University Town Center

[Rover]

I think there are two groups…those opposed to paying additional taxes for anything (even though they aren’t directly) and don’t want the city on the hook for an arena and those who want the stadium built on the main campus at all costs and think voting this down achieves that eventually.

So, status quo. Let’s live in a vibrant city but not risk anything or pay anything to have it. And those that couldn’t care less about things outside their front and back door.

[FighttheGoodFight]

So, status quo. Let’s live in a vibrant city but not risk anything or pay anything to have it. And those that couldn’t care less about things outside their front and back door.

If you read anything from Norman groups online you know that a ton of people just hate the UNP area in general. It's considered "not Norman" and the west side is "basically Edmond". People are strange in this town. Politically I have seen from both sides they hate this. One side thinks it is a tax increase and will always say no, the other thinks sports shouldn't be paid for by a city. It's fun to see from the sidelines!

[bison34]

If you read anything from Norman groups online you know that a ton of people just hate the UNP area in general. It's considered "not Norman" and the west side is "basically Edmond". People are strange in this town. Politically I have seen from both sides they hate this. One side thinks it is a tax increase and will always say no, the other thinks sports shouldn't be paid for by a city. It's fun to see from the sidelines!

Except the OKC metro area suffers because of their stupidity. Norman has unique demographics that would suit a lot of different retailers and bars and restaurants that the rest of the metro may not, yet because they are very anti-large development, and you could even say anti-growth, they hinder new and exciting options for the metro.

[Rover]

If you read anything from Norman groups online you know that a ton of people just hate the UNP area in general. It's considered "not Norman" and the west side is "basically Edmond". People are strange in this town. Politically I have seen from both sides they hate this. One side thinks it is a tax increase and will always say no, the other thinks sports shouldn't be paid for by a city. It's fun to see from the sidelines!

I’d believe this except for the huge amount of business they do with Normanites. I think people project onto others.

[ManAboutTown]

I love the look of the renderings but building a new arena significantly off campus has always been a silly idea, and going even further from campus if the people of Norman say no to this plan is an even sillier idea. If I was still a Norman voter I'd probably be voting yes to cancel this plan if it does go up for a vote.

I don't think building a new arena off campus is a silly idea at all. Especially if it brings revenue to the university and more exposure for the OU athletic teams that will play there, including basketball, gymnastics, volleyball, etc. It will increase attendance and that will increase NIL money, which is THE key issue in college sports today.

[caaokc]

So is this vote binding?

[jedicurt]

So is this vote binding?

we technically don't even know if there is going to be a vote yet. still waiting to verify all the signatures on the petition.

[BG918]

I think there are two groups…those opposed to paying additional taxes for anything (even though they aren’t directly) and don’t want the city on the hook for an arena and those who want the stadium built on the main campus at all costs and think voting this down achieves that eventually.

Guilty

OU will be better off with this built on-campus even if it takes another 10-15 years for it to happen.

[bison34]

we technically don't even know if there is going to be a vote yet. still waiting to verify all the signatures on the petition.

They apparently got over 11k signatures. If that is the case, then this TIF will fail very badly.

Now Jersey Boss can be happy, and Norman can have the empty northern part of UNP they deserve.

Can also take down that article on the front page.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Wow 11k is a lot in 3 weeks. Sounds like some strong opposition to it.

[aDark]

They apparently got over 11k signatures. If that is the case, then this TIF will fail very badly.

Why do you say that? Isn't the success of the Petition a more telling statement of the veracity of the group opposing this TIF and less indicative of the actual TIF support? Or is 9% of the population signing the Petition meaningful in some way I don't understand.

My belief is that many signed the Petition because they don't like how the City Council pushed it through, not necessarily because they will ultimately vote "no." I'm sure many will vote no, but I also won't be surprised if the vote to build it passes 60/40 (a landslide) - especially after the money behind the build goes into full-on campaign mode.

[bison34]

Why do you say that? Isn't the success of the Petition a more telling statement of the veracity of the group opposing this TIF and less indicative of the actual TIF support? Or is 9% of the population signing the Petition meaningful in some way I don't understand.

My belief is that many signed the Petition because they don't like how the City Council pushed it through, not necessarily because they will ultimately vote "no." I'm sure many will vote no, but I also won't be surprised if the vote to build it passes 60/40 (a landslide) - especially after the money behind the build goes into full-on campaign mode.

Hahaha, 6100 signatures were needed to get this on the ballot. That's it. How many people do you think actually vote, and how many will on a random Tuesday in February?

[aDark]

Hahaha, 6100 signatures were needed to get this on the ballot. That's it. How many people do you think actually vote, and how many will on a random Tuesday in February?

Disclaimer that I don't live in Norman and don't have a dog in this fight. But I'm enjoying watching from the sidelines!

I'd wager that voter turnout for this issue is around 15,000-20,000 - and that it passes with more than 8-10k "yes" votes.

What's your take, Bison? Are my estimates on turnout way too high?

[G.Walker]

More residents in Norman want this to happen, then don't. Moreover OU and the City of Norman have the influence and money to buy votes and to fuel a campaign.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Disclaimer that I don't live in Norman and don't have a dog in this fight. But I'm enjoying watching from the sidelines!

I'd wager that voter turnout for this issue is around 15,000-20,000 - and that it passes with more than 8-10k "yes" votes.

What's your take, Bison? Are my estimates on turnout way too high?

This years February elections had 15% turnout. 6,000ish people.

[aDark]

This years February elections had 15% turnout. 6,000ish people.

I would think this vote will draw a lot more than were inclined to roll out for a standard city council election. This is a hot topic. can it double? Maybe that's optimistic. There's like 22k students on main campus. I doubt many of them cared to vote in the city council election. I anticipate many will care to vote on a TIF matter that could net them a brand-new arena. But maybe with the arena being off-campus they won't roll out? IDK. But I do believe OU and the money behind this development will be throwing a LOT of cash into getting students and yes voters to show out.

I'll stand on my 15k-20k voter showing estimate which is admittedly based on no personal knowledge.

[bison34]

More residents in Norman want this to happen, then don't. Moreover OU and the City of Norman have the influence and money to buy votes and to fuel a campaign.

Haha, I think you are being very optimistic. This is double the amount of people that voted in this past year's February election.

[bison34]

I would think this vote will draw a lot more than were inclined to roll out for a standard city council election. This is a hot topic. can it double? Maybe that's optimistic. There's like 22k students on main campus. I doubt many of them cared to vote in the city council election. I anticipate many will care to vote on a TIF matter that could net them a brand-new arena. But maybe with the arena being off-campus they won't roll out? IDK. But I do believe OU and the money behind this development will be throwing a LOT of cash into getting students and yes voters to show out.

I'll stand on my 15k-20k voter showing estimate which is admittedly based on no personal knowledge.

I hope you are right. But them having nearly double the amount needed is damning, to me.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I would think this vote will draw a lot more than were inclined to roll out for a standard city council election. This is a hot topic. can it double? Maybe that's optimistic. There's like 22k students on main campus. I doubt many of them cared to vote in the city council election. I anticipate many will care to vote on a TIF matter that could net them a brand-new arena. But maybe with the arena being off-campus they won't roll out? IDK. But I do believe OU and the money behind this development will be throwing a LOT of cash into getting students and yes voters to show out.

I'll stand on my 15k-20k voter showing estimate which is admittedly based on no personal knowledge.

Most of the students don't vote as they aren't residents of Norman (permanent). The OGE March election had around 16k come out to vote but that wasn't a special election so who knows!

[jedicurt]

i mean i think if they get the signatures, they will win the election, and this will fail. and norman will suffer. just like the fights against the turnpikes have now just turned into them still being built, but less useable for the citizens of Norman. This anti-development group here sure wants to avoid having norman grow and get better. but then constantly complain about norman in the same conversation.

[bison34]

i mean i think if they get the signatures, they will win the election, and this will fail. and norman will suffer. just like the fights against the turnpikes have now just turned into them still being built, but less useable for the citizens of Norman. This anti-development group here sure wants to avoid having norman grow and get better. but then constantly complain about norman in the same conversation.

They want $1 billion dollar developments to just pop up, all on other people's dimes. You won't find many of those in any city, let alone one thr size of Norman.

[David]

So, they needed 6.1k signatures to get this on the February ballot, instead they turned in 11k, and the previous February special election had a turnout of just 6k? The interests behind this proposal with the big bucks better be prepared to spend some of that on a GOTV campaign.

[bison34]

I guess the ONLY thing that could help OU is that the February election is the same as the mayoral election.

However, most who signed this were unhappy with how the mayor handled this, so it might be more of a hindrance to OU.

[josefromtulsa]

They want $1 billion dollar developments to just pop up, all on other people's dimes. You won't find many of those in any city, let alone one thr size of Norman.

Yeah people dont want a 1 billion dollar development on their dime and want developers to pay for it. What is wrong with them...

[bison34]

Yeah people dont want a 1 billion dollar development on their dime and want developers to pay for it. What is wrong with them...

Because it is a fallacy in logic. I want nice things, but I don't want to pay for them. OKC has learned that TIFs help a lot, and are reaping the benefits. Norman misses out on tons of developments because they don't want to pay anything at all.

Even in NYC and LA, projects get help.