Is ADD caused by neglect?

[Toadrax]

The girl in the window - St. Petersburg Times

Pretty interesting article that has been floating around the net the last few days. It is really sad what happened to this girl, but it makes me wonder if there are "half-feral" children living out there.

I know a lot of parents don't have time to sit down to talk and interact with their children.. so many people are concerned with financial support and all that.

Edit: Oh ya, don't watch the videos unless you want to be sad.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

No. It's caused by diet.

[AFCM]

No. It's caused by diet.

Studies have shown that supplementing with fish oils can be more effective than taking Ritalin when trying to address the symptoms or cause of ADD and ADHD. I don't think diet is the only factor, but evidence that exists relating nutritional deficiencies and ADD is certainly hard to ignore.

You take a lack of essential fatty acids, throw in some refined white sugar, and you're going to have a heathen on your hands.

[Midtowner]

Studies have shown that supplementing with fish oils can be more effective than taking Ritalin when trying to address the symptoms or cause of ADD and ADHD. I don't think diet is the only factor, but evidence that exists relating nutritional deficiencies and ADD is certainly hard to ignore.

Can you cite those studies? Vitamin companies tend to invent studies out of thin air in order to sell things like fish oil. Or they'll claim that their product "helps" when research might point that way, but be inconclusive or only "help" a small part of the sample.

Other "studies" have shown what these vitamin companies apparently are claiming to be bunk.

From WebMD:

The exact cause of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is not known. But inherited genetic factors are likely responsible. Ongoing research is focused on identifying genes that cause a person to be susceptible to ADHD.

Using various imaging tests, researchers have been able to observe the brain at work. They have found a possible link between ADHD and:

* Brain structure.
* The function of chemicals in the brain that help regulate attention and activity (dopamine and norepinephrine).
* Differences in function of some of the areas of the brain that affect attention and impulse control.

Also, research shows that a mother's use of cigarettes, alcohol, or other drugs during pregnancy may increase the risk for ADHD. Some studies suggest that exposure to lead may cause symptoms associated with ADHD.1

Although many parents believe that foods with sugar and food additives make their children more hyperactive, these foods have not been shown to cause ADHD. In a comprehensive review of research, the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) found that restricted diets seemed to help only about 5% of children with ADHD, mostly either young children or children with food allergies.1 Other research has shown that sugar is not related to ADHD.2

Some people have misconceptions about ADHD, such as that children with ADHD are lazy or dumb. Discuss with a health professional any questions or concerns you have about these issues.

I do have ADHD. I was first diagnosed by a board certified specialist in developmental behavioral pediatrics. That diagnosis was confirmed by a psychiatrist who specialized in pediatric and adolescent psychiatry -- a little bit firmer than your standard school guidance counselor/family doctor diagnosis.

It's real. I have all the symptoms of ADHD. I also was subjected to just about every treatment in the book, including having a clinic determine what food allergies I had and putting me on a special diet. In the end, at least until I was 14 or so, I took medication.

After 14, I decided that this was a chronic issue and I didn't want to be medicated my whole life, so I went off of it. I did struggle in high school with the things ADHD kids struggle with: organization, deadlines, etc. Eventually, I did what everyone with any sort of problem like this should do -- I overcame it.

I made it through undergrad alright and am now on track to have my J.D. next year.

Real studies, i.e., studies using brain scans rather than mere conjecture and guesswork point to the fact that the ADHD brain works differently. This is most likely caused by a different sort of balance of chemicals and the way things move between the neurotransmitters. It is a very real condition, and fortunately, it's very treatable.

I have no doubt it's probably overdiagnosed, but for some, it's quite real.

-- or you could just ignore all the (real) research out there and believe whatever the hell you want to.. that the Earth was created in 7 days, that we all have Thetans attached to our souls which have to be removed by [expensive] auditing which can only be performed under the auspices of Tom Cruise's church...

[Midtowner]

And as to the OP. Is ADHD caused by neglect? That's absolutely laughable -- at least in my case. I was anything but a neglected child. My parents played freakin' Mozart into my mother's uterus while I was in utero. I had learned my alphabet prior to being 12 months old. I was reading before preschool. These are not exactly the signs of a neglected child.

I was still a little Hun though

[AFCM]

Can you cite those studies? Vitamin companies tend to invent studies out of thin air in order to sell things like fish oil. Or they'll claim that their product "helps" when research might point that way, but be inconclusive or only "help" a small part of the sample.

One of the first studies was conducted by PhD psychology student Natalie Sinn, of the University of South Australia, and was not funded in any way by supplement companies. Later, a study at Oxford found the same results, indicating the essential fatty acids helped treat the symptoms of ADD/ADHD.

I'll try to find more links regarding the actual studies, but these are some links supporting the reports.

Fish oil helps attention deficit

Fish Oil More Effective than Ritalin for ADD / ADHD | Science Blog

Fish Oil for ADHD?

Attention Deficit Disorder: Consume Fish Oil, Curb Violence and Aggression

A Natural Cure For Attention Deficit Disorder

Researchers probe ADD-fish oil link - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

ADD / ADHD Omega 3 fish oil

Fish Oil for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder/Attention Deficit Disorder predominant inattentive type - User ratings & reviews - Revolution Health

Fish oil 'calms children better than Ritalin' | Mail Online

Omega-3 Fish Oil and ADD in Children

There are plenty more if you search.

Lastly, seeing as how fish oil supplements -- at about $0.03 a pill -- don't really compare to the patented pharmaceutical drugs in price, I have to wonder why a company would spend so much money to produce such a study when:

1. The fish oil cannot be patented, thus a particular company cannot control the market, meaning...
2. The fish oils are extremely cheap, making the reasons to produce such a study, in the first place, worthless

In summary: I'd be willing to bet a pharmaceutical company is more likely to produce "studies" regarding their patented drug rather than a few fish oil supplement companies. Considering a fish oil pill costs three cents a pop and can be produced by any of their competitors, a particular company doesn't stand to make that much capital by funding such a study.

Of course, you can believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. I've been taking fish oils for years and have personally experienced greater mental and physical health than I ever have before. My experiences may differ, but I feel completely changed from before.

[Midtowner]

Please! More quality links like this!

Fish oil helps attention deficit

Fish Oil More Effective than Ritalin for ADD / ADHD | Science Blog

The above contains two postings of "fact." The first by someone named "marshmellowcreme" and the second by "anonymous." They state "facts," but those facts are asserted without a bit of context or evidence to support them.

Fish Oil for ADHD?

Dr. Weil is pretty well respected, but even he admits that Ritalin can be effective, just that it's overprescribed. I agree with him there.

Also, I take some issue with the manner in which "improvement" in the different groups is quantified. How does one see a "40-50% improvement" in ADHD symptoms? It would be interesting to read the methodology of the study.

[quote][quote]Attention Deficit Disorder: Consume Fish Oil, Curb Violence and Aggression

While this study is interesting, it has nothing to do with ADD. I say interesting because when given to two different populations, 26% in one case, 34% in another. That's a bit too much of a variation to be able to draw much from it.

I don't have much of a problem with the premise though -- healthier people probably act out less. People who eat crappy food probably don't have the same inhibition control.

Let's not confuse just plain 'ol inhibition control with ADHD or ADD. Those are two very different things.

[quote]A Natural Cure For Attention Deficit Disorder

You're confusing a pitch for fish oil (notice the abundance of links to a vitamin site) with actual research. Her best evidence? A bunch of anecdotal claptrap about the non-diagnosis of a disease which probably wasn't being diagnosed in her home country during her childhood. Amazing. My father didn't know any ADHD people growing up either! This is a bunch of pseudoscientific nonsense.

Researchers probe ADD-fish oil link - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Inconclusive. Wow, it "helped." How is "helped" quantified?

It ain't.

ADD / ADHD Omega 3 fish oil[/

Fish Oil for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder/Attention Deficit Disorder predominant inattentive type - User ratings & reviews - Revolution Health

Fish oil 'calms children better than Ritalin' | Mail Online

Omega-3 Fish Oil and ADD in Children

There are more links, but I don't have the attention span to address them all. Too bad I didn't get to read the link from the Daily Mail. Now THERE is a quality publication (right up there with the Weekly World Standard).

Lastly, seeing as how fish oil supplements -- at about $0.03 a pill -- don't really compare to the patented pharmaceutical drugs in price, I have to wonder why a company would spend so much money to produce such a study when:

1. The fish oil cannot be patented, thus a particular company cannot control the market, meaning...
2. The fish oils are extremely cheap, making the reasons to produce such a study, in the first place, worthless

In summary: I'd be willing to bet a pharmaceutical company is more likely to produce "studies" regarding their patented drug rather than a few fish oil supplement companies. Considering a fish oil pill costs three cents a pop and can be produced by any of their competitors, a particular company doesn't stand to make that much capital by funding such a study.

Of course, you can believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. I've been taking fish oils for years and have personally experienced greater mental and physical health than I ever have before. My experiences may differ, but I feel completely changed from before.

None of these things have anything to do with whether or not it actually works. Fish oil is cheap, but it's also not very effective at curing cancer.

It seems the pseudoscientific nutrition community thinks that fish oil is the newest snake oil. Liver giving you trouble? Throw some fish oil on it. Just rub it into your belly. Let the skin absorb it.

It probably will also increase my manhood.

[PennyQuilts]

ADD can be influenced by too much television at an early age while the brain is being hardwired. Changing the TV screen about every 20 seconds (it doesn't really matter the subject matter) disrupts the developing brain's ability to maintain attention for longer periods. End result are a lot of children who can't concentrate.

Terrible story you posted. So sad.

[betts]

ADD isn't a disease or disorder. It's a personality type. My theory is that is was a survival advantage in men who were hunters. If you're easily distracted by novel stimuli, you're more aware of dangers around you. That's why it's more commen in males, IMO. ADD is only a problem because our school system forces kids to sit behind desks and pay attention to boring teachers six to eight hours a day, which is not how most little boys' brains are programmed.

[PennyQuilts]

ADD stands for Attention Deficit Disorder. ADD is a general term frequently used to describe individuals that have Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder without the hyperactive and impulsive behaviors.

I wrote about TV and brain circuitry but that is not something everyone agrees with and it certainly isn't the reason in every case. They've studied it six ways from Sunday but none of the things they can find seems to apply in all cases. There seems to be a genetic component because a lot of people in families may have it. It's been theorized that it can be caused by bad chemicals, problems in pregnancy or birth, viruses, or anything that disrupts normal brain development (my TV concern would be one example). Betts is right - more boys are affected by it than girls but I can tell you that I see it in girls all the time in my court cases. I don't necessarily agree that it is a personality type - I've never heard that nor have I heard that it is only a problem with school. The kids I work with are climbing the walls in many situations having nothing to do with school. That being said, it is common to not treat medically in the summertime when kids are out of school. It certainly impacts a child's ability to sit still.

I was taught it was a developmental problem. If a child has ADD or ADHD it can be considered an "other health related condition," for the purposes of an IEP (Individual Education Plan) - that is what they do for kids who need special services. A child could be found to be "emotionally disturbed," but just having a personality disorder does not give rise to the right to special education services. ADD or ADHD, however, are common basis to get special education services.

[betts]

You can get services if a child has ADD, but I still believe it is almost always a problem with the school system, rather than the child. There is a bell-shaped curve for behavior as well as everything else. and the number of people diagnosed with ADD is far more than you would expect for two standard deviations from the norm. That tells me that too many children are being taught that there is something wrong with them, and teachers think you can give students a drug and they'll sit quietly behind a desk for hours. I think that's unnatural for a lot of kids and I don't like them being labeled as having a "health related condition" when I think it's perfectly normal. There are terribly functional adults with ADD who have learned to find jobs that allow them to use it as a help, not a hindrance. Our school systems do these kids a disservice, as well as any other child who is a kinesthetic learner. I'm a pediatrician, and this is one of my soapboxes....sorry.

[Toadrax]

My experience tells me that if you wait until a child starts school to deal with something like this, it is too late.

Have you ever stopped and consider how much focus and concentration it really takes to hold a conversation?

It may just go all hand in hand... a child no one talks to is mostly likely just watching tv and living like an animal or a small pet anyway.

[betts]

The child in this story does not have ADD. She was raised without human interaction, and that is so rare that it is really outside almost all diagnostic boundaries.

[Toadrax]

Right, but what about kids who only have halfass human interaction?

That happens all the time.

EDIT: Or to put it another way.. at what point of interaction do you go from being a normal healthy child to a girl in the story? I doubt it is one leap, there must be levels inbetween.

[solitude]

What a sad thing. Whew!

Toad, you edited your last post with a really profound thought. This child was at one end of the neglect spectrum, but you're right; there must be all different degrees of neglect, from incredible mistreatment to a benign neglect that mirrors how the parents were raised. We're seeing more and more of that, too. Intriguing to think about.

[betts]

It is intriguing to think about children with lesser degrees of neglect, but that sounds like something worthy of study. This girl has something closer to an autistic type disorder than ADD, and while I'm not suggesting that children with autism have been subjected to varying degrees of neglect by any means, if you were to extrapolate from this story, the assumption would be that neglect causes diseases in the autism spectrum, not ADD.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

There's also different kinds of neglect.

My sister and her husband are so emotionally neglectful of their children that I think it borderlines on abuse. She's a stay at home mom and her husband makes mad stacks of cash. The 11 year old is already a raging obsessive compulsive. She'll fold her napkin 12 times in a row before eating and repeat the same two steps on the stairs several times each time she goes up. Her older brother has the emotional range of a 5 year old and refuses to shower.

My sister insists that they're ADHD. No...They're attention starved because you sleep until 3 in the afternoon and ignore them when you're awake you retard.

My mom retired several years early to move down there and take charge. It's done wonders for them since.

[PennyQuilts]

No question that appropriate interpersonal interaction is essential for normal development. Children need it. I am not in a position to suggest that autism is the result of neglect but you can certainly see the difference in children who are cuddled, whose parents make eye contact with them, talk to them, etc. vs. those that are treated much like furniture.

The "other health related" language is federal language that schools and families tend to use as a wildcard to get special services when all the other defined categories don't fit and the child is still not thriving at school. What I frequently see are parents who want their child to be designated as a special needs child in order to get special services or avoid discipline for misbehavior. The legal battle I see most frequently in my practice is that the parent insists the child has ADD/ADHD and is entitled to accomodations, whereas the school insists that the child has a conduct disorder that does not give rise to special treatment.

I see where Betts is frustrated with the schools because her experience is that teachers want kids to sit down and be still so they encourage medicating normal male behavior. Betts probably has parents who are concerned and dedicated and her experience/perspective may be from a different angle than mine as a guardian ad litem (although I suspect we aren't really disagreeing on most points). What I typically see, unfortunately, are the dysfuctional. A lot of my parents did not properly parent their child and then send junior to school where he disrupts an entire classroom and makes it next to impossible to teach. So what Betts is calling typical male child behavior, I frequently see as typical male child behavior with the added component of poor parenting. Betts is calling it a personality deal and to a certain extent, I certainly agree with her - boy children are different in personality than the girls and OMG, are they a perpetual motion machine! No question. But "boys can be boys" without crossing the line into ADD/ADHD, in my opinion.

These days, corporal punishment is not an option, Junior has frequently not been civilized, time out has limited effectiveness for a preteen in the classroom. Maybe Betts is right - the teachers may be begging the parents to medicate the child so that he calms down enough that the other kids can be taught. Moreover, to take it a step further, with all the buzz on ADHD/ADD, a lot of teachers may have seen the difference that medication has made with some kids and think that one size fits all. Further, in a zoo-like environment, a child with ADD/ADHD may be much more likely to start acting out than he would back in the days when a classroom was a place of learning instead of a zoo.

Betts seems to be saying the ADD/ADHD is normal behavior in a boy. My experience is that boys may be labeled as ADD/ADHD when, in fact, they are simply boys with poor parenting or in a poor learning environment. I DO believe ADD/ADHD exists separately from just being normal male behavior. I've seen some kids who are just a mess - they are like the energizer bunny. But even with the population I work with, the ones who are really "out there" are very few. Most, in my opinion, are primarily highsprited and their parents haven't taken the time and energy to civilize them. They are in a constant state of frustration in the home because the child won't do what they are told when, in reality, the parents never took the trouble to discipline them when they were small. It is hard to suddenly start putting an eight year old in time out when up to that point, the parent just nagged them then lost interest while the child went ahead and did whatever it was they wanted to do, anyway. These parents have taught their children to ignore direction.

My own experience, back when I was teaching in the late 80's, was that I didn't see this problem all that much. As a teacher, it wasn't even on my radar. When I taught, there was generally 1-2 kids out of thirty who had smart mouths. Discipline wasn't much of a problem, at all. Plus, they had corporal punishment (never had to use it) and all it took was a threat to call mom or dad to get junior's attention.

The teachers (probation officers/social workers, etc.) I talk to, today, tell a completely different story. Half the class is hanging from the ceiling. The teachers are more likely to get screamed at by a parent when they call than any backup support. I wouldn't be surprised if the teachers ARE begging to have the kids medicated even when that particular child doesn't really need a medication intervention. Dunno.

[kevinpate]

During numerous years working with lads and lasses outdoors, I was told on several occasions how lil' timmie would be a handful or tiny tommie is going to be a picky picky eater or susie is very sensitive or baby billy won't let you get a moment's rest and other such well intentioned but oh so nonsensical misunderstandings of adults who knew precious little about their own children.

All in all, the timmie's thrived, the tommie's never starved, and to the one were not picky picky eaters, occasionaly a tad picky, but hey, it was camp food, sometimes I was too the susies of the realm played and played and almost rarely ever curled into fetal angst and the billy's were never quite so babyish and generally slept the best of all due to being tuckered out.

Oh yeah, and then there were the drowsy dans who are bears to get up ... not.

It's always fun to see youth when they get encouraged and are safely unleashed from the cages some adult minds construct around them.

There are indeed some medical conditions that are severe, but there are also a lot of attention starved and poorly encouraged youth out there, and sadly, quite a few made it to adulthood that way and began to birth their own as well.

A frequent question to someone who takes youth to the woods is along the lines of "who is that your put in my child's skin, I hardly recognize him or her.

Truth of the matter is, we're no magicians. We just turn 'em inside out and they shake loose the cobwebs. The sun, wind and rain take care of the rest of it.

[PennyQuilts]

Truth of the matter is, we're no magicians. We just turn 'em inside out and they shake loose the cobwebs. The sun, wind and rain take care of the rest of it.

That is lovely.

[Toadrax]

For the record.. I am not trying to say that people with autistic child neglected them.

I like what you had to say kevinpate, my family thought I was seriously retarded until I started school...

[bandnerd]

^ Addressing Mid's statements.

Yes, ADHD is real. It's overdiagnosed, IMHO, and as a teacher I see those that really do have it, and those who have been, in my opinion, misdiagnosed.

Then, sometimes, I meet the parents, and I understand.

Some kids act out to get attention...others act out because they literally cannot stop themselves.

Brain science is tricky.

[bandnerd]

Fish oil has Omega-3's, which are all the rage right now. Yes, it did help the cat's coats, because you were adding fat to their diet, which keeps their nails, skin, and hair healthy and shiny.

The same is true for people--we need fat in our diet, good fats, like olive oil and omega-3's. Some people have a hard time getting that in with their diet, so they take a supplement. I take a fish oil every morning along with my B-vitamin, and I feel better on days when I take it than when I don't.

Back to the original topic, I guess...

[bandnerd]

In Mid's case, I can speak for his diet--he eats well. I cook for him, and I cook good, healthy foods. He isn't lacking in his diet for much, if anything. And yet, the ADHD is still there.

I have my own problems, too, and despite my healthy diet, they remain. Healthy food helps, but it doesn't always fix everything for me.

However, I know plenty of people who complain about being tired, and cranky, and they eat horribly. I can see where you're going with this, AFCM, but I just don't think it's going to help everything.