$465 million in aid to Oklahoma includes lightrail!!!

[ssandedoc]

http://newsok.com/465-million-expect...adlines_widget


"One of those projects could include money for a light rail line between Tinker Air Force Base and Bricktown, Ridley said."



$465 million expected for Oklahoma projects from stimulus plan
BY JULIE BISBEE
Published: January 30, 2009
Buzz up!

The proposed stimulus package being discussed by Congress could include up to $465 million for Oklahoma projects, state Transportation Director Gary Ridley told members of a House transportation committee Thursday.
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Oklahoma has a list of 130 projects ready for construction as soon as federal money becomes available.

One of those projects could include money for a light rail line between Tinker Air Force Base and Bricktown, Ridley said.

Under the legislation passed by the U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday, states would receive money under a funding formula.

Under that formula, Ridley said the state could see anywhere between $460 million and $465 million in federal stimulus dollars.

"It’s all yet to be determined,” Ridley said. "It’s difficult to request funds for things when it’s still not settled.”

The U.S. Senate is expected to take up the measure next week. In the meantime, engineers working for the state Transportation Department continue to get projects designed and "shovel ready,” Ridley said.

Ridley said Oklahoma’s ready-to-go projects amount to about $1.1 billion.

Phil Tomlinson, director of the Turnpike Authority, also spoke to transportation committee members Thursday, updating them on progress made on improving travel stops along the turnpike.

One travel stop near Lone Chimney on the Cimmarron Turnpike is expected to be updated by spring. Five other sites are on the list for improvements to restaurant, fuel and restroom facilities.

Tomlinson said the turnpike continues to have ample room for motorists, but traffic is building on sections of turnpikes in Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

In the next five to six years, sections of the Creek and Kilpatrick turnpikes will need to be expanded, he said. Engineering studies will show the exact need.

"We’ve never had capacity problems because we’ve always been a rural system,” Tomlinson said. "But that’s fixing to change. We’re already seeing capacity issues on sections in Oklahoma City and Tulsa.”


I'm excited!

[PennyQuilts]

This is a stimulus package - not a wish list. These people need to be reading up on what was tried in the Great Depression - what worked and what didn't. If you don't know and you haven't read up on it - learn from history before making the same arguments that "sound" good but haven't worked - ever.

We're personally in pretty good shape because husband will have a nice pension and we have our house - plus the kids are grown and educated and so far, so good on the health. But yesterday, I took a look at a graphic illustration of the amount of expenditures and, literally, I came up out of my chair. It is so far out of line from what ever has been done, before, in magnitude. I honestly cannot imagine how this will keep from utterlying destroying the value of the money we DO have.

Plus, I spoke to several people, by coincidence, who are being put out of business by government regulations - especially those contained in two new bills. One runs a scenic rail road and two are homecrafters. Those types of businesses are the backbone of this country and all have turned a profit in previous years.

The first bill requires you to be certified to accept credit cards and proves you do not store any credit card data in an unsecured manner. So now they have to find a "certified examiner" to come in and certify they have no computer or server in the station only a debit machine, that does not store credit card holder info, so the bank can continue to allow them to accept credit cards. EVERY place that accepts credit cards falls under this new rule you must be certified that you do not need to be certified.
The scenic railroader live in Pennyslyvania and was already told the closest "certifier" under the new law examiner is in Illinois. Essentially, the bill places their ability to make ticket sales in jeopardy. They pay $35,000 a year for liability insurance with a bonded $40 grand deductable. They are getting out of the business this year because they can't make any money. Their business was a going concern until this happened. They haven't lost much business, even with the downturn because they have a family - type business that has families coming back every year to ride the train to the north pole, see santa, leaf peeping, etc.

The other bill has to do with protecting our children from lead paint - it was the pat your legislators on the back bill that arose from the freakout people went through when the stuff came over from China. This is a link to a recent forbes article about the law regarding lead paint, etc. It is long but well worth the read:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/...cx_wo_0116olson.html

In a nut shell, it is going to put a ton of home businesses out of work if not changed. Moreover, my friend with the scenic railroad had to close her gift shop for the reasons in the Forbes article. I seriously urge you to read it it - it is well written and lays it out in a way that is clear and easy to understand.

My friends aren't going belly up because of a lack of customers. But unlike in the Great Depression, we have a mass of governmental regulations that make it hard for good old Americans to strap on their boots and work their way out - even if the jobs are there. We've become anti business and no matter how hard you want to work or how much of an entreprenuer you are, the strangle hold of governmental regulation is going to make it all the harder to recover. We are in deep ****.

[TaoMaas]

This is a stimulus package - not a wish list.

ECO, for the time being, give me a "high five" on that one. I totally agree. We can go back to feuding afterwards, if you want. lol Our current situation keeps making me think of the scene in "It's a Wonderful Life" where there's a run on the bank and James Stewart is trying to divide up his remaining assets. He's asking people, "What do you WANT?" vs "What do you NEED?". I think that's where we are in America. For my tastes, there's too much "want" flying around and not enough addressing of "need".

[hipsterdoofus]

Lots of traffic from Tinker to Bricktown and vice versa?

[Chicken In The Rough]

Lots of traffic from Tinker to Bricktown and vice versa?

I had the same thought this morning. I am thrilled to possibly get some funding for a rapid transit/rail system in OKC. But, BT-Tinker seems like a line that could later. We should start with the core lines, the add the feeder lines as the budget and demand allows.

We have seen several light rail proposals in the past that included Fair Grounds to Airport lines. I always thought these seemed wasteful and detrimental to the overall system. If we spend $400 million on this line that very few will ride, the rest of the system will be put in jeopardy. Critics will argue that we built a state-of-the-art rail line and no one rode it. The real problem is that this state-of-the-art rail line connects two points that draw few commuters.

I see the same potential problem with the BT-Tinker line. Maybe I'm dead wrong, but I don't see this line being used that much this early in the game. I think Downtown-Penn Square, Downtown-Capitol/Med Center, or a 23rst St. line would be much more widely used. These lines could then be expanded and new feeder lines attached.

I would love to start with a major system connecting Tinker, Norman, and Edmond with major points in OKC. But I think we need to plan more carefully. Start with smaller lines that will maximize ridership, then grow the system to include these other points.

[mcgrawsdad]

I had the same thought this morning. I am thrilled to possibly get some funding for a rapid transit/rail system in OKC. But, BT-Tinker seems like a line that could later. We should start with the core lines, the add the feeder lines as the budget and demand allows.

We have seen several light rail proposals in the past that included Fair Grounds to Airport lines. I always thought these seemed wasteful and detrimental to the overall system. If we spend $400 million on this line that very few will ride, the rest of the system will be put in jeopardy. Critics will argue that we built a state-of-the-art rail line and no one rode it. The real problem is that this state-of-the-art rail line connects two points that draw few commuters.

I see the same potential problem with the BT-Tinker line. Maybe I'm dead wrong, but I don't see this line being used that much this early in the game. I think Downtown-Penn Square, Downtown-Capitol/Med Center, or a 23rst St. line would be much more widely used. These lines could then be expanded and new feeder lines attached.

I would love to start with a major system connecting Tinker, Norman, and Edmond with major points in OKC. But I think we need to plan more carefully. Start with smaller lines that will maximize ridership, then grow the system to include these other points.

30000 workers and armed services personnel in one convenient location. Many of the bricktown and downtown entertainment venues are frequented by personnel stationed at tinker. Just imagine if they could go enjoy themselves and not have to worry about a designated driver, taxi, etc. Oklahoma City is unique because of the massive amount of sprawl and a large scale light rail system simply will not work in OKC. It would have limited success if it concentrates on the largest employment and commercial centers.

[Spartan]

Lots of traffic from Tinker to Bricktown and vice versa?

No.

[scootinger]

As everyone else has said, this doesn't sound very useful...unless Midwest City has something remarkable in the works (which they don't to my knowledge) aside from a cookie-cutter big-box shopping center. I wonder how much Midwest City spent on kickbacks for the people working on this?

What happened to the light rail that was supposed to go between Moore (I think?) and Edmond? That seems like a much better route.

[metro]

East Coast, why are they going out of business proactively if the legislation hasn't even been passed? Shouldn't they wait to see if it passes first or gets modified? Surely if there is only one inspector for every few states, it would not be feasible for someone to keep up with the new demand for his services this proposed law would create.

[PennyQuilts]

East Coast, why are they going out of business proactively if the legislation hasn't even been passed? Shouldn't they wait to see if it passes first or gets modified? Surely if there is only one inspector for every few states, it would not be feasible for someone to keep up with the new demand for his services this proposed law would create.

The law is passed and goes into effect February 10. All the inventory on hand has to be tossed. Any of the new inventory has to meet the higher standards and if you don't think that is going to jack up the price to the point where it is not worth it to stock, think again.

As for the credit card - a small business isn't going to gamble that they won't be noticed. They have no funds to defend themselves in court and if something goes bad with the credit card, they are toast. Small business simply don't have the resources to defend themselves if charged. Even if they "win," they still have attorney fees and that could take years to get through the courts.

[metro]

This line has been talked about for years. I don't think "Bricktown" is the major key to this line. I believe the thought is to get people from Tinker to DOWNTOWN in general and vice versa, not so much give tourist rides to Bricktown for the troops/workers. It would also make it a viable option for people who work at Tinker to be able to live the urban lifestyle without having to rely on a car. I agree, it may not be the best starter line, but those are the two biggest employment centers in the city.

[TaoMaas]

This line has been talked about for years. I don't think "Bricktown" is the major key to this line. I believe the thought is to get people from Tinker to DOWNTOWN in general and vice versa, not so much give tourist rides to Bricktown for the troops/workers. It would also make it a viable option for people who work at Tinker to be able to live the urban lifestyle without having to rely on a car. I agree, it may not be the best starter line, but those are the two biggest employment centers in the city.

Man, I'd like to see some figures on how many folks are commuting from downtown to Tinker. I just don't think that's where our priority ought to be if we're going to build this thing.

[hipsterdoofus]

Man, I'd like to see some figures on how many folks are commuting from downtown to Tinker. I just don't think that's where our priority ought to be if we're going to build this thing.

Exactly - people work at tinker, people work downtown - I don't think there would be much in the way of traffic on this line at all. Sounds like a nice waste of money when we can't even get I-40 done in a reasonable amount of time (would ODOT be in charge of this too?)

[LakeEffect]

Exactly - people work at tinker, people work downtown - I don't think there would be much in the way of traffic on this line at all. Sounds like a nice waste of money when we can't even get I-40 done in a reasonable amount of time (would ODOT be in charge of this too?)

ODOT wouldn't be in charge - a local authority of some sort would be formed. I've been told that many of the people moving into the new developments around Downtown/Bricktown are engineers and high-paid personnel from Tinker, so yes, there would be commuter traffic all the way. The line would also pick up many of the people who commute in regularly, maybe from park & ride lots. The lines and waits to get into Tinker during shift are horrendous, or so I'm told. Taking light rail in would help some people avoid that, and also reduce some of the congestion.

[OKCMallen]

This line has been talked about for years. I don't think "Bricktown" is the major key to this line. I believe the thought is to get people from Tinker to DOWNTOWN in general and vice versa, not so much give tourist rides to Bricktown for the troops/workers. It would also make it a viable option for people who work at Tinker to be able to live the urban lifestyle without having to rely on a car. I agree, it may not be the best starter line, but those are the two biggest employment centers in the city.

This. Give me a route down 235 to downtown and I'd take it on a fairly regular basis for work AND play.

[soonerguru]

The positive takeaway here is that the Director of ODOT is even mentioning a rail proposal. Why that one? Because they already have plans submitted. I still believe, and I may be very wrong, that OKC is missing a real opportunity with the stimulus package. I certainly hope I'm wrong.

[PLANSIT]

Not meaning to burst any bubbles, but the "light-rail project" spoken of in this article is really just $4 million for partial track upgrade between Bricktown and MWC/Tinker. It does not include bridge work, stations/platforms, trains, or at-grade crossing features; all of which are years from implementation, and therefore, would not conform to the spirit of the economic stimulus bill's "shovel ready" proclamation.

[mecarr]

I think this is a great idea. It's nice Oklahomans will see some of the stimulus which is badly needed.

[PennyQuilts]

Oklahoma is in terrific shape compared to most of the rest of the country. This is just pork using the economy as an excuse to get something they wanted, anyway.

[TaoMaas]

Oklahoma is in terrific shape compared to most of the rest of the country. This is just pork using the economy as an excuse to get something they wanted, anyway.

I agree with that....BUT, gas is also below $2/gal right now. When OKC hurts is when gas goes to $4 or $5/gal because we're so spread out physically. Should we prepare now for what we know is coming eventually (gas going back up)?

[danielf1935]

If it smells like a pig, walks like a pig, oink's like a pig, it's "PORK"

I don't see how an improved rail line can stimulate the economy !!!!!!

[mecarr]

If it smells like a pig, walks like a pig, oink's like a pig, it's "PORK"

I don't see how an improved rail line can stimulate the economy !!!!!!

Someone has to build the light rail system, maintain it and operate it. This creates jobs.

[danielf1935]

Okies are spoiled when it comes to their cars. I live in Norman and occassionally use the bus for transporation, even when gas was near 4.00 there never was more than 5--6 people riding the bus.

[TaoMaas]

Okies are spoiled when it comes to their cars. I live in Norman and occassionally use the bus for transporation, even when gas was near 4.00 there never was more than 5--6 people riding the bus.

I can agree with that, somewhat. We ARE a bit spoiled. So...now what do we do? I read an article a year or two ago where the author decided to ride the bus for a while just to see what changes it made in his life. If I remember right, it was taking him about 1 1/2 hours to get to work each day! I can think of a number of options that I would consider prior to just accepting that length of commute every day.

[soonerguru]

We've discussed this issue dozens of times. The bus system would get more riders if the bus system worked for riders schedule wise. It's a chicken and egg deal. I rode the bus for several months every day and it was almost always full. Occasionally, I had to stand and wait for a seat. This was before the ridiculously high gas prices. It works in other cities. It would work here, too, if the routes and schedules work for people.