OCU Law School

[ljbab728]

[template=]
development
|category1=Downtown
|category2=Central Business District
|category3=Schools
|category4=Office Buildings
|
|project=Old Central High School
|address=800 N. Robinson
|status=
|owner=
|cost=$8 million 11/29/05; $24 million 2013
|architect=FSB
|start=11/1/13
|finish=January 2015
|contractor=
|height=5 floors
|sq. feet=177,296
|acerage=2.75
|other= Approx. 500 students
|
|image=
|
[/template]
Information & Latest News

12/15/13: http://newsok.com/ocu-law-school-wor...rticle/3914651
"the university is continuing to field interest in creating student housing around the school. The university, meanwhile, is searching for an operator for a cafe"
Historic Central High School Targeted for New School
Administration Building
5/13/13 - $500,000 building permit issued to remodel the interior
Links

County Assessors Record
Retro Metro OKC Article
Gallery

[BoulderSooner]

if the sale price is still close to 12 mil ... not sure that is a good use of education funds

edit asking price .. via steve's info

[Steve]

The last story written indicated it was for sale for $12 million.

[GaryOKC6]

Isn't that the headquarters of American Farmers and Ranchers Insurance Company? The article did not mention where they will be going. I know that they have had some financial problems from the 2010 hail storm claims and I hope that they are not going away. they have been around in Oklahoma for a long time.

[BoulderSooner]

The last story written indicated it was for sale for $12 million.

thanks steve .. i will edit the above post ..

[BoulderSooner]

Isn't that the headquarters of American Farmers and Ranchers Insurance Company? The article did not mention where they will be going. I know that they have had some financial problems from the 2010 hail storm claims and I hope that they are not going away. they have been around in Oklahoma for a long time.

they don't need a building of that size .. they are not going away just moving locations

[Spartan]

This deal should NOT move forward as long as budget cuts are proposed for schools and some schools continue to have major problems.

[Rover]

Will this purchase come from Maps for Kids? Then the old building can be sold. I think this is a short vs. longer term cost issue isn't it. Sometimes the more prudent thing to do is to swap out for something requiring much less maintenance.

[Bellaboo]

Isn't that the headquarters of American Farmers and Ranchers Insurance Company? The article did not mention where they will be going. I know that they have had some financial problems from the 2010 hail storm claims and I hope that they are not going away. they have been around in Oklahoma for a long time.

A couple of friends of mine work there and they just don't need that big of a building. The one friend said one of the possibilities was on Northwest Expwy.

[Larry OKC]

At least some of it is being covered by MAPS 4 Kids (according to Mr. Springer). My question for Steve (sent by email) is when they were looking to use this for the Downtown Elementary AND Admin (in a move to realize some shared cost savings) it was determined that (IIRC) there had been some structural changes made to the building by other owners that were going to be cost prohibitive to correct. Is that still the case????

This Oklahoman article didn't go into the details...

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-scho...adlines_widget

The other two sites were the Century Center Plaza retail space and the historic Central High School building, which has been redeveloped into office space.
After scrutinizing why the Central High School at 817 N Robinson, wasn't the top choice, the Oklahoma City School Board voted unanimously in favor of the approximately 2.5 acre lot owned by the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority.
“A lot of us had a real love affair with Central High School,” said Gail Vines one of three board members who served on the task force.
“We discussed bringing in the administration into the space. ... When it came down to dollar amounts, it became pretty scary.”

[Spartan]

Looks like heaven and earth is going to be moved so that a failed school district can have a cushy new headquarters.

[Just the facts]

Public buildings should reflect the people they represent (and in many cases they do whether the 'public' likes it or not).

[Cocaine]

So why can't they just stay in the building they're in now and make okc high into a high school again. Heck there are plenty of elemtary schools through the city that could use this money. One thing a lot of people don't is that some elementary schools were supposed to get money for renovations but some of those schools ended up closed. So where did that money go to?
Planned

[betts]

I would suspect that it was the elementary school part of the financial equation that made the dollar amounts scary, not the administrative side. That's unless there are state requirements for public buildings of any sort that are not there for private. The building is already used for offices, so I would think the required remodeling costs would not be high.

[rcjunkie]

Looks like heaven and earth is going to be moved so that a failed school district can have a cushy new headquarters.

That's great, they definitely need new offices.

[Spartan]

I would suspect that it was the elementary school part of the financial equation that made the dollar amounts scary, not the administrative side. That's unless there are state requirements for public buildings of any sort that are not there for private. The building is already used for offices, so I would think the required remodeling costs would not be high.

I think the figures were "scary" with regards to comps, which means that a certain amount is okay for an administrative facility which may or may not exceed what is "okay" for an elementary school. Either way, it doesn't matter. Being the failed public school district that they are, they should have a HUGE burden of proof to show that this is not a financial boondoggle whereas I just don't think detractors have any burden of proof here.

Failed school district is arguably the fault of the OCPS administrators, and here you have people who just ask for more money, cause huge political stinks when anyone blames them, even bigger political stinks when City Hall tries addressing the issue of the failed school district, then they ask for more money, then they want to use the money for a cushier headquarters for administrators. This bothers me because in any other system, people stay in the dog house or get fired if they don't address their failure. Instead of being in the dog house where they belong, they want a state-of-the-art facility that will in no way benefit the kids who have no other option than a failed school district. How rotten.

[Rover]

Maybe it is about the cost of maintaining where they are and not about "cushy" or "state of the art". I know it is "cool" to hate every decision, but I would like to see maintenance costs, facility strategies, etc. before condemning the proposal. Can they move and sell what they have now? How much can they recover? What is likely to be the maintenance and facility operating costs one vs. the other for the next 10-20 years. Do the current facilities affect their ability to operate now, or not? Other than knee jerk hate all authority reactions, have we seen a complete analysis? Let's not adopt the most widely used and most erroneous fallacy of logic .... fallacy ad hominem. If it fails rational and reasonable analysis, fine, then let's do all we can to block it.

[Spartan]

Maybe it is about the cost of maintaining where they are and not about "cushy" or "state of the art". I know it is "cool" to hate every decision, but I would like to see maintenance costs, facility strategies, etc. before condemning the proposal. Can they move and sell what they have now? How much can they recover? What is likely to be the maintenance and facility operating costs one vs. the other for the next 10-20 years. Do the current facilities affect their ability to operate now, or not? Other than knee jerk hate all authority reactions, have we seen a complete analysis? Let's not adopt the most widely used and most erroneous fallacy of logic .... fallacy ad hominem. If it fails rational and reasonable analysis, fine, then let's do all we can to block it.

I didn't personally insult Springer, Humphreys, Willa Johnson, or any of those OCPS high-ups. No ad hominem. My logic reasoning was as follows: If a successful school administration (A) should be able to get away with an expensive new admin-only facility (C), then an extremely unsuccessful school administration (B) should not be able to get away with an expensive new admin-only facility (C). A = C; B =/= C

[Rover]

And my point is that whether it makes economic sense is separate from their other actions. There are a lot more costs over time than purchase price. Often, the least expensive for life costs IS the higher first cost. That may or may not be the case here, but we haven't been given enough info to decide.

[Spartan]

Well there you have a good point, but here I go back to my original post you were responding to:

Being the failed public school district that they are, they should have a HUGE burden of proof to show that this is not a financial boondoggle whereas I just don't think detractors have any burden of proof here.

So yes, let's see the figures. I think we all agree on that. But again, the burden of proof is on them not detractors. This school district probably could use a lot more pressure than it has gotten recently. Maybe City Hall should revisit the topic of school district takeover, because the situation has only gotten worse since Springer staved that off.

They should spend less time trying to save their bums, less time getting a new administrative headquarters, more time fixing their failed schools.

[RodH]

Would you please explain why you state that the OKCPS is a failed public school district? I do not think that the district is perfect but based upon my experiences that characterization seems a bit extreme. My son is a recent graduate and I think that he was well prepared to continue his education. .

[Doug Loudenback]

Rod, Nick/Spartain revels in hyperbole. Unfortunately, he was unable to be a graduate of the Oklahoma City public school system ... isn't that so, Nick?

[Spartan]

I don't revel in hyperbole, I grieve in reality and a penchant for social justice (this idea of creating equal opportunities for all people regardless of which OKC neighborhood they live in, which is something I know Doug has helped out with so that shouldn't be read as a slight against anyone). I was lucky, having graduated from Westmoore--if people feel that makes me unqualified to comment on OCPS, I'd consider that pretty reasonable, however then the pool of qualified commentators suddenly becomes very small. A lot smaller than this thread.

I will of course respectfully defer to the experiences of OCPS graduates, but I doubt many of them will argue that the current state of the district is good. I think it's a civic responsibility for us all to demand better opportunities for children at schools like Edwards Elementary, where 78% of kids can't read on the level they should and 71% can't do math. Not only should that make people angry, but now the administration responsibility for that school wanting a pristine new headquarters facility for themselves should make people angrier.
http://capitolbeatok.com/reports/by-...-city-district

As for hyperbole, I do probably use hyperbole too often. I feel responsible to point out problems that people like to pretend don't exist. As for this problem, I hardly think I'm saying anything new...OCPS has been in trouble for a long time. Not sure if you guys remember, but the City recently discussed the possible necessity for a city takeover of the school district. Consolidation of government is usually a good thing, but in this case, it may be particularly necessary if this school board and administration can't help these kids.

I can't help but think that this project to invest in a new headquarters, to entrench the district's administration in downtown, is an attempt to ward off a future city takeover. This isn't about educating children, or empowering teachers, or even downtown revitalization (this building is in fine shape). This smacks of possibly trying to endear themselves to the downtown club (or joining that club themselves) and having an administrative facility that is so expensive that it would be detrimental for the city to eliminate it at a later date. That's what I'm against.

[Doug Loudenback]

Thanks for the non-hyperbole, Nick, Moore school system grad. Since you didn't attend Okc public schools, I guess that you know better than Rod whose kid recently graduated. I should have figured that you did.

[Spartan]

Thanks for the non-hyperbole, Nick, Moore school system grad. Since you didn't attend Okc public schools, I guess that you know better than Rod whose kid recently graduated. I should have figured that you did.

Doug, I think you're trying to create drama where there is none. By the way, didn't you graduate from Lawton High School? I guess you're also disqualified.

Rod and I haven't had anything to disagree over. There is a difference between the preparedness of one graduate (there are MANY OKC schools grads on this forum who have done great stuff) and the state of an entire school district. I would be curious what Rod thinks about this administrative move, and I'd hate to see you put words of support for this new headquarters in the mouth of Rod unless you speak on behalf of him.

And also Doug, since you're a reasonable person (even though you went to Lawton) I'd be curious what you think of this administrative move - not where I went to school.

How many times do we have discussions on this board with young families who so badly want to live in the inner city but can't allow their kids to go to OKC schools? Probably on a weekly basis. And frankly, we never have a good answer for them. The general consensus in the past has been that there are a number of excellent elementary schools in the district, but middle school is where you run into lacking good schools. The district also has a model magnet school program, but not every kid can go to Classen SAS.