University Town Center

[onthestrip]

There is? Where are these developments you speak of? Norman literally just had a mixed-use development with retail over housing changed to a giant strip mall. Housing isn't being built like you think it is in Norman, at least not apartments.

You think the demand for housing has just stopped? Theres apparently a market for lots of housing and apartments just down the road, behind Sams on Main St, where they plan to build hundreds of units.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I believe the report for the Bob Moore Farms area said that housing is the big need in Norman where commercial space is actually in over supply. Thats why they scaled back retail there and went with more housing.

[bison34]

I believe the report for the Bob Moore Farms area said that housing is the big need in Norman where commercial space is actually in over supply. Thats why they scaled back retail there and went with more housing.

But the exact opposite is happening where there are rumors of a new Target.

[jedicurt]

As the link from Jersey Boss shows, lots of housing it teed up for this district? Why so many so quickly? Because thats more ad valorem that will flow back to OU's arena. Build a bunch of apartments and welcome a high taxable assessed value from the county assessor and the money comes flowing back to pay for the arena and not to schools, county health, etc. If you think that 3,000 housing units would only be happening because of the arena then you are quite gullible. There is already a natural market for housing here without an arena.

so then the 600 million would be paid back quicker and thus the city would then start to get the money to do other things with it quicker than the 25 years? okay, cool!

[Jeremy Martin]

so then the 600 million would be paid back quicker and thus the city would then start to get the money to do other things with it quicker than the 25 years? okay, cool!

Is this how this works? Lots have been focused on the 25 year time line, but does the TIF stop if the money is recouped faster?

[jedicurt]

Is this how this works? Lots have been focused on the 25 year time line, but does the TIF stop if the money is recouped faster?

per the Norman Transrcript

How would this TIF work?
Technically, the public contribution to the project would come through two separate TIF districts with the same boundary lines. One TIF would capture 100% of undedicated sales taxes, and the other would capture 100% of ad valorem taxes.

The TIF districts would exist for a period of 25 years or until the financing costs of the arena are completely paid off — whichever comes first.

https://www.normantranscript.com/new...278295b4e.html

[Pete]

^

This TIF is structured differently than those in OKC.

At least here, there is a ceiling: once the target amount is reached, the TIF collection stops.

In all the OKC TIFs, the collection runs for the maximum period allowed by the state, 25 years. And typically, that means the amount collected can be many multiples of the original budget. BTW, this is how the sales tax will work for the arena as well. It will run for a set period and I guarantee the amount collected will be well more than estimated, as has been the case with every single MAPS.

[Jake]

Has OU thought about simply threatening relocation to Kansas City if they don’t get their new arena?

[Martin]

Has OU thought about simply threatening relocation to Kansas City if they don’t get their new arena?

hmmm... the seattle supersooners?

[jn1780]

Has OU thought about simply threatening relocation to Kansas City if they don’t get their new arena?

Just one town over. Although, I don't see OU wanting to be under the shadow of a casino. Sends the wrong message.

[ditm4567]

I find it interesting that both OU, and many on this board, just assume that if built, students will magically start attending games. This area is farther from where most students live than where LNC is currently located. Further, this area is a traffic nightmare. Hell, when I was in college--not long ago--I lived closer to this area than LNC and wouldn't go to games if they were being played up here. Just going to Crest and Target was enough of a burden.

[PhiAlpha]

I find it interesting that both OU, and many on this board, just assume that if built, students will magically start attending games. This area is farther from where most students live than where LNC is currently located. Further, this area is a traffic nightmare. Hell, when I was in college--not long ago--I lived closer to this area than LNC and wouldn't go to games if they were being played up here. Just going to Crest and Target was enough of a burden.

Tell that to all the girls in sororities who frequent the target.

I think people assume that if the arena isn't a complete dump and there's something to do nearby before and after the game, more students would be interested in showing up. And what percentage of students even live on campus? Outside of freshmen, athletes and fraternities/sorority (Sophomores and Juniors primarily), it would seem like a pretty low number.

Of course the real assumption is that more alumni and fans from the rest of the OKC metro may show up more often.

[BoulderSooner]

I find it interesting that both OU, and many on this board, just assume that if built, students will magically start attending games. This area is farther from where most students live than where LNC is currently located. Further, this area is a traffic nightmare. Hell, when I was in college--not long ago--I lived closer to this area than LNC and wouldn't go to games if they were being played up here. Just going to Crest and Target was enough of a burden.

building the arena at this location has almost nothing to do with students ..

[jedicurt]

I find it interesting that both OU, and many on this board, just assume that if built, students will magically start attending games. This area is farther from where most students live than where LNC is currently located. Further, this area is a traffic nightmare. Hell, when I was in college--not long ago--I lived closer to this area than LNC and wouldn't go to games if they were being played up here. Just going to Crest and Target was enough of a burden.

i find it interesting that many on the board assume that if built, it will hurt tax collection for 25 years because police and fire won't get money, even though they will, and that if there is a major influx to apartments that all of this money will keep going to the TIF for 25 years instead of school, when if paid off, the TIF goes away and so those massive apartment projects would actually get more money to schools faster than the current growth rate. or that they assume that if this isn't built, there will magically become a project to put this on campus (like brooks and jenkins) even though that project has never been discussed by the OU athletic department, and there are no plans for that to ever happen.

[warreng88]

My cousin is a freshman at OU. Last week at lunch, we were talking about the new OKC arena and I talked about the new OU arena and she didn't know anything about it. She asked people in her class about it and most of them knew nothing about it. They just don't go to basketball games. If they are trying to get more students to go to games, they haven't done a great job.

[jedicurt]

My cousin is a freshman at OU. Last week at lunch, we were talking about the new OKC arena and I talked about the new OU arena and she didn't know anything about it. She asked people in her class about it and most of them knew nothing about it. They just don't go to basketball games. If they are trying to get more students to go to games, they haven't done a great job.

and this is the key... OU tried basically since Blake Griffin left, to get students to basketball games... they just don't want to go. they finally realized during Buddy Hield that it's the alumni who can come to games and pack the arena. so here we are now looking at an arena that works to try and get more alumni even in the okay times, and just ignoring trying to get students to come. they won't discourage students coming, and if they do start to get interest and go to games, cool. but that isn't in the plan for the new arena, because it's pointless, based upon their last 15 years of trying to build the brand with that age group

[Pete]

Students don't go to sporting events like they used to.

Even for football games, they come late and leave early.

All this stuff is on TV anyway for anyone interested. This is why they don't need a huge capacity for a new arena and why there are no current plans to increase the size of the football stadium.

All the revenue is generated through season ticket holders and suite/club sales.

[Boop]

My cousin is a freshman at OU. Last week at lunch, we were talking about the new OKC arena and I talked about the new OU arena and she didn't know anything about it. She asked people in her class about it and most of them knew nothing about it. They just don't go to basketball games. If they are trying to get more students to go to games, they haven't done a great job.

It is not really their fault for not going to basketball games since the Sooners have not been very good since Buddy left

[Mr. Blue Sky]

This whole thing plays into my belief that bigtime college athletics will eventually become disconnected from the universities. Everything is headed that direction. The Sooners, Longhorns, Crimson Tide… they are billion dollar brands. NIL, open transfers via the portal, millionaire sophomore quarterbacks, it’s no longer “student athletes” participating in “amateur athletics.” Many think I’m crazy, but I truly believe the big break will come ‘sooner’ rather than later.

[Pete]

It is not really their fault for not going to basketball games since the Sooners have not been very good since Buddy left

I'm talking about all students/sports/colleges, not just OU.

Every school is moving towards smaller student sections and more suites, club, and donor seats.

[G.Walker]

I was an OU student. Students don't support sporting events. Most students go to games because they get tickets at a discounted price. But for the most part, they are not looking ahead booking tickets and making payments as a season ticket holder. That is mostly for your alumni that is 50 y/o +. But the bottom line is, you win, you sell tickets, and unfortunately OU basketball has been in the shadow of OU football for several decades.

[BG918]

and this is the key... OU tried basically since Blake Griffin left, to get students to basketball games... they just don't want to go. they finally realized during Buddy Hield that it's the alumni who can come to games and pack the arena. so here we are now looking at an arena that works to try and get more alumni even in the okay times, and just ignoring trying to get students to come. they won't discourage students coming, and if they do start to get interest and go to games, cool. but that isn't in the plan for the new arena, because it's pointless, based upon their last 15 years of trying to build the brand with that age group

Another reason to build the new arena on-campus. Students can’t ignore a massive construction project that they see everyday heading to class. And then being within a mile of where 8,000 students live will make it easier than ever for students to attend games.

There is a case study for this in the SEC that OU should follow: Auburn. Not a basketball school and with an outdated arena, they built a new arena 15 years ago with a 9k seating capacity and part of a larger student housing redevelopment on campus, like what OU is doing along and south of Lindsey. It took some time but eventually they hired a good coach that was able to attract good players due to the excitement generated by the new arena, and they are now a perennial Top 10 program.

[jedicurt]

Another reason to build the new arena on-campus. Students can’t ignore a massive construction project that they see everyday heading to class. And then being within a mile of where 8,000 students live will make it easier than ever for students to attend games.

There is a case study for this in the SEC that OU should follow: Auburn. Not a basketball school and with an outdated arena, they built a new arena 15 years ago with a 9k seating capacity and part of a larger student housing redevelopment on campus, like what OU is doing along and south of Lindsey. It took some time but eventually they hired a good coach that was able to attract good players due to the excitement generated by the new arena, and they are now a perennial Top 10 program.

absolutely Auburn is a case study for it. they just shrunk their already small student section even smaller by putting in a new tunnel right through the middle of it, to trim 15 seconds for the team walking to and from the locker room.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wde/comment...nt_section_to/

this literally just happened in the lead up to this season. so Auburn felt that decreasing the size of their student section by somewhere between 30-45 seats was an easy choice. Because students aren't really going to game anymore... so removing seats will push them closer together.

UNIVERSITES DON'T CARE ABOUT STUDENT ATTENDANCE. this is because the students that want to go, are already going. and most don't want to go anymore.

[PhiAlpha]

absolutely Auburn is a case study for it. they just shrunk their already small student section even smaller by putting in a new tunnel right through the middle of it, to trim 15 seconds for the team walking to and from the locker room.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wde/comment...nt_section_to/

this literally just happened in the lead up to this season. so Auburn felt that decreasing the size of their student section by somewhere between 30-45 seats was an easy choice. Because students aren't really going to game anymore... so removing seats will push them closer together.

UNIVERSITES DON'T CARE ABOUT STUDENT ATTENDANCE. this is because the students that want to go, are already going. and most don't want to go anymore.

yeah and they also make way less money on students attending.

[PhiAlpha]

This whole thing plays into my belief that bigtime college athletics will eventually become disconnected from the universities. Everything is headed that direction. The Sooners, Longhorns, Crimson Tide… they are billion dollar brands. NIL, open transfers via the portal, millionaire sophomore quarterbacks, it’s no longer “student athletes” participating in “amateur athletics.” Many think I’m crazy, but I truly believe the big break will come ‘sooner’ rather than later.

I’ve heard several people say this and just don’t think there is any way that ever happens. The only reason anyone cares about these teams is because they’re associated with the universities. If OU or Alabama separated from the schools, they’d just become some random semi pro football teams…people would care about them as much as they do the Arlington Renegades. Giving up nearly every Saturday in the fall for OU football is already a strain but if it was completely disconnected from the school I would not give enough of a **** about it to spend so much of my time on it.