The Abortion Issue

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Carried over here from the Political Arena - The Obama Administration's First 100 Days.

. . . However, the modern day pro-abortion crowd doesn't care about that because their movement is based on the eugenics movement of the late 1800s through the 1940s. In fact, the entire modern day Democrat party is.

Kerry, I am tolerant and accepting of individuals that, for what ever reason, feel a personal need to avail themselves of the legal medical procedure of aborting a pregnancy and I choose to not sit in judgment of their decision. Further, I don't know a single individual who claims to be "pro-abortion". Most of the people I know would much rather that there were fewer abortions, more adoptions and better family planning education, but feel that abortion is a difficult personal medical choice, not a matter for government to dictate.

Characterizing everyone that disagrees with you on this issue as "pro-abortion" merely serves to continue an argument and will never lead to a discussion. I simply can't understand how anyone can describe themselves as "pro-life" and still support the death penalty and other state sponsored killing. Perhaps if we start by simply acknowledging our personal reverence for every life, we can find some common ground.

Michael Smith

Pray For World Peace . . . pass it on

[MadMonk]

I guess I'm "pro-innocent life". I have a big problem with ending the life of an innocent human, be they 2-weeks from conception or wrongly convicted on death row.

[Prunepicker]

I'm anti-abortion. Not pro-life.

Abortion is the ultimate display of selfishness.

[Insider]

Abortion is the ultimate display of selfishness.

So if you (if you are female) or one of your friends/daughter/mother is raped and gets pregnant, it would be selfish of them to have an abortion? You are totally clueless if you truly meant what you said. You can disagree with abortion, so don't have one. You are in no position to tell ANYONE that they can or can't have one. It is their choice, whether you agree or not!

[Caboose]

So if you (if you are female) or one of your friends/daughter/mother is raped and gets pregnant, it would be selfish of them to have an abortion? You are totally clueless if you truly meant what you said. You can disagree with abortion, so don't have one. You are in no position to tell ANYONE that they can or can't have one. It is their choice, whether you agree or not!

So if you (if you are female) or one of your friends/daughter/mother is raped and gets pregnant, it would be selfish of them to kill the newborn infant? You are totally clueless if you truly meant what you said. You can disagree with killing newborn infants, so don't have do it. You are in no position to tell ANYONE that they can or can't kill newborn infants. It is their choice, whether you agree or not!

[Prunepicker]

You are in no position to tell ANYONE that they can or can't have one. It is their
choice, whether you agree or not!

Murder is also a choice. That doesn't make it right.

[Karried]

Abortion is the ultimate display of selfishness.

Not even close.

Ask Kaylee Anthony.

Oh wait, you can't ask her...her selfish mother killed her because she got in the way of her 'single' life.

I think murder and suicide are the ultimate selfish acts.

[Prunepicker]

Not even close.

Ask Kaylee Anthony.

Oh wait, you can't ask her... her selfish mother killed her because she got in the
way of her 'single' life.

I think murder and suicide are the ultimate selfish acts.

Abortion is murder.

[Insider]

Abortion is murder.

How can you murder something that can't survive on its own (first and second trimester)?

[Prunepicker]

How can you murder something that can't survive on its own (first and second trimester)?

By killing it.

By the way, a baby can't survive on it's own after birth.

[PennyQuilts]

How can you murder something that can't survive on its own (first and second trimester)?

The same way you murder someone who has had a terrible accident and needs life support to give them time to heal.

[onthestrip]

The same way you murder someone who has had a terrible accident and needs life support to give them time to heal.

So euthenasia is wrong too? When every doctor says that someone has no chance of recovery you still would never pull the plug? That just sounds idiotic to me. Allow someone to pass on with dignity. If I were ever in a vegetative state, the last thing I would want is to drag on a slow painful death and be a constant and horrible burden on my family and friends.

[GWB]

Not even close.

Ask Kaylee Anthony.

Oh wait, you can't ask her...her selfish mother killed her because she got in the way of her 'single' life.

I think murder and suicide are the ultimate selfish acts.

A selfish mother kills her three year 3 year old daughter.

A selfish mother hires an abortionist to kill her pre-born child.

No difference.

[OKCMallen]

We can argue the science and morality all day, but I fall on the side of pro-choice SHEERLY because the government shouldn't have ANY hand in this debate. Let people decide their own spirituality and morality on such an issue.

(Besides, you can't deny the fact that abortions are often beneficial to society as a whole. )

[Midtowner]

(Besides, you can't deny the fact that abortions are often beneficial to society as a whole. )

I'm guessing some folks will deny it anyhow.

As for me, I'm kind of happy where we're at legally. Casey seems to be as fair a framework for the competing rights and powers as could possibly be conceived.

[Caboose]

We can argue the science and morality all day, but I fall on the side of pro-choice SHEERLY because the government shouldn't have ANY hand in this debate. Let people decide their own spirituality and morality on such an issue.

(Besides, you can't deny the fact that abortions are often beneficial to society as a whole. )

We can argue the science and morality all day, but I fall on the side of pro-choice SHEERLY because the government shouldn't have ANY hand in this debate. Let people decide their own spirituality and morality on such an issue.

(Besides, you can't deny the fact that killing newborn babies are often beneficial to society as a whole. )

[CuatrodeMayo]

It hinges (for me) on the question of when life begins. (In my mind) the most logical point is conception. At that point the woman's right to her body is superceeded by the child's right to continue to exist as a human life. To terminate the life is homocide, IMO.

[traxx]

I simply can't understand how anyone can describe themselves as "pro-life" and still support the death penalty and other state sponsored killing.

I have never understood this viewpoint. Why someone would think it was okay to kill a baby in the womb but want a murderer to live. You're equating Tim McVeigh with an unborn child whose future is yet to be seen. McVeigh made his choice. The unborn haven't.

(Besides, you can't deny the fact that abortions are often beneficial to society as a whole. )

I hope this was said in jest. But this aligns with the whole argument that women should abort due to rape or incest.

Ask John Cox, one of the Republican candidates for president in the last election process, how he feels about it. You may not agree with his politics, but he was conceived in rape but he has gone on to try to serve and make his country better.

Or what about Frederic Douglass? He believed that he was a product of rape and may very well have been.

There are many others out there who were products of rape who are thankful for their life and have gone on to live normal or exceptional lives.

[OKCMallen]

I hope this was said in jest. But this aligns with the whole argument that women should abort due to rape or incest.

No, it wasn't at all. There are probably more than a few solid arguments for allowing abortions so as to benefit society. Unwanted children are a financial drain on individuals and the community as a whole. For instance, the woman that just had octuplets after already having 6 kids. Prime example that allowing some of those fetuses to be aborted would be better for EVERYONE involved in a hardcore economic sense.

[Caboose]

No, it wasn't at all. There are probably more than a few solid arguments for allowing abortions so as to benefit society. Unwanted children are a financial drain on individuals and the community as a whole. For instance, the woman that just had octuplets after already having 6 kids. Prime example that allowing some of those fetuses to be aborted would be better for EVERYONE involved in a hardcore economic sense.

So why not just kill the new born octuplets since it would be better for society?

[traxx]

No, it wasn't at all. There are probably more than a few solid arguments for allowing abortions so as to benefit society. Unwanted children are a financial drain on individuals and the community as a whole. For instance, the woman that just had octuplets after already having 6 kids. Prime example that allowing some of those fetuses to be aborted would be better for EVERYONE involved in a hardcore economic sense.

Aborting babies is not the way to get unemployed single mothers to stop having babies. Stopping the government and society from giving handouts to these people based on how many mouths they have to feed is the answer to stopping that.

I've known some couples who couldn't have babies and have adopted. Many end up going overseas because the wait in the US is so long. How about instead of aborting these babies, they get put up for adoption? We solve two problems right there. These children aren't unwanted, they're just wanted by different people. Someone wants them. It just may not be the biological parent.

I guess I just take any crime against children personal since I'm a father of four and I see how precious children can be.

But I can see you point about allowing abortions to benefit society. If your parents had aborted you we'd all be a lot better off. How did that feel? Someone else making the decision of whether you live or die for you.

[Prunepicker]

I have never understood this viewpoint. Why someone would think it was okay to
kill a baby in the womb but want a murderer to live.

That's why I'm anti-abortion and not pro life. If somebody has been proven by a
jury to deserve the death penalty, then I'm all for it.

I believe each child, some say fetus, should have the right to appear before a jury
before the death sentence is given. THEN they should have the right to appeal
whatever decision is made.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

I have never understood this viewpoint. Why someone would think it was okay to kill a baby in the womb but want a murderer to live. You're equating Tim McVeigh with an unborn child whose future is yet to be seen. McVeigh made his choice. . . . .

I wasn't equating the life of an unborn child with anything traxx, nor did I suggest that criminals be set free if you are also confused about my view of that. What's the point in twisting what someone posts to try and justify your argument? And, BTW, McVeigh was an unborn child pretty early on. If he had been aborted; no Murrah bombing . . . so would abortion be OK if we could read the tea leaves and know what lies in the future. What is the difference between snuffing Tim as a fetus or as a convicted mass murderer.

Simply put, I don't believe that I or the state has the right to take another life for any reason except in the rare case of self defense . . . there are lots of scenarios that describe those situations and no point in going into that black hole here.

In case you hadn't heard the vast majority of the rest of civilization on this planet also opposes the death penalty and uses life in prison as the maximum punishment.

IMO there are rare cases where abortion is appropriate, but not as birth control. But, that's none of the state's business either.

You either believe that life is sacred or you don't . . . how can there be some half-way position where one life has value and another doesn't? Isn't the teaching of about every religion pretty much that god, however you conceive of god, makes the call not man.

Michael

Pray For World Peace . . . pass it on

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

I was just throwing the female part in there in case someone didn't know. Just to clarify. I have a ******.

Well thank God it's not a clown car!

The whole issue would be made moot, I believe, if we passed laws to facilitate getting "unwanted" children to parents who DID want them. Start with declaring that anything growing inside a woman belongs to her and her alone. Then set up a system where in any woman who finds herself not wanting to deliver a baby (for whatever reason) can register that she will have a kid ready to deliver in x months and that it will be available to the highest bidder or the person who impresses her most favorably. Intersted parties can contact her and they can make any deal that is agreeable to both parties. No need whatever for gov't intervention. If you feel that there is just something obsene about that thought, please go back and think it all the way through, backward, forward and sideways and I think you will see that it will do what all of our laws, bureaus, committees, and so forth claim to be trying to do, but MUCH more elegantly. The fact that such a system is needed is very sad and somehow obsene, but the way things are is the alternative. This would be a huge blessing to those who hate the thought of any abortions in that they could put their money where their mouths are and with no hassle. So if the gov't will set up the system and get back and let it roll, everyone on both sides can be contented knowing that there were no longer any unwanted children in the country.

WTH? That's about the worst idea I've ever heard in this debate on any forum...Ever. BIDDING ON BABIES?

[bandnerd]

Well thank God it's not a clown car!

Yeah, I really just wanted to say ******.

I wasn't trying to insinuate that my being a woman somehow makes me immune or whatever the above poster was trying to say...forgive me, I haven't been awake long...but, I think it does give a different perspective when you yourself could be in a situation where abortion could be something that would have to be considered. If it could never happen to you, sure, it's easy to say it's always wrong.

It kind of goes along with assisted suicide for me. Sure, people say it's wrong, and legally it's wrong...but if you've ever watched someone suffer and completely lose themselves and they want to die but can't...well, your vision suddenly becomes a little more gray.