Texas High Speed Rail

[Plutonic Panda]

I am going to keep a close eye on this one as I’m pretty excited for it. What an embarrassment for California if Texas really pulls it off but what a great first step for the country. If Texas really makes this happen, I believe if this model works we will see a domino effect around the country which could lead to a true revival of passenger rail around the country. I will keep this updated as much as possible.

Here is their website: https://www.texascentral.com/

[Plutonic Panda]

Some quick facts from their website:

“ Nearly 50,000 Texans, sometimes called “super-commuters,” travel back and forth between Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth more than once a week. Many others make the trip very regularly. The approximately 240-mile high-speed rail line will offer a total travel time of less than 90 minutes, with convenient departures every 30 minutes during peak periods each day, and every hour during off-peak periods – with 6 hours reserved each night for system maintenance and inspection.”

“ Capable of operating at speeds in excess of 200 miles per hour and moving passengers between Dallas and Houston in less than 90 minutes
Substantive, wide-bodied seats, arranged “two-by-two” and separated by an aisle, ensuring sufficient leg, head and elbow room with no “middle-seat squeeze.”
Choice of service levels, with quiet, work-friendly cabins and food and beverage options to fit your needs and budget.
Plentiful Wi-Fi and power outlets, so passengers can get down to business, read, enjoy a movie, talk or catch a quick nap.
Fares highly competitive with the cost of travel by auto or commercial air service
A variety of retail stores, restaurants and shops located in passenger stations, each with a distinctly Texas style of service provided by well-trained staff who are eager to please.
Departures every 30 minutes during peak travel periods, with passengers able to review schedules, select seats, purchase tickets, change travel plans, order on-board food and drinks, reserve rental vehicles at their destination and book onward travel connections online or via mobile apps.
Stations located with easy access to major roadways, connections to public transit options, and plenty of on-site parking.”

[Plutonic Panda]

The project is expected to cost around 12 billion USD and should break ground this year.

They will use Japan’s Shinkansen N700-S Train:

[Plutonic Panda]

Some conceptual renderings:

Dallas Station



Houston Station



There are more renderings on their website.

Hopefully Dallas and Houston can get on the ball with a major mass transit package to provide ease of access to this system without the need of a car.

[Plutonic Panda]

Also to alleviate traffic congestion along I-45 TxDOT is widening it to six lanes, IIRC. Hopefully I-45 gets extended to Tulsa soon.

Realistically it would be nice to see upgrades to Heartland Flyer so it could at least average around 110MPH. Given the troubles Amtrak has had getting the St. Louis to Chicago Line moving faster after spending a decade and billions of dollars and still aren’t able to make it travel faster than 80 MPH, I don’t have a lot of hope for Amtrak.

[gopokes88]

I’d be very surprised if it broke ground before 2025 or even at all.

[DKG]

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...igh-speed-fail

According to this opinion article, now projected cost at $19 billion by the Federal Railroad Administration. This isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[Plutonic Panda]

Damn shame if it doesn’t. If it didn’t work in California and Texas can’t do it either that isn’t good.

[mugofbeer]

Damn shame if it doesn’t. If it didn’t work in California and Texas can’t do it either that isn’t good.

I think it would have to be some sort of public-private partnership on the Federal level. In a perfect world, the Texas Triangle would just be a piece of a long-term nationwide plan.

[Plutonic Panda]

It seems like this project is moving forward though I won’t be too excited until it actually breaks ground.

The high-speed train that promises to transport passengers between Dallas and Houston in 90 minutes has been approved by the Federal Railroad Administration, according to Texas Central Railroad, the company in charge of the project.

The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Railroad Administration issued the two key rulings, which provide the regulatory framework and the environmental review for the high-speed train, that Texas officials were waiting on to move forward with the project, according to the company. The announcement was first reported by the Houston Chronicle.

Texas Central expects to start construction in the first half of 2021.The federal Surface Transportation Board still must approve the project before construction can begin.

- https://www.texastribune.org/2020/09...h-speed-train/

[Plutonic Panda]

If this thing really does happen it will be an absolute game changer for the entire country if it is successful and will likely launch HSR here. Meanwhile Oklahoma can’t even be bothered to improve its one and only rail line and our two major cities aren’t even connected by traditional rail. What a joke.

[Laramie]

Texans are very good about projections and getting things done. Predict this will get completed at a cost of $22 billion and rolled out by 2023.

You have two mega communities with in excess of 6.5 million each; good scenario for demand & supply.

[amocore]

Welcome to the 20th Century ! We are 50 years behind but that is a great project !

[Zorba]

This would be a cool project. I wish we could get better about funding and completing non-car/aircraft infrastructure. But we've also got to figure out how to get the cost of infrastructure down. We pay far more per mile than other countries and it really holds back needed infrastructure.

[Rover]

If this thing really does happen it will be an absolute game changer for the entire country if it is successful and will likely launch HSR here. Meanwhile Oklahoma can’t even be bothered to improve its one and only rail line and our two major cities aren’t even connected by traditional rail. What a joke.

HUGE difference in Texas and OK. Houston-Dallas connects two metros with approximately 12.75 MILLION people. Okc-Tulsa is 2.25. If you add population between the metros the chasm is even wider. The ability to spread infrastructure costs is wildly different. It’s like you playing H.O.R.S.E with Steph Curry. I know who I’m betting on.

[Plutonic Panda]

HUGE difference in Texas and OK. Houston-Dallas connects two metros with approximately 12.75 MILLION people. Okc-Tulsa is 2.25. If you add population between the metros the chasm is even wider. The ability to spread infrastructure costs is wildly different. It’s like you playing H.O.R.S.E with Steph Curry. I know who I’m betting on.

True but what frustrates me is we can’t even get conventional train service between the two cities. New Mexico was even able to build a passenger train line between its two cities which are smaller than OKC and Tulsa are respectively.

[gopokes88]

True but what frustrates me is we can’t even get conventional train service between the two cities. New Mexico was even able to build a passenger train line between its two cities which are smaller than OKC and Tulsa are respectively.

New Mexico also reduced service on the rail runner many times and will likely be permanently shut down post COVID.

Not a huge market for making a 40min drive 1.5 hour train ride.

[Plutonic Panda]

New Mexico also reduced service on the rail runner many times and will likely be permanently shut down post COVID.

Not a huge market for making a 40min drive 1.5 hour train ride.

Lots of rail lines are likely to be shut down for awhile. Bad move on NMs part to shut it and I bet it comes back down the road,

[Rover]

If this thing really does happen it will be an absolute game changer for the entire country if it is successful and will likely launch HSR here. Meanwhile Oklahoma can’t even be bothered to improve its one and only rail line and our two major cities aren’t even connected by traditional rail. What a joke.

HUGE difference in Texas and OK. Houston-Dallas connects two metros with approximately 12.75 MILLION people. Okc-Tulsa is 2.25. If you add population between the metros the chasm is even wider. The ability to spread infrastructure costs is wildly different. A credible argument must be based on realistic assumptions.

It’s like you playing H.O.R.S.E with Steph Curry. I know who I’m betting on.

[Rover]

True but what frustrates me is we can’t even get conventional train service between the two cities. New Mexico was even able to build a passenger train line between its two cities which are smaller than OKC and Tulsa are respectively.

Playing devils advocate....
We’ve had service to DFW for years and the ridership is pitiful. What makes us think OKC-Tulsa will even be that much? Subsidizing something that is used is one thing, but subsidizing something that isn’t used and doesn’t grow is quite another.

[Plutonic Panda]

Playing devils advocate....
We’ve had service to DFW for years and the ridership is pitiful. What makes us think OKC-Tulsa will even be that much? Subsidizing something that is used is one thing, but subsidizing something that isn’t used and doesn’t grow is quite another.

Transportation is a necessity and should be built for the greater good, not for profit. I wouldn’t call Heartland Flyers ridership pitful given the circumstances. Obviously it doesn’t touch NE corridor lines numbers. A broader system would put more riders on.

Alternative transportation options open up new opportunities for the state.

[RustytheBailiff]

Transportation is a necessity and should be built for the greater good, not for profit. I wouldn’t call Heartland Flyers ridership pitful given the circumstances. Obviously it doesn’t touch NE corridor lines numbers. A broader system would put more riders on.

Alternative transportation options open up new opportunities for the state.

Really? Someone needs to tell American Airlines that (among others)....

[Plutonic Panda]

Really? Someone needs to tell American Airlines that (among others)....

Airlines are the exception, IMO.

[Rover]

Transportation is a necessity and should be built for the greater good, not for profit. I wouldn’t call Heartland Flyers ridership pitful given the circumstances. Obviously it doesn’t touch NE corridor lines numbers. A broader system would put more riders on.

Alternative transportation options open up new opportunities for the state.

Since 2013, ridership has continued to slide and was off 20% through 2019. I'm not aware of any new opportunities that have been created by it. Please tell me what has been created or is even being proposed.

Don't get me wrong. I use the trains extensively in the northeast from Boston to Washington DC. I use them extensively in Europe. Would love to have those kind of trains and schedules, but we don't have the same kind of population dispersion and cultural propensity. Plus, in those places there is a historic population dispersement that is only now occurring in many parts of the US.

[Plutonic Panda]

Since 2013, ridership has continued to slide and was off 20% through 2019. I'm not aware of any new opportunities that have been created by it. Please tell me what has been created or is even being proposed.

Don't get me wrong. I use the trains extensively in the northeast from Boston to Washington DC. I use them extensively in Europe. Would love to have those kind of trains and schedules, but we don't have the same kind of population dispersion and cultural propensity. Plus, in those places there is a historic population dispersement that is only now occurring in many parts of the US.

I can’t give you specifics because I’m unaware of them but just speaking in generality that there are usually economic benefits that come with trains. I think it would help immensely if upgraded the line, extended it Tulsa and Newton, and had better frequencies running at least 4 trains a day. As Dan said, a stop in Denton would be prudent along with a stop in Thackerville at the casino.

If we double tracked the line, added 4 daily trains each way, maintained an average speed around 90-100MPH, I bet many riders would be induced. That also comes with new trains and again, extended service to Tulsa(and eventually connecting Tulsa to Kansas City and STL) and Newton.

If I were in charge I’d do this

Phase 1(2023-2025):

New Siemens diesel trains(I don’t know the model but I believe they are manufactured in Sacramento)

Revamped stations throughout the state

Added station at Winstar

Daily increase of trains to 4 each way

Double tracked in certain places along 60 percent of the line

Phase two(2025-2029):

Extension to Newton

New train line running to Tulsa down I-44 ROW

Heartland Flyer average speed 100MPH

Double tracked the entire route

Phase 3(2030s)

Extension from Tulsa to Missouri

Couple that with improvements to active transportation and improvements to local alternative transportation and I guarantee ridership increases. I don’t think any of that is unreasonable or unrealistic. Even all of that still doesn’t compare to Europe or the NE but provides for a decent alternative to car transportation.