the School of Rock opening downtown. References are everywhere. I can even clearly remember a TV news anchor, shortly after major development started in Bricktown, closing a news segment about future developments with something like "...perhaps even a Hard Rock Cafe."

Perhaps it is an urban legend, I guess no one would know unless someone were to call up Moshe and ask for a clarification on what he was wanting to do 10 years ago, but certainly both the general populace and the professional media alike have played into it.

If no one in Bricktown ownership ever wanted or tried to get a Hard Rock, okay fine, no big deal then glad to know it wasn't that Tulsa had a better deal or something like that. I guess in that scenario the only thing that surprises me is, with a clearly wide base of support for such an idea, why no one ever seriously considered it....