Pregame prayer

[southernskye]

The Thunder has kept a tradition that began with the New Orleans Hornets when they were given shelter here for two seasons after Hurricane Katrina. It’s a pregame prayer.
Hornets owner George Shinn said one of the first things he noticed about our city after his team arrived was the religious nature of so many people. Thus a prayer became routine before Hornets games. Since the NBA was new to many Oklahomans, most folks probably figured a prayer was routine everywhere else in the league.
Not so. The brief prayer ritual was mentioned last week by a Minneapolis writer after the Timberwolves played the Thunder, our new and permanent team.
So how does the NBA get away with a prayer and other institutions, particularly schools, either do not or cannot?
You won’t find prayers being said before the high school football playoff games this week. It’s separation of church and state, of course.
The government, through the taxpayers, pays for public school athletic facilities. The NBA, in contrast, is a private organization.
Yet the government, through the taxpayers, paid for every dime that went into the Ford Center. We don’t see a difference.

Now I know I won't ever be going to a game.

[Luke]

I thought you went to church?

[PennyQuilts]

For many, sports is their religion.

[Martin]

yet the government, through the taxpayers, paid for every dime that went into the ford center.

so... organizations like... say... billy graham should be barred from using the ford center because it was paid for by tax payers? the thing is, the okc thunder is a private entity that pays to use a publicly funded space. last i checked, this is a free country... if you don't like prayer, don't pray. if you're offended by prayer, complain to the team. if you don't get satisfaction from that, then don't go... seriously... every public display of religion is not a 'separation of church and state' issue.

-M

[Luke]

so... organizations like... say... billy graham should be barred from using the ford center because it was paid for by tax payers? the thing is, the okc thunder is a private entity that pays to use a publicly funded space. last i checked, this is a free country... if you don't like prayer, don't pray. if you're offended by prayer, complain to the team. if you don't get satisfaction from that, then don't go... seriously... every public display of religion is not a 'separation of church and state' issue.

-M

Exactly.

route66gal, only non-religious events can happen at a taxpayer funded building?

Why not represent all of your taxpayers who funded the building by having a wide assortment of events that cater to all lifestyles and religions?

[Luke]

But seriously, you mentioned you go to church. How can a prayer offend someone who goes to church?

[southernskye]

But seriously, you mentioned you go to church. How can a prayer offend someone who goes to church?

ME??

No I've never stated on here that I go to church nor have I ever said I don't go.

[Luke]

ME??

No I've never stated on here that I go to church nor have I ever said I don't go.

Whoa... I'm sorry. For some reason, I read your name and thought route66gal. I apologize profusely. No offense meant.

Sorry.

[southernskye]

Rather I go to church or not isn't the point. This is a Taxpayer funded building owned by the city. If i want to pray or hear prayers, I can go to church.

Christianity is NOT the only religion in this country.

[Bobby821]

Rather I go to church or not isn't the point. This is a Taxpayer funded building owned by the city. If i want to pray or hear prayers, I can go to church.

Christianity is NOT the only religion in this country.

Correct, But Christianity is the only TRUE REAL religion in this country though.

[southernskye]

Correct, But Christianity is the only TRUE REAL religion in this country though.

It's no more real than any other religion.

[Luke]

It's no more real than any other religion.

...says your religion.

Like your religion, some religions claim their Truth is the only Truth.

[southernskye]

...says your religion.

Like your religion, some religions claim their Truth is the only Truth.

Are you Jewish or something ?
and yes i am baiting you .

My faith or lack of faith is immaterial. But if it make you judgemental folks feel better, I belong to the Methodist Church but I don't go regularly.

[OKCMallen]

Correct, But Christianity is the only TRUE REAL religion in this country though.

Oh come on, get over yourself. No need to attempt to offend people.

[Bobby821]

Oh come on, get over yourself. No need to attempt to offend people.

Offend how? It's the truth there is only 1 true God and thats the God that created us and this world and everything in it. All other gods are false gods and are worthless. The people who worship idols like Buda or a stick of wood are worshiping false gods. There is only 1 True God and he sent his son to die on the cross for us so that we may have our sins forgiven and be able to enter into Heaven and be with him for ever and ever.

[southernskye]

Offend how? It's the truth there is only 1 true God and thats the God that created us and this world and everything in it. All other gods are false gods and are worthless. The people who worship idols like Buda or a stick of wood are worshiping false gods. There is only 1 True God and he sent his son to die on the cross for us so that we may have our sins forgiven and be able to enter into Heaven and be with him for ever and ever.

[OKCMallen]

Offend how? It's the truth there is only 1 true God and thats the God that created us and this world and everything in it. All other gods are false gods and are worthless. The people who worship idols like Buda or a stick of wood are worshiping false gods. There is only 1 True God and he sent his son to die on the cross for us so that we may have our sins forgiven and be able to enter into Heaven and be with him for ever and ever.

Because the zombie son of himself that says we're going to hell if we don't symbolically (and literally if you're Catholic) cannabalize his body makes WAY more objective sense than Buddha or a stick of wood. Just sayin' for argument's sake.

Besides, if it were such plain ol', easy-to-see truth, then no faith would be involved. Always baffles me how people are proud of having faith and say you need faith are very quick to assert the absolute concrete truth of their beliefs as well. The two, in the purely objective sense, are mutually exclusive.


Mods? I smell a thread move/lock?

[Lord Helmet]

Offend how? It's the truth there is only 1 true God and thats the God that created us and this world and everything in it. All other gods are false gods and are worthless. The people who worship idols like Buda or a stick of wood are worshiping false gods. There is only 1 True God and he sent his son to die on the cross for us so that we may have our sins forgiven and be able to enter into Heaven and be with him for ever and ever.

See, but that's all pure speculation and blind faith. I don't see anything out there that's proof of one religion's viability over another. Heck, there isn't any proof that ANY god, false or otherwise exists.



As for the pregame prayer...the Thunder are a privately held organization, so they can pray all they want, however, I'm not sure it belongs in a building paid for with public funds. A lot of people aren't religious, and their beliefs should be respected just as much as the most devout Christian's.

Honestly, it doesn't bother me either way, but it might some.

[Dave Cook]

Offend how? It's the truth there is only 1 true God and thats the God that created us and this world and everything in it. All other gods are false gods and are worthless. The people who worship idols like Buda or a stick of wood are worshiping false gods. There is only 1 True God and he sent his son to die on the cross for us so that we may have our sins forgiven and be able to enter into Heaven and be with him for ever and ever.

Oh Lord....

Bobby....has it ever occured to you that religion is nothing more than cultural philosophy? A group of ideas shared by others as to our existance?

You know....if were born in Thailand, you would have been a Buddhist. If you were Japanese, shintoism. India? Hindu. Saudi Arabia? Islam.

You're a Christian simply because you were born here and raised to believe it's true.

Trust me.....Christianity is just as silly as the others.

And if the rest of the NBA thinks we're a bunch of rednecks because we pray at games....well.....maybe it's because we are.

[PennyQuilts]

A lot of people don't like prayer in pubic places on principal, regardless of whether they are church goers.

Me? I'm not a church goer but I LIKE prayers in public places!

[kevinpate]

The FC was/is erected by public funds. However, it is rented/leased to various groups, and that includes the owner group which provides the pro level roundball entertainment locally.

A pre-game prayer is 100% not a church/state issue in this set of circumstances. A private group paid to use a facility for their purpose for a specified period of time. Any such renter who wishes to begin with a prayer, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, interfaith, or yes something quite Pagan, that's their choice.

They can not compel you to participate, but they absolutely can include such an activity in their program.

Given the majority position of Christian influences within our citizenry, the Thunder pre-game prayer existing comes as no surprise to me, nor do the many faith based programs which rent the center each year. Many of those can truly pack the house with believers.

Pray to whomever you pray to, or don't pray at all if that is your preference and custom, but separation church/state is simply a non-starter as a basis for the objection.

[Richard at Remax]

"Thanks for letting us be here and for good health, lets hope for a safe game for both teams, thank our troops for protecting us, ect"

This is basically what you hear 99% of the time. It doesn't matter what religion is up there saying these things or if there was no pre game prayer.

Fact is we should all be thankfull and if you are going to bitch about a 12-20 second prayer of thanks, then don't come and watch it on tv.

[Blangdon]

How one's prayer can be offense to anyone is beyond me. I simply do not understand why anyone would be afraid to experience another custom, culture, etc. It's time to open our minds. It doesn't help to simply say people need to be more open when all we do is open one door and close another. Lighten up people...

[JakeZula]

As an avid believer in the separation of church and state, I'm no fan of public prayer. However, I fully agree that the NBA as a private entity should be able to do whatever they want with the space they're renting. So the taxpayers paid for the Ford Center? So what? Musicians that come through here are allowed to express their political and religious beliefs. If a country musician wants to sing Kum-by-yah and praise Jesus, let him. If someone else wants to come play a concert and hail Satan, let him. Our public contribution to the Ford Center has the purpose of generating more revenue for OKC. Whether it's Billy Graham or Marilyn Manson bringing in those dollars makes no difference to me.

[bretthexum]

Interesting. I didn't realize this only happened here.