Toll Every Interstate

[Just the facts]

I guess this is what it has finally come down to. There was no way the interstate system was sustainable and now we have a broken run down system that we can't afford to fix or replace but is needed to keep the wheels of the economy going. The interstate trust fund that was supposed to pay for it (using a growth model) funds less than half and will be out of money completely in a few years, which means not only do we have to fund the current half from the general fund, but we have to get the other half from the general fund as well PLUS new money for replacement and expansion, and the general fund is also woefully under funded. Not exactly a recipe for success.

Study proposes tolling interstate system to pay for reconstruction | McClatchy

[KenRagsdale]

This idea merits consideration. I've considered it for some time and thought, "why not?"

[Bellaboo]

This idea merits consideration. I've considered it for some time and thought, "why not?"

How about everyone here just write out a check for lets say for - $5,000.00 and send it on in....they'll take care of it for you. Why Not ?

[zachj7]

How big of an increase of gas tax would be required to keep up with the ongoing repairs? 18.4 cents is what it currently is. I travel a lot and would be against a per mile toll especially costing that much. I would start using state and local roads like the article suggests way more than an interstate.

[Teo9969]

How much is the infrastructure going to cost to add toll technology to the entirety of the Interstate system?

[BoulderSooner]

no thanks ..

[Teo9969]

Oh this works perfect then...Every car in the US will be obligated to have a receptor and the gvt can charge us whenever we drive on the Interstates. And it really will make the whole keeping tabs on all of the citizens so much easier !!

[BDK]

I say do it and exempt public transportation. It's more fair than a gas tax, which I imagine would affect blue collar workers disproportionately because of their reliance on pickups and older model vehicles.

[Bellaboo]

I pay a 'toll' everytime I put gas in the car.

[LakeEffect]

I pay a 'toll' everytime I put gas in the car.

That "toll" you pay doesn't nearly cover the amount required to keep our highway and road system up-to-date.

[Bellaboo]

That "toll" you pay doesn't nearly cover the amount required to keep our highway and road system up-to-date.

For another thread - but if the majority of each dollar collected wasn't used in gvm't admin, it'd go a lot further.

[LakeEffect]

For another thread - but if the majority of each dollar collected wasn't used in gvm't admin, it'd go a lot further.

I've never seen a study on that. Can you point me to one?

[Bellaboo]

I've never seen a study on that. Can you point me to one?

I used to work for the Feds - FAA - common knowledge back then. I used to watch 400 people at a qtr till 5:00 waiting in a line at the door until the clock struck 5:00 to go home. Not very productive on most levels.

[Just the facts]

I pay a 'toll' everytime I put gas in the car.

Yes - but you aren't paying enough. That is the whole problem and raising the rate won't help because cars are getting more fuel efficient and an increasing number aren't using gasoline at all.

Here is the easy solution. Eliminate about 75% of the interchanges and put toll booths (with an optional electronic system) on the remaining 25%. We have to do something because the current strategy isn't working.

Here is how I would reconfigure I-35

Close
Lindsey St (Norman)
Main St (Norman)
Robinson (Norman)
Flood (Norman)
Indian Hills (Norman)
SW 4th - including the service roads (Moore)
NW 12th (Moore)
NW 27th (Moore)
SE 89th (OKC)
SE 66th (OKC)
SE 44th (OKC)
SE 29th (OKC)
SE 25th (OKC)
Eastern (OKC)
NE 10th (OKC)
NE 36th (OKC)
Bryant (OKC)
NE 78th (OKC)
Wilshire (OKC)
NE 108th (OKC)
NE 122nd (OKC)
E Memorial (OKC)
E 33rd (Edmond)
E 15th (Edmond)
Danforth (Edmond)
Waterloo (Edmond)
E Seward (Edmond)
Division (rural exit)

Toll Booth
Highway 9 (Norman)
Tecumseh Rd (Norman)
SW 19th (Moore)
Shields (Moore)
SE59th (OKC)
Grand, Blvd (OKC)
SE 15th (OKC)
Eastern (OKC)
SE 23rd (OKC)
NE 50th (OKC)
Britton (OKC)
E 2nd (Edmond)
E. Covell (Edmond)



No Toll
I-240 (OKC)
I-40 West (OKC)
I-235 (OKC)
I-40 East (OKC)
I-44 (OKC)
I-44/Kilpatrick (OKC)

[rezman]

Yes - but you aren't paying enough. That is the whole problem and raising the rate won't help because cars are getting more fuel efficient and an increasing number aren't using gasoline at all.

Here is the easy solution. Eliminate about 75% of the interchanges and put toll booths (with an optional electronic system) on the remaining 25%. We have to do something because the current strategy isn't working.

Here is how I would reconfigure I-35

Close
Lindsey St (Norman)
Main St (Norman)
Robinson (Norman)
Flood (Norman)
Indian Hills (Norman)
SW 4th - including the service roads (Moore)
NW 12th (Moore)
NW 27th (Moore)
SE 89th (OKC)
SE 66th (OKC)
SE 44th (OKC)
SE 29th (OKC)
SE 25th (OKC)
Eastern (OKC)
NE 10th (OKC)
NE 36th (OKC)
Bryant (OKC)
NE 78th (OKC)
Wilshire (OKC)
NE 108th (OKC)
NE 122nd (OKC)
E Memorial (OKC)
E 33rd (Edmond)
E 15th (Edmond)
Danforth (Edmond)
Waterloo (Edmond)
E Seward (Edmond)
Division (rural exit)

Toll Booth
Highway 9 (Norman)
Tecumseh Rd (Norman)
SW 19th (Moore)
Shields (Moore)
SE59th (OKC)
Grand, Blvd (OKC)
SE 15th (OKC)
Eastern (OKC)
SE 23rd (OKC)
NE 50th (OKC)
Britton (OKC)
E 2nd (Edmond)
E. Covell (Edmond)



No Toll
I-240 (OKC)
I-40 West (OKC)
I-235 (OKC)
I-40 East (OKC)
I-44 (OKC)
I-44/Kilpatrick (OKC)

So lets say a plan like this was enacted. And lets say 10% of that traffic came off the interstates because drivers didn't like it and refuse to pay a toll for what their taxes should already be paying for, and was already built. I wonder what kind of impact this would have on the state highways, main arteries, and surface streets that will have to absorb the extra traffic.

[Dubya61]

So lets say a plan like this was enacted. And lets say 10% of that traffic came off the interstates because drivers didn't like it and refuse to pay a toll for what their taxes should already be paying for, and was already built. I wonder what kind of impact this would have on the state highways, main arteries, and surface streets that will have to absorb the extra traffic.

Perhaps all these people giving up the Interstates would look to some OTHER form of surface transportation. Maybe we'd get an RTA and/or JTF's OK Rail Network and people could start enjoying the commute. Maybe we'd start to look to locating our houses and jobs closer to each other. Maybe we'd start to focus on living in our neighborhoods more. Maybe that traffic would disappear more than dissipate to other roads.

[venture]

Perhaps all these people giving up the Interstates would look to some OTHER form of surface transportation. Maybe we'd get an RTA and/or JTF's OK Rail Network and people could start enjoying the commute. Maybe we'd start to look to locating our houses and jobs closer to each other. Maybe we'd start to focus on living in our neighborhoods more. Maybe that traffic would disappear more than dissipate to other roads.

Rolling out a RTA would be the big thing to happen with tolling all interstates. I personally would have no problem giving up my car to take the train in every day. It would give me an hour back each way of productivity that I can't get while driving. Many seem to miss that point.

[Just the facts]

Perhaps all these people giving up the Interstates would look to some OTHER form of surface transportation. Maybe we'd get an RTA and/or JTF's OK Rail Network and people could start enjoying the commute. Maybe we'd start to look to locating our houses and jobs closer to each other. Maybe we'd start to focus on living in our neighborhoods more. Maybe that traffic would disappear more than dissipate to other roads.

This ^

Just think how much money we would have to left over to spend on quality of life issues (or pay back the federal debt) if we weren't spending so much on transportation costs. Say what we want about Europe, but do you know why they work 1/2 the hours we do? Answer - because they can.

[hoya]

So lets say a plan like this was enacted. And lets say 10% of that traffic came off the interstates because drivers didn't like it and refuse to pay a toll for what their taxes should already be paying for, and was already built. I wonder what kind of impact this would have on the state highways, main arteries, and surface streets that will have to absorb the extra traffic.

There are not too many possibilities. It should be easy for us to examine them.

Either we really are paying enough money to maintain our interstates (as you said "what our taxes should already be paying for") or we are not. It must be one or the other. There is no third possibility. At the moment, it appears as though the second possibility is the correct one.

If we really are paying enough money with our taxes, then we need to determine where the inefficiency is that makes our roads fall into disrepair.
If we are not paying enough money, then we must either decrease services or increase taxes (I suppose we could allow it to slowly fall into dangerous disrepair). There is no other possibility.

We currently have a gasoline tax that is supposed to cover these sorts of repairs. However when that tax was established, it was based upon certain assumptions. It assumed a certain number of miles of interstate, a certain number of drivers, and a certain amount of fuel efficiency. We have since seen that those numbers were incorrect. Because people aren't driving as far, and because they're getting better gas mileage, and because we've built a lot more interstates over the decades, the tax is insufficient.

Are you paying a tax to maintain the interstate system? Yes. But it's the equivalent of paying $12 a month for your cable bill. It might have been sufficient in 1982, but it is not sufficient in 2013. Therefore we must either decrease services or increase taxes. If we decrease services, or charge a toll to the point that people abandon the interstate in favor of local roads, then some of the wear and tear from the interstate will be shifted to those local roads. This will require the exact same choices at the local level.

Not liking the choices we have ahead of us does not mean that the dilemma is not real.

What we should be doing is investing heavily in other types of transportation options, as well as exploring new funding sources for the interstate system. But that's going to require planning and investment.

[Richard at Remax]

Count me IN

[hoya]

Roads are incredibly expensive to maintain. Interstates especially so because the trucking industry relies on them so much. And that's the problem. Big trucks thrive because they're effectively getting a subsidized transportation system. Trucks cause a lot more damage to the roads than cars do. But even though they have worse gas mileage than cars, a gasoline tax doesn't reflect the higher amount of damage that these trucks cause to the roads.

It's the equivalent of splitting the check right down the middle when you go to a restaurant with a fat guy.

We're going to need to modernize our transportation network. That may include a lot more tolls on major interstates. Or how about just tolls for big trucks? Will they pass the costs on to their customers? Of course. But that may make other forms of transportation more affordable. More goods might be shipped by air, or by rail.

Regardless, it's time to tell the fat guy, "no, I'll just pay for my BLT and coke. You pay for your six cheeseburgers."

[Larry OKC]

Roads are incredibly expensive to maintain. Interstates especially so because the trucking industry relies on them so much. And that's the problem. Big trucks thrive because they're effectively getting a subsidized transportation system. Trucks cause a lot more damage to the roads than cars do. But even though they have worse gas mileage than cars, a gasoline tax doesn't reflect the higher amount of damage that these trucks cause to the roads.

It's the equivalent of splitting the check right down the middle when you go to a restaurant with a fat guy.

We're going to need to modernize our transportation network. That may include a lot more tolls on major interstates. Or how about just tolls for big trucks? Will they pass the costs on to their customers? Of course. But that may make other forms of transportation more affordable. More goods might be shipped by air, or by rail.

Regardless, it's time to tell the fat guy, "no, I'll just pay for my BLT and coke. You pay for your six cheeseburgers."

While it isn't proportionate to the amount of damage created by a truck compared to a passenger vehicle, the trucking industry already pays higher gasoline taxes per gallon than the rest of us do (along with the lower gas mileage which means they have to buy more fuel, which means more revenue)

The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel.

Also it depends on the kind of truck...

The U.S. Department of Transportation in its most recent Highway Cost Allocation Study estimated that light single-unit trucks, operating at less than 25,000 pounds, pay 150 percent of their road costs while the heaviest tractor-trailer combination trucks, weighing over 100,000 pounds, pay only 50 percent of their road costs.

Then there are probably things like taxes, fees etc that government entities collect from the trucking industry that are above and beyond the rest of us???

[Stew]

I never thought I'd see the day when the urbanistas tout a study done by the Reason Foundation. Mind BLOWN!

[rezman]

Yeah,. That's right. lets let the government dig a little deeper in out over taxed pockets. A little more won't hurt, right? .... You folks that want to be so free with everyone elses money should pay the tolls yourselves. How about an honest accounting of where ALL our tax dollars go before you volunteer more.

[HangryHippo]

Yeah,. That's right. lets let the government dig a little deeper in out over taxed pockets. A little more won't hurt, right? .... You folks that want to be so free with everyone elses money should pay the tolls yourselves. How about an honest accounting of where ALL our tax dollars go before you volunteer more.

We would have to pay the tolls ourselves if we drove on the roads...