HOT RUMOR: NEW TARGET in SW OKC!!!

[SoonerDave]

All:

Although I must qualify it only as a rumor, I consider it a very strong rumor that the construction now ongoing at SW 89th and Western in SW OKC to be the beginnings of a new TARGET location, presumably to replace the facility at SW 44th and Western. The source that relayed this to me did not indicate if it was a "regular" or "Super" Target, only that it was a "Target" store of some variety.

More details (and hopefully confirmation) as I encounter it.

-SoonerDave

[Martin]

i'm not sure of that... some of the signs in that area say 'tap architecture'... i emailed them about it a few weeks ago and they referred me to 'sooner traditions realty'... not sure if a company such as that would handle a target, but i could be wrong. -M

[SoonerDave]

Hi, mmm..

Understand your point, but the source of this rumor was two major south OKC real estate players, and prior rumors from this source have proven remarkably accurate over the years. As I said, it's only rumor at this point, but considering the size of the groundwork being done at 89th and Western, it sure appears that something of a Target-caliber size is going in.

Please don't this question as any indictment of your sanity, but is there any possibility they might have said "sooner investment realty?" That's a crew that was/is involved in a development in Tulsa that was supposed to include a large new Target store, but I admit the last I heard of that was from several months back.

-SoonerDave

[okclee]

I had heard a new shopping strip area with a Louie's Restaurant, all designed by TAP architecture.

I wouldn't think that Target is going to close it's store at SW 44th either. That store serves it's purpose at that location and always has good traffic.

By the way what is the latest on the Super Wal-Mart at 104 and May?

[BaconCheeseburgerDeluxe]

I had heard a new shopping strip area with a Louie's Restaurant, all designed by TAP architecture.

I wouldn't think that Target is going to close it's store at SW 44th either. That store serves it's purpose at that location and always has good traffic.

By the way what is the latest on the Super Wal-Mart at 104 and May?

The land is big enough to support a large shopping center with a Target.

[SoonerDave]

okclee, I live near that SW 104th and May area, and I've heard nothing new about the Wal Scum going in there for some time. TAPP Development took down the link to that project from their website some time ago, but I remember them saying it was targeted for a Winter 2008 opening...if that's gonna happen, they'd better get cracking. If it didn't happen, it'd break my heart...not. That's wishful thinking, of course.

And I'll guarantee you that area at 89th and Western is more than big enough to accomodate a Target and more. In fact, without grabbing a map, I bet the land area there is double that of the SW 104th and May location. I suspect Hobby Lobby might jump at the chance for a new building, as that Brookwood center they're in now is close to 30 years old, having housed two or three grocery stores and a TG&Y over the years.

There is no doubt in my mind Target would shutter the SW 44th property if the SW 89th store proves true - particularly if they knew that Wal Scum was going to be putting in a SuperBlight only three driving miles away (about 2.5 as the crow files). The 44th area around Western is decreasingly retail seemingly by the minute, and would leave only the slowly dying Sears and Wal Slum Neighborhood Market as the major retail players across the street from Integris Hospital. When the JCPenny store on I-35 in Moore opens, I have to believe the Crossroads location will be vacated, and given that Sears tried and failed to claim the vacated Ward's space a few years back, I'd have to believe Sears will try to claim that space if at all possible. That's all speculation on my part, of course, not even a rumor.

-soonerdave

[BaconCheeseburgerDeluxe]

SoonerDave I can pretty much bet that if Sears ever hinted at closing Integris would be calling with an offer for the land.

That land would make a sweet location for a new hospital tower. They could build a brand new hospital on that site and then turn the existing hospital into a long term care and research center. You could connect the two properties with tunnels and/or skywalks.

The Target store could be converted to smaller retail spaces or it could come down to and be turned in to an additional medical plaza for Integris. I know Midwest Regional purchased the old MWC Target to use as addtional space for clinics and offices.

[mranderson]

"When the JCPenny store on I-35 in Moore opens, I have to believe the Crossroads location will be vacated..."

JC Penny already announced they are closing the Crossroads location. Do I see Sears moving there? No. Why? Crossroads is no longer a safe environment, nor is it attractive.

On Target. The far SW side has needed a new Target for a long time. I bet they get it and store 44 closes.

[Martin]

i agree that the far southwest side could use a target, however i think that the areas are far enough apart that a new location could be opened without having to close the existing one on 44th. i believe that store still gets traffic, so i see little reason to close it and force those customers to drive several miles out of their way.

soonerdave, no offense taken but i'm pretty sure the email sent to me says 'sooner traditions', but i can check it again when i get home. i do remember pulling up their website after receiving a somewhat cryptic response from tap... sooner traditions appeared to be a fairly small company in norman that seemed to do quite a bit of property management and some commercial... because of that, i'm more inclined to believe the "louie's" rumor, which i've also seen posted on this site a few months ago.

-M

[SoonerDave]

mmm

Gotcha. Sorry for the question - I didn't realize you had gotten an email, for some reason I thought you had gotten their name over the phone. DOH on me. No question that Sooner Traditions seems a residential-oriented group, although they list some commercial actiivty on their website. Who knows.

All I can say at this point is that the landmovers at 89th and Western are clearing off land for the biggest Louie's in history, or there's something else huge going in there with them.

however i think that the areas are far enough apart that a new location could be opened without having to close the existing one on 44th. i believe that store still gets traffic, so i see little reason to close it and force those customers to drive several miles out of their way.

mmm, 44th to 89th is only three miles farther south. I may be missing something, but I can't imagine any big-box mass retailer maintaining stores that close together in this particular market, especially considering that the population density and financial demographics of the 73139-73159-73170 zipcodes are finally starting to make some heads turn. Are there other Target's, or even WalScum's, in the area that close together? (And by that I mean apples-to-apples - WalScum SuperBlights compared to other WalScum SuperBlights, not Neighborhood Markets).

JC Penny already announced they are closing the Crossroads location. Do I see Sears moving there? No. Why? Crossroads is no longer a safe environment, nor is it attractive.

I was not aware Penny's had made that formal announcement, mranderson, but it didn't take a rocket scientist to make the leap. As for the rest of the comment, yawn. Yes, we know Crossroads has some problems. They're well documented, and you've certainly done your share to exaggerate them. We all know how much you hate Crossroads, and we also know how much that hatred of yours has colored your impression of the area. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But as a lifelong southsider, I'll stand toe-to-toe with you in opposition to this inaccurate bullets-and-guns notion you try to paint of Crossroads. It simply isn't true.

I have no doubt Integris would snatch up the Sears land if at all possible. I'm not sure how interested they would be in that nasty, 40-year-old building, however.

As for the rest of the Target rumor, even though I still can call it only rumor, I'll stand by the rumor for now, and the source from which it originates. Rumors from that little klatch, even reported second- and third-hand, have been accurate much more often than not. If I find out something else, I'll let everyone know

-soonerDave

[Martin]

i will say this, soonerdave... i hope your rumor is correct. after visiting the supertarget in norman, i'd welcome one in south okc. i won't totally discount the argument about closing the sw 44th target if one opens up on 89th... i just think that it's of enough distance that both could be successful. south okc/moore has super wal-marts within 4 miles of each other and both do considerable business (not from me, though!) and have at least considered a third one near us. i won't say that it'd be a sure thing that the 44th target would stay open if this situation arises, but i don't think it'd be out of the question.

as for target locating on that corner, while the vacant land is certainly large enough; i don't think the whole thing is being developed. i may be wrong here (and correct me if you've seen otherwise), but it looks to me that the amount of land being worked here is just a big "L" around the existing cvs pharmacy and only goes as far west to where the drainage canal crosses 89th and as far south as the recently demolished homes... if that's right, then there would only be space enough for the average strip shopping center. i'll have to keep my eyes peeled next time i drive by this intersection to confirm this. -M

[SoonerDave]

mmm,

I may be wrong, but from what I can tell, (drove by there yesterday) it looks to me like they've excavated all the way to the extreme east side of that Sky Ranch housing addition that buffets the area to the south and west. There are survey flagsticks all over the frontage area of that land north of the trees that parallels 89th, which tells me that's next in line for excavation. They've also cut in what appears will become a feeder entrance immediately west of the CVS, very similar to the feeder entrance that's shown on the proposed plat for the Super WalScum @ 104th and May.

Yeah, after having seen a couple of SuperTargets, I was delighted to hear the rumor yesterday. Several I've spoken with in my area were hoping a SuperTarget would be going into the 104th and May location, alas...

Speculating and wondering is half the fun of these "mystery" projects, isn't it ? Especially when you know that someone out there knows everything about it......

-soonerdave

[Pete]

Whatever happens, I really hope they don't abandon that store at 44th & Western.

Once retailers like that leave an area, it's darn hard to ever get them back and the neighborhood really suffers as a result.

[Easy180]

You are right mailbu...Would be difficult to get a tenant for that large a bldg in that area...Would probably tear it down and put in a strip center with a check casher's, procut's, cellphone types of places

[bombermwc]

I don't think that Integris would buy that land. Southwest isn't large enough to ever really build on the Sears lot. MWC has tried for years to buy the land between the hospital and that old Target, but as soon as someone knows you want it, they raise the price. But honestly, Southwest would have to build up to the curb to make it feasible. Otherwise you are walking a HUGE distance between facilities. Look at St. Anthony, Baptist, or OU, they are all VERY close quartered. Think urban because people have to walk these distances.....infirmed people too. Can you imagine an 80 year old trying to wheel themselves between that distance?

[okclee]

Whatever happens, I really hope they don't abandon that store at 44th & Western.

Once retailers like that leave an area, it's darn hard to ever get them back and the neighborhood really suffers as a result.

I agree with you Malibu. I grew up in that area and do know many people that still live and work nearby. Although it is not the wealthiest parts of Okc, they still need places of retail. The Target has always kept up that area and it REALLY would hurt that neighborhood to see them leave.

I think that it could work having both stores, if the rumors are true of course.

[mranderson]

"was not aware Penny's had made that formal announcement, mranderson, but it didn't take a rocket scientist to make the leap. As for the rest of the comment, yawn. Yes, we know Crossroads has some problems. They're well documented, and you've certainly done your share to exaggerate them. We all know how much you hate Crossroads, and we also know how much that hatred of yours has colored your impression of the area. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But as a lifelong southsider, I'll stand toe-to-toe with you in opposition to this inaccurate bullets-and-guns notion you try to paint of Crossroads. It simply isn't true."

I have no idea what you personally think a gangbanger is, however, I see them in Crossroads every time I go there. I am nearly a lifelong (so far) resident of south Oklahoma City as well, and have followed the history of that mall. You are also entitled to your opinion, however, you are very wrong. I reccomend you drive down Crenshaw in the Los Angeles area and look at the local residents, then compare them to Crossroads' main clientelle. You will see similarities. Plus. I do not "hate" anything. Do I dislike the southside? yes. However, I do not "hate" it. Plus, it has not "colored" my views.

[Easy180]

"was not aware Penny's had made that formal announcement, mranderson, but it didn't take a rocket scientist to make the leap. As for the rest of the comment, yawn. Yes, we know Crossroads has some problems. They're well documented, and you've certainly done your share to exaggerate them. We all know how much you hate Crossroads, and we also know how much that hatred of yours has colored your impression of the area. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But as a lifelong southsider, I'll stand toe-to-toe with you in opposition to this inaccurate bullets-and-guns notion you try to paint of Crossroads. It simply isn't true."

I have no idea what you personally think a gangbanger is, however, I see them in Crossroads every time I go there. I am nearly a lifelong (so far) resident of south Oklahoma City as well, and have followed the history of that mall. You are also entitled to your opinion, however, you are very wrong. I reccomend you drive down Crenshaw in the Los Angeles area and look at the local residents, then compare them to Crossroads' main clientelle. You will see similarities. Plus. I do not "hate" anything. Do I dislike the southside? yes. However, I do not "hate" it. Plus, it has not "colored" my views.

Mra...Why don't you just come out and say there are scary Mexicans at Crossroads...Basically the picture you are drawing

[mranderson]

Mra...Why don't you just come out and say there are scary Mexicans at Crossroads...Basically the picture you are drawing

I know the difference between black people and Mexicans, sir. They mostly are NOT Mexican.

[PUGalicious]

So you don't like those scary "black people" being at Crossroads?

[okclee]

I too am a true southside resident, grew up near sw 44th and Blackwelder. Then lived with my family at sw 48th and May. I worked at Crossroads Mall a few different occassions, and have shopped there thousand of times.

So I say that Crossroads Mall is not a safe place for anyone who is not prepared. In recent years I have been jumped and robbed in the parking lot and another time I witnessed a shooting (nobody was killed). Neither of these cases made any news either on TV or newspaper.

There are all types at Crossroads Mall that are the troublemakers.

[SoonerDave]

There's not a mall in this town (or most any other) that hasn't had some sort of parking-lot mugging, robbery, or other criminal activity. The first gangsta-related shooting I recall getting a lot of notoriety around here several years ago was at the pure, pristine, revered Penn Square Mall, but I digress.

Respectfully easing the discussion back on topic, I still hope to find either affirmative confirmation or refutation of the subject in the thread - whether the landwork ongoing at SW 89th and Western is, in fact, a new Target store...if anyone hears, let us know..

-soonerdave

[Pete]

Just you know, several malls out here in California -- in nicer areas -- have started to ban teens or highly restrict their presence.

It's all a function of families not taking responsibility for their kids, so they all congregate at the mall where they frequently get into trouble.


And as far as gang-bangers at Crossroads, I run a nonprofit in Los Angeles that deals with at-risk teens and gang-related issues. I can assure you that 98% of kids that look like they are in a gang are not.

[soonerliberal]

I guess my only question about this is why not farther south and west? The demographics only get more impressive in that direction. To me, it seems like Target would be better suited having a store at 134th and Western, Penn, or May.
Just my two cents.

[okclee]

I guess my only question about this is why not farther south and west? The demographics only get more impressive in that direction. To me, it seems like Target would be better suited having a store at 134th and Western, Penn, or May.
Just my two cents.

I agree with you Sooner...........I am not that big of a fan of the SW 89 street. That street is totally messed up. There is a mix of everything and every type of building in that area (between Penn and I-35). The planning and development for 89th street has been very poor in the past and it appears that there are no restricitons.

If Target were to develop in the rumored area, I would hope that they could get the other businesses to clean up. The Hobby Lobby shopping area has almost no landscaping and the parking lot is old and dirty. Then you have the old stripmall on the north-east corner behind the Carl's jr that looks hideous.