Maps 4 Neighborhoods

[Spartan]

Well played fitting in Morning Woods entrance in...even though it's in Edmond

Yeah I wanted to god an angle that didn't say "COLTRANE" on a fluorescent sign, but that was only after looking for one of PB Odom's Green Valley signs (he developed everything between 89th and 134th w consistent "Green Valley" branding). First rule of attacking suburbs - throw your own under the bus before you go after someone else's slice of suburban paradise.

By the way just to settle this issue, I'm not anti-suburb. It serves a really important purpose. Housing should serve the people who live in it. That said, OKC's housing stock is not conducive for its needs in 2016. We are way overbuilt on ranch homes, which will depress the value of those, and way under built on quality rental and urban housing, which will inflate the values of those. What we have is a housing crisis on multiple fronts bc suburban homeowners aren't building equity like they should while renters (young pros) are cost burdened. And none of it is making OKC attractive for relocation, it's actually something we have to get people to look past.

[bradh]

I was just giving you a nod for working in a childish joke with that sign usage, a virtual thumbs up

[Just the facts]

I am curious if there has ever been a proposal for smaller bus hubs in the city or other cities? I think the main turnoff for me is that I would have to take a bus all the way downtown to get back to where I want to go. What if there were three or four smaller hubs that had direct lines downtown and to the other hubs, but also better routes around that neighborhood? For example, put one at NW Expressway and MacArthur that better serves the NW area of OKC, but also has a direct line downtown and to another hub at Reno and Council. This would also cost more, which I am aware of, because there would be an increase in the amount of buses, as well as employees and infrastructure. just a thought.

Three or four years ago I proposed a neighborhood-based bus system that ran within 3 blocks of every front door every 15 minutes in the area area bounded by I-240/I-44/I-35 using the same number of vehicles used today.

[Laramie]

^ That would make sense. A LOT of sense, and I would be the #1 advocate for that.

This is a neighborhood (CTP) that deserves MAPS support:


This is another neighborhood that deserves MAPS support:


This is NOT a neighborhood that deserves MAPS support:


This isn't difficult to figure out.

I'll say it again, Ward 8 and 5 shouldn't get a dime from MAPS, so no need for a steering committee. I wouldn't want to waste people's time.

I think we will need to figure out the tax for all of this. We're looking at a MAPS 4 penny sales tax extension, a NEW education sales tax (huh?), and an RTA tax on top of that. I think that MAPS and the RTA will need to find some way to nest the taxes into each other. In OKC, maybe there isn't an RTA tax if part of the MAPS tax goes to the OKGO system.

Agree,

We understand your point Spartan; however, every Ward has neighborhoods that could use funds. Let's determined where those neighborhoods are. The elaborate well-lighted clean hoods wouldn't.

Those patrons who live in the more upscale hoods will feel slighted; because they are paying more in sales taxes.

There is always something you can do to improve your area. The people who live in those surroundings are better equipped to point those things out--especially if there are concerns about infrastructure, creeks, ravines & streams.

[betts]

As an Edmondnite, I disagree, if for no other reason we need to pay our share. I think a metro area transit authority fund is possible, and Norman and Edmond need to have a more direct funding input than just the occasional OKC sales tax.

I did not mean to imply that Edmond, Norman, etc. don't need to pay their fair share, but it will still be pricey. I think it will be very difficult to get a MAPS and RTA tax passed fairly simultaneously. We may get one but not the other, and I think an RTA will have far more impact than anything being discussed re MAPS 4 Neighborhoods. Just my opinion.

[hoya]

How about we get a plan in place for the RTA, get that passed, and then work MAPS 4 around it?

[Pete]

^

That -- or something similar -- could very much end up being one of the outcomes of this process.

[johnnyhooper]

This is all moot. A bunch of us already decided that it's MAPS 4: Dome the City.

[OKCRT]

This is all moot. A bunch of us already decided that it's MAPS 4: Dome the City.

The money will prob need to go to finish the CC anyways if they want to compete for the bigger money making conventions. CC stage 2 & Streetcar expansion could prob. easily eat up another billion.

But if 500 mil is going to different neighborhoods around the city I would start in the poorest hoods and work out from there.

[Spartan]

Agree,

We understand your point Spartan; however, every Ward has neighborhoods that could use funds. Let's determined where those neighborhoods are. The elaborate well-lighted clean hoods wouldn't.

Those patrons who live in the more upscale hoods will feel slighted; because they are paying more in sales taxes.

There is always something you can do to improve your area. The people who live in those surroundings are better equipped to point those things out--especially if there are concerns about infrastructure, creeks, ravines & streams.

So you're saying you want a MAPS 4 Creeks, Ravines, & Streams... so that upscale hoods don't "feel slighted"? Okie dokie.

I am so glad we've totally left the reservation on the idea of inner city revitalization just bc we got a few new restaurants on 23rd Street. I think some of you that seem to be under the impression that OKC is good now and doesn't need a serious MAPS 4, you should get out a little. Go see other cities and how they're doing.

KC, Dallas, Austin, Minneapolis, Salt Lake, Denver, Indy, Cincy, Columbus, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Philly, DC, Atlanta, Charlotte - any of those cities should be sufficient for opening your eyes when you get back. Mpls has like 40,000 downtown residents and is on track for 75,000 by 2025, and whenever they do a new light rail corridor, they plan for over $10 billion in TOD. That's a visionary city.

The first 24 hours after I've landed back in OKC are always the hardest for me. Of course, many of those cities would find a way to apportion some of this toward quality affordable housing, but hey let's not get crazy here. There aren't many areas where OKC doesn't have a LONG way to go still. Giving Ward 5 and Ward 8 and everyone else $62 million just to be fair will put us that much farther behind more successful cities.

[soonerguru]

What about place making and beautification? Were those identified? I agree with Spartan. This is the problem OKC has being so spread out. Just divvying up $62 million between wards prevents strategically using resources to target bigger needs. Also, this money should go toward hard infrastructure, art, sidewalks, etc. only and nothing do to with general budget items.

[Spartan]

Yeah we DONT need Vision 2025 here. I hope we aren't that amateur.

[Urban Pioneer]

So, I guess their next meeting is tomorrow night at Tulakes Elementary 6 - 7:30. I went to the one at Ralph Ellison Library and did not participate but went and observed. Then I went to the one at City Presbyterian and did actually participate in a group.

Beautification did not come up as a specific word very often. Place making did occasionally. The group's organizers discuss these items in the podcast.

Perhaps things have changed since MAPS 3 with how you get things done politically. I suspect not though. I am not sure that this initiative has the lift to make it through the process without a bit more of a edge to it. Its organizers are honorable in their approach and honest in their aspirations. There just seems to be a fair dose of 'millennialesque naivety' attached to this process though.

I think to be successful in obtaining commitments, their strategy is definitely going to need refinement, discipline, and clarity.

[Urban Pioneer]

Several of us OKC Talker's went tonight to Tulakes Elementary. The attendance was modest but the representation was very geographically diversified. Since it was a smaller group, we had a chance to talk in more detail about solutions. It was a positive experience with more to come. Ed Shadid attended as well as former school board member Laura Massenant. A new City councilman from War Acres also attended.

The organizers seem to have some good moves planned.

[David]

That was a very interesting meeting, and it was nice meeting you in person Jeff.

[Pete]

Sorry I missed it but had a meeting that ran late.

Thanks to those who participated!

[Urban Pioneer]

Thanks! I enjoyed meeting you as well!

[Pete]

Interesting article by Bill Crum.

Most notably:

1. The powers that be are strongly considering moving the MAPS 4 vote up to *this* November where it would go head-to-head with Boren's penny sales tax increase for schools.

2. There is mention of making the length of the sales tax collection as short as 2 years, which would mean MAPS 4 would be much smaller than the previous MAPS initiatives.

All this has been brewing for a while and there are various theories as to why the Chamber and those usually behind MAPS would want to get this on the ballot so soon and make the term so short.

We're going to be hearing much more about this in the near future.

http://newsok.com/maps-4-in-the-work...rticle/5497807

[d-usa]

I could definitely see this as an attempt to deflate the school tax proposal.

[Pete]

Councilman Shadid just posted this on Facebook:

"Is "MAPS 4 Neighborhoods" being used by the city's power brokers as a sacrificial lamb to stop David Boren's sales tax initiative? It is hard to explain putting MAPS 4 on this November's ballot 3 months from now with no previous discussion before this week, the Chamber of Commerce admitting that financing a campaign would be expensive because of the cost of advertising during a presidential campaign, and no public engagement or plan as to what would be included in such an initiative. Councilman Greiner is correct in stating that if you want MAPS to fail you place it on this November's ballot. But perhaps by overloading the voter with tax initiatives, the real goal is to defeat all tax initiatives, including David Boren's."

[dankrutka]

It also seems politically dangerous to create an opponent in those who are in favor of addressing the public education funding shortfalls. I completely support all the MAPs projects, but education in Oklahoma is in absolute crisis mode. If they make it a political battle, and I had to choose (which I don't because I don't have a vote), then I would choose education over MAPs. The reason I say this is because I think there are a lot of people who feel the same.

[Paseofreak]

All for MAPS and all for great education system and a lot of other great things. But Oklahoma getting a brand new shiny one cent education tax because they gave the old tax to the wealthy and to corporate interests just pisses me off.

[mkjeeves]

The whole state votes on the cent for education and only OKC residents on MAPS 4, right? That makes the dynamic a bit more challenging, but I think pairing the two dilutes the OKC votes for both. It wouldn't surprise me to see MAPS 4 fail, the OKC vote not be a majority for education but it pass anyway.

No surprise the powers that be are throwing MAPS 4 under the bus. Not good for MAPS in general, a nail in the coffin of the brand.

[Teo9969]

Either a nail in the coffin or a chance to raise keep the tax at the higher level for an extended period so that citizens get used to paying nearly 10% sales tax.

[d-usa]

I would vote yes for both, but I don't know if I would have faith in the city as a whole to do the same.